Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[montipora80]

Ok cool thank you i'll use your advice, I been looking at this tank for some time now with my drill and bits trying to figure it out so I don't mess up LOL. Keep us updated it's looking good!!!

Thanks,Pete

 

[slammin]

jb61264, tank/plumbing looks great!

Bean, i'm still having troubles finding that exact spot where the excess water going into the open drain is quiet. i'm thinking either i have a pin hole leak somewhere which is making it difficult to dial in...(although after running the system for an hour or so there were NO bubbles in the sump)

what if i used a gate valve? i think i may have too, as i cant seem adjust that extra millimeter on the ball valve that is required...

 

[BeanAnimal]

A gate valve may help.... but you bigger problem is the length of the drop between the display and the sump. You may have to work with the configuration of the open channel to prevent the water from turbulantly falling through the pipe. How much noise is it making? How much flow is going through it?

 

[slammin]

im running a blueline 55 return, which is only 700gph at most at 10-12ft.

Once the siphon has started, there really isnt that gushing noise anymore even in the open chanel its not a water falling noise, more like a slight gurgle type sound...it's pretty close to silent if i could get rid of the air being sucked in noise...

this is why i was thinking there was a little too much water going down the open chanel....and with the ball valve i can;t tweak it that ever so slightly to adjust the flow down that pipe...

 

[BeanAnimal]

The gurgling sound is likely due to the water bouncing off of the turns on the pipe and partially blocking the flow, causing turbulance in the pipe (and thus causing the sucking sounds). Maybe replacing the hard pipe on the open channel with spa-flex will help. Reducing the flow in the open channel or upsizing the pipe will also help. Using an air-line on the cap will reduce the audibility of the sucking noises as compared to just an open hole... On the same note, the airline in the open channel cap is to be double back over to create the fail-safe anyway

 

[jb61264]

What's up with the two extra gate valves over the fuge? I was thinking of puting an extra ball valve with a hose barb in it to help with my water changes. Is that what those are for?

Here's my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1619337
should probably keep the focus of posts here on the overflow I put them in so I could add reactors in the future if I wanted/needed to. To be honest, I bought a BRS reactor but run it off a separate MaxiJet pump and probably won't end up using the gate valves..but they are there just in case now

 

[nanafish]

I have this failsafe overflow on my tank. I did a water change today and now the water is above the down-turned elbows and running into the '3rd' elbow. It was not like this before. I had even tried dumping in some water from a pitcher near the elbows hoping to purge the air in the lines. It has been over an hr and the water level is the same. Water is coming through the pipe in the sump as I can see the water swirling in the compartment. How do I fix this?

 

[jb61264]

I have this failsafe overflow on my tank. I did a water change today and now the water is above the down-turned elbows and running into the '3rd' elbow. It was not like this before. I had even tried dumping in some water from a pitcher near the elbows hoping to purge the air in the lines. It has been over an hr and the water level is the same. Water is coming through the pipe in the sump as I can see the water swirling in the compartment. How do I fix this?

are you certain that you have your open channel pipe operating correctly?...the tubing coming from the open channel pipe should become immersed when the level gets to a point before the upturned elbow starts taking on water thereby creating a closed pipe and taking on more flow.

Do you have a ball valve on your closed pipe?...have you adjusted it to open all the way up and then back it down again? Regardless, your open channel pipe should be going "closed" and handling all the flow..what is the flow rate of your return pump?

 

[jesserettele]

Hey Bean and all who have contributed. I enjoyed reading through these 100+ pages of posts as I am in the process of setting up a 75 disply with a 75 sump/fuge. I like your thoughts and design criteria of fail safe, quiet, set and forget, no air bubbles, easy clean, Bean drain system.

Do you have any small detail changes or updates/modifications to your original design from 2 years ago that I could incorporate into the install that I will be doing in the near future?

I noticed in your gallery on your website that the drain system on your in-wall tank has air nozzles on all three drains with air lines on two of them. Is this an update or where those the research trials that determined your fail safe method?

Thanks for sharing this reproducable drain system that is clearly successful.

Sorry to do this but BUMP for above and clarification below;

I use 1" pipe all the way around, except for where I split my return at the base of my tank to the two corners..at that point I reduce down to 3/4".

Do you have a ball valve on your closed pipe?...have you adjusted it to open all the way up and then back it down again? Regardless, your open channel pipe should be going "closed" and handling all the flow..what is the flow rate of your return pump?

Originally posted by Bean was to use 1.5" plumbing with the exception of the 1" bulkheads (could be increased depending on design). I see some using 1" plumbing and others sticking to the original design. Does this (has this) made any differences good or bad?

Are there any modifications to the original design? I know that this is not an exact science but I would like to get the most optimal configuration since I haven't gone shopping yet.

Also what is the best ball valve or gate valve as far as being able to fine tune flow for the closed full siphon drain?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Originally Posted by jesserettele
Do you have any small detail changes or updates/modifications to your original design from 2 years ago that I could incorporate into the install that I will be doing in the near future?

I noticed in your gallery on your website that the drain system on your in-wall tank has air nozzles on all three drains with air lines on two of them. Is this an update or where those the research trials that determined your fail safe method?

No real changes in the system. Some people have trouble getting the siphon to start because they submerge the discharge too deep into the sump. The open channel wier can be moved up slightly to ensure that the siphon kicks in first. On a "through the back" setup, this means moving the open channel hole up in relation to the siphon. In a "through the bottom" setup this simply means raising the level of the open channel elbow.

If you have small fish, a lid for the overflow box will help create a "slot" to prevent fish from going over the falls.

I built all 3 standpipes the same when I set the system up. The initial setup was to be a DURSO style, but I soon realized that it came nowhere close to being quiet, stable or safe. I would still add a valve and union to each standpipe just in case I needed to remove one or shut the flow off for some reason.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by Bean was to use 1.5" plumbing with the exception of the 1" bulkheads (could be increased depending on design). I see some using 1" plumbing and others sticking to the original design. Does this (has this) made any differences good or bad?

Are there any modifications to the original design? I know that this is not an exact science but I would like to get the most optimal configuration since I haven't gone shopping yet.

Also what is the best ball valve or gate valve as far as being able to fine tune flow for the closed full siphon drain?

The larger diameter pipe has less frictional loss with regard to the siphon. It helps prevent blockage with the emergency and allows for higher quiet flow in the open channel. Let me be more specific with regard to the open channel... The larger the pipe diamter, the more water it can handle without creating a turbulant and noisy partial siphon.

A gate valve may offer a bit more in the way of tuning... but honestly the system only needs tuned once... so it is not worth the extra cost in most cases.

 

[jesserettele]

[/I]

No real changes in the system. Some people have trouble getting the siphon to start because they submerge the discharge too deep into the sump. The open channel wier can be moved up slightly to ensure that the siphon kicks in first. On a "through the back" setup, this means moving the open channel hole up in relation to the siphon. In a "through the bottom" setup this simply means raising the level of the open channel elbow.

If you have small fish, a lid for the overflow box will help create a "slot" to prevent fish from going over the falls.

I built all 3 standpipes the same when I set the system up. The initial setup was to be a DURSO style, but I soon realized that it came nowhere close to being quiet, stable or safe. I would still add a valve and union to each standpipe just in case I needed to remove one or shut the flow off for some reason.

The larger diameter pipe has less frictional loss with regard to the siphon. It helps prevent blockage with the emergency and allows for higher quiet flow in the open channel. Let me be more specific with regard to the open channel... The larger the pipe diamter, the more water it can handle without creating a turbulant and noisy partial siphon.

A gate valve may offer a bit more in the way of tuning... but honestly the system only needs tuned once... so it is not worth the extra cost in most cases.

Great input and feedback. I will try to find this thread and post some pics once I get plumbed up. Many thanks Bean!

 

[snaza]

Hi Bean,

My new setup uses an external overflow. I assume the principles are the same but the plumbing would be a bit different. The syphon will be under water level in the overflow box with a strainer. what sets the water level in the overflow? the emergency will just be an open pipe. the other one will be a durso style i guess with the air tube in the top. I was only planing on putting a ball valve on the syphon and leave the other 2 as open pipes. is that ok? I was also thinking about using spa flex. Any issues with that?

thanks

Aaron

 

[Steve_B]

those things that raise the water in the overflow chamber are WAY to dangerous in my opinion, unless you would like a lot of salt water all over the floor in the event of something going wrong. Fill it with bioballs, instant fix, absolutely no potential for any problem. I have them in a 30" tall tank about
6' behind me right now. I hear no water falling AT ALL, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING:beer:


BTW, I only read a few posts of this topic. I don't know if my method was brought up or not.

 

[nanafish]

All channels are open. I have union ball valves on the drain pipes. I tried opening and closing then opening the valve back up again again. My return pump is 1300gph. It is hooked up to 2 3/4" Sea Swirls. It all started when I drained out some water to do a water change. Up to that time, the water in the overflow was barely that of a 1/2". Now it is covering the 2 down- facing elbows. Does the piece of airline tubing need to be submerged deeply in water?

 

[BeanAnimal]

those things that raise the water in the overflow chamber are WAY to dangerous in my opinion, unless you would like a lot of salt water all over the floor in the event of something going wrong. Fill it with bioballs, instant fix, absolutely no potential for any problem. I have them in a 30" tall tank about
6' behind me right now. I hear no water falling AT ALL, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING:beer:


BTW, I only read a few posts of this topic. I don't know if my method was brought up or not.

Steve, this thread is about a standpipe system that is silent and fail-safe and easily configured for any reasonable flow rate or tank size. The entire point of the system that will not cause a flood under any reasonable or oddball circumstance.

Respectfully, it would be helpful if you took a bit of time to read the thread and gain context before you offered advice or comment on the safety of the system or alternatives to the system.

 

[BeanAnimal]

All channels are open. I have union ball valves on the drain pipes. I tried opening and closing then opening the valve back up again again. My return pump is 1300gph. It is hooked up to 2 3/4" Sea Swirls. It all started when I drained out some water to do a water change. Up to that time, the water in the overflow was barely that of a 1/2". Now it is covering the 2 down- facing elbows. Does the piece of airline tubing need to be submerged deeply in water?

I don't know that the system was ever running properly to begin with. 1/2" of water in the overflow box means that air was being drawin into your standpipes. The elbows should be covered.

Why is it not running like it was before? Who knows... but it sounds like you have a blockage somewhere. Please don't take this the wrong way, but it would be a good idea if you strted from square one both at page (1) of the original thread AND the project page at my website. Read and re-read until you fully understand how the system works. I think it will help you see what is not working and/or explain to us what you think is happening.

 

[uncleof6]

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[teesquare]

!!!

T

 

[jb61264]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it would be a good idea if you strted from square one both at page (1) of the original thread AND the project page at my website. Read and re-read until you fully understand how the system works. I think it will help you see what is not working and/or explain to us what you think is happening.

Excellent advice really...when I first decided to use this system, I spent a couple days going over the original design on the first few pages and reading the entire thread...I believe it contributed greatly to the success I have had with this excellent design