Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

The sump water level is only 5"below the tee/bulkhead center. If I cut the standpipe at 1" below the sump water level then I'll be eliminating the valve. I guess I could add reducers at the end of the pipe if adjustment is needed.

The caps are air tight by using teflon tape and snugging down on the turns.

I put my hand under the pipes, after noticing the water seemed to be coming only thru the open channel.

I'll double check on the cap seal & cut off the standpipe 1" below the sump water level.

Thanks AGAIN. Jim
 
on my system, being an internal overflow, What would the optimal drop the water should fall over the weir. Im guessing I can adjust it by making the PVC shorter or taller.
 
jimnrose said:
The sump water level is only 5"below the tee/bulkhead center. If I cut the standpipe at 1" below the sump water level then I'll be eliminating the valve. I guess I could add reducers at the end of the pipe if adjustment is needed.

The caps are air tight by using teflon tape and snugging down on the turns.

I put my hand under the pipes, after noticing the water seemed to be coming only thru the open channel.

I'll double check on the cap seal & cut off the standpipe 1" below the sump water level.

Thanks AGAIN. Jim
Click to expand...

Your adjustment valve is below the water line in the sump? That is certainly not ideal :)

Can you post some photos? Without a valve, the system will not be adjustable.
 
tat2shawn said:
on my system, being an internal overflow, What would the optimal drop the water should fall over the weir. Im guessing I can adjust it by making the PVC shorter or taller.
Click to expand...

The less fall, the less chance of noise. I would shoot for an inch or so. Becuase your standpipes are vertical through the bottom of the box, you have the luxury of adjusting them to suit your needs :)
 
Beananimal, you ask for pictures but that's another task I havn't tackled.

The sump is adjacent to the display (display is a see thru but the sump is in a cabinet (wall to wall cabinets) adjacent to the display tank but 7" lower. The bulkhead fittiing is 2.5" from the top of the display and the 1.25"tee is another 2" drop. There is a 3.5" of pipe to the valve & the water level is 3" below the tee. I could cut off the 3.5" pipe 1" below the tee (to remove the valve) and add a coupling (but not welded) to bring the pipe 1" below the water level. If I need a valve I could reinstall one but it would only be about 1.5" higher than the present one.

Hopefully I relayed the set-up OK. Guess I better learn how to use photobucket before long BUT after I get this system flowing like a silent river.

Take care, Jim
 
Beananimal, AGAIN you have come thru. I cut off the siphon standpipe ( which eliminated the valve) and the flow is now in the siphon pipe. There is no flow control & the water level is only 1.5" in the o/f box ((about only a 1/4" before the elbows start drawing water). I was going to use reducers on the siphon pipe to cut back flow but decided to try increasing the siphon tube (greater than 1" below the water leve)l & it works.

Another one of your overflow systems in use. I wonder how many are in operation at this time.

THANKS, Jim:clown:
 
Beananimal, I got it; bye gollie, I got it. It wasn't the depth of the siphon tube but the reduced area thru the gate valve. When I eleminated the gate and shortened the siphon pipe to 1" belw the water, the flow was finally in the siphon pipe but the water level in the o/f box wasn't high enough. I went back to the siphon tube being 6.5" below the sump water level (but w/o the valve) and there was no change from the 1" depth. I then looked inside the valve and the tube diameter is 1.125" diameter (down from 1.5"). Thats a 45% reduction in area. So I added a 1.5" 90 elbow to the 1" siphon pipe & the water level in the o/f box is now exactly where I want it (2.5"). The start-up is great [open channel does it's job and the emergency elbow doesn't come into play which means there is extra reserve].
In my case where there is a very short drop from the o/f box to the sump water (6/5") the flow rate is very sensitive to pipe area & direction.

That's it for me taking up your time.

Until next tim, enjoy. Jim
 
Your observations are correct, let me help explain what is going on (in case you or others are interested.

The flow rate of the siphon is directly proportional to the head on the siphon. The positive head is the distance between the suction pool's surface and the surface of the discharge pool. That is, the the distance between the surface of the water in the overflow box and the surface of the water in the sump.

Restrictions in the plumbing (friction) and turbulence caused by the plumbing subtract from the overall head.

In your setup the actual vertical head is small enough that slight changes in pipe configuration contribute a significant amount to the total head of the system.

I am curious to see how the long term stability of the siphon level plays out. I suspect you will be fine, as the system is pretty much set and forget. You have set it via manipulating the pipe configuration instead of a valve.

I am glad the system is working as designed :)
 
I just had a shrimp go down the full siphon and mess up the flow until he got crushed by the gate valve and passed through as I was opening and closing the valve. Is anyone putting something over the intake pipes to keep this from happening? I liked that shrimp.
 
I'm new at this but have the elbows 1/8" above the o/f box bottom and put 1/8" groves `/4" high along the circumference just like the photos beananimal shows. If a shrimp got in the o/f box, it probably wouldn't squeeze the groves. Jim
 
jimnrose said:
I'm new at this but have the elbows 1/8" above the o/f box bottom and put 1/8" groves `/4" high along the circumference just like the photos beananimal shows. If a shrimp got in the o/f box, it probably wouldn't squeeze the groves. Jim
Click to expand...

I may be able to squeeze in a fitting to get it lower but it won't be easy.
 
Yoki,

A "tap" is a tool used to cut threads into a pre-drilled hole. NPT is a designation for a type of thread. We need to use a NPT tap because the threads on the John Guest fittings (and other standard pipe threads) are NPT :)
 
JTL, for a 1/8" clearance, there is an interference when the elbow is rotated into the bulkhead fittings, so it's necessary to file the outside edge of the elbow flange, (at the oppising sides) that are perpendicular to the rotational axis. I hope I explained but if not you will see the inteference points when you try to screw in the elbow. Jim
 
Hey Bean :) Now I get it! I was looking at my 3/8" tap and wondered how it would work with a 9/16" drill bit. Because it's not NTP!! Thanks again for the clarification.

Also, I was reading through all posted messges and wanted to know if you could give out a list of rules we need to follow for your system. I'm almost at the point of mounting my sump with acrylic and then the plumbing will follow. I really wanna get this right.

Again, thanks!
 
I'm in the process of doing my plumbing. My plumbing is going down one floor about a 9 ft drop, where would the best placement be for the ball valve on the full siphon? More toward the sump or does it not matter? Thanks
 
For a drop that far, the valve should be near the sump end. The further the water falls, the faster it falls and the more pull it creates on the water above it. At some point the pull is more than the water can handle and cavitation results. We can use a form of the Bernoulli equation to figure out how far away the valve can be from the pipes discharge, but rest assured 9 vertical feet is going to be pushing it :)
 
Im not to savvy with the whole Bernoulli equation thing..LOL
How far from the discharge at the sump end of the full siphon should I be with the ball valve? Would between 1.5 to 2.5' work?

FYI, its not at a straight vertical drop about 3 to 4" is at a 45 degree angle which is at the lower part of the run.
 
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