Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

Hi. I'm wondering if its possible to have the three return lines drain into a larger return line, which then goes to the sump. Will this affect the siphon? I imagine it will make the siphon less powerful since it will shorten the amount of pipe involved.
 
TheCoralReef731 said:
Hi. I'm wondering if its possible to have the three return lines drain into a larger return line, which then goes to the sump. Will this affect the siphon? I imagine it will make the siphon less powerful since it will shorten the amount of pipe involved.
Click to expand...


This will introduce air into the full siphon drainline. The full siphon is not supposed to have air in the line at all. With the three pipes (siphon, air/water mix, and dry emergency) joining, the air in the open channel will mix with the water in the siphon line, and the two combined will draw air into the dry emergency as well, making quite a mess of things. The system is designed to operate with the three lines separate.

Jim
 
reefermad619 said:
Are you running an internal or external overflow? If internal, are you running the 1.25":1" street ells, or just 1" all the way around steets? I found some regulat 1" streets at Lowes for like $0.60 and I just want to make sure they'll work. Thanks.
Click to expand...


I use an internal overflow box (coast to coast style). I used regular, non sanitary PVC on my setup. The "T" is not of the sanitary type and the elbow(s) are all regular threaded elbows (Male thread into bulkhead). Because I was using 1", I was not able to use the sanitary stuff (lowes only sells sanitary fittings down to 1.25, IIRC)
 
MeuserReef said:
I use an internal overflow box (coast to coast style). I used regular, non sanitary PVC on my setup. The "T" is not of the sanitary type and the elbow(s) are all regular threaded elbows (Male thread into bulkhead). Because I was using 1", I was not able to use the sanitary stuff (lowes only sells sanitary fittings down to 1.25, IIRC)
Click to expand...



:thumbsup:
 
uncleof6 said:
This will introduce air into the full siphon drainline. The full siphon is not supposed to have air in the line at all. With the three pipes (siphon, air/water mix, and dry emergency) joining, the air in the open channel will mix with the water in the siphon line, and the two combined will draw air into the dry emergency as well, making quite a mess of things. The system is designed to operate with the three lines separate.

Jim
Click to expand...

What if I introduce the lines into the main line using a U trap, similar to those under sinks? I believe that may keep air out of the pipes, right?

I kinda doubt my above idea will work, so another question i have is if the main siphon return can be split into 3 or 4 separate returns, each going to a different area of the sump. Is that possible?
 
Part A: same issue.

Part B: Against my better judgment, this begs the question "WHY?"
Drains drop into skimmer section (my emergency drops into the return section) fuge can be fed from the return pump line, as well as reactors etc................?

Jim
 
I'm about ready to start my build for this system. I was wondering somthing though. I want my internal overflow to be black. I have a glass tank, so I know I need the overflow made of glass to stick to the glass tank. What I want to do is have a 1 piece box made out of acrylic (4 sides and 1 bottom) drill through the back of the box and have it anchored down by my bulkheads. I know this is possible, but is it safe to add this extra pressure to the bulkead? I think it will be because the overflow should float in the water and have minimal water inside it. I thought I would ask the pros and see what they think. Thanks.
 
reefermad619 said:
I'm about ready to start my build for this system. I was wondering somthing though. I want my internal overflow to be black. I have a glass tank, so I know I need the overflow made of glass to stick to the glass tank. What I want to do is have a 1 piece box made out of acrylic (4 sides and 1 bottom) drill through the back of the box and have it anchored down by my bulkheads. I know this is possible, but is it safe to add this extra pressure to the bulkead? I think it will be because the overflow should float in the water and have minimal water inside it. I thought I would ask the pros and see what they think. Thanks.
Click to expand...

It should be fine. Don't forget the extra gaskets.......

Jim
 
Just for the record, on a coast to coast overflow, you are safe using silicone to attach acrylic to glass. Since the box is only submerged a few inches, the water pressure is minimal. I have an acrylic box siliconed in place using some good Momentive Black silicone. All is well.
 
MeuserReef said:
Just for the record, on a coast to coast overflow, you are safe using silicone to attach acrylic to glass. Since the box is only submerged a few inches, the water pressure is minimal. I have an acrylic box siliconed in place using some good Momentive Black silicone. All is well.
Click to expand...

My box will not be coast-to-coast. Tank is 48" long and the overflow will be 36" long. This way I have room for some K2s in the corners.
 
Just wanted to drop a Thank You to the responses I got here. I have Beans system running now, and if it wasn't for the "ripple" effect on the waters surface, I wouldn't know it was running. (some bad phone pics in my albums).

Great design, easy and cheap to implement, and totally silent!

Thanks again all,
/D
 
uncleof6 said:
Part A: same issue.

Part B: Against my better judgment, this begs the question "WHY?"
Drains drop into skimmer section (my emergency drops into the return section) fuge can be fed from the return pump line, as well as reactors etc................?

Jim
Click to expand...

I'm trying to do something like Mark's (Melev) setup. His return goes mostly to his skimmer section, but some water goes to the refugium. However, I believe he is using a regular durso.
 
TheCoralReef731 said:
What if I introduce the lines into the main line using a U trap, similar to those under sinks? I believe that may keep air out of the pipes, right?

I kinda doubt my above idea will work, so another question i have is if the main siphon return can be split into 3 or 4 separate returns, each going to a different area of the sump. Is that possible?
Click to expand...

Splitting the siphon to different areas could easily have the effect of making the flow rate unstable, as it will be affected by the dynamic conditions at each of the outlets.

Using a TRAP changes the entire dynamic of the system, as does dumping the outlfows into a single large pipe. A single pipe large enough to not interact with the standpipes tuning would be fine.. That would mean that the entire COMMON pipe needs to be open channel flow. The needed diameter will be a function of the length and pitch of the pipe.
 
BeanAnimal said:
Splitting the siphon to different areas could easily have the effect of making the flow rate unstable, as it will be affected by the dynamic conditions at each of the outlets.

Using a TRAP changes the entire dynamic of the system, as does dumping the outlfows into a single large pipe. A single pipe large enough to not interact with the standpipes tuning would be fine.. That would mean that the entire COMMON pipe needs to be open channel flow. The needed diameter will be a function of the length and pitch of the pipe.
Click to expand...

Thanks BeanAnimal and Jim. So, if my siphon pipe is 2", then I would need a very large common pipe. hmm...I'm starting to think this isn't such a good idea.
 
I was at Lowe's looking at true unoin ball valves. I heard they were expensive so I was surprised when they were not as expensive as I've seen online. Can someone tell me the difference between this true unoin ball valve from Lowes ($15): http://www.lowes.com/pd_209665-33599-P200U-40%2B1%2B1%25252F2%2522_0_?productId=3132373&Ntt=true%20union%20ball%20valve&Ntk=i_products&pl=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?newSearch=true$Ntt=true%20union%20ball%20valve$y=0$x=0

and this one from flexpvc.com (see the 1.5" version for $39.54): http://www.flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=9908889.6004*Cq2NO6&product=PVC-BallValves-TrueUnion

Usually I can buy most things online for cheaper than the big retail stores. So, I'm thinking I must be missing something???
 
The ones at Lowes work great - and are adjustable. The ones from Flex PVC appear to be schedule 80 which is a heavier duty valve, designed for higher working pressures. More than what you can make use of in an aquarium plumbing job

Lowes!

T
 
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