Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[BeanAnimal]

90 gal with with 1.5" drains up and running last night. It is so quiet (just a slight trickle of water in the open drain. I am having a bit of trouble getting it to restart at times. It seems like the siphon drain is not purging it's air and the open drain is taking most of the flow. Only after fiddling around with the ball valve on the siphon drain does it seem to kick in. I am (almost 100%) positive that there is no air leaking in the siphon drain, so any ideas why this might be happening? The siphon drain terminates about an inch into the sump. Otherwise, this drain system is amazing.

Are any air bubbles being ejected from the siphon standpipe during operation? You should not have to make any adjustments to get the system started. Is there a chance that the open channel standpipe is lower than the siphon standpipe?

In any case, drilling a few small holes in the siphon standpipe at the water surface in the sump can help to ensure that the air is purged easily.

Can you post photos?

 

[noobtothereef]

hey bean i would like to add some stuff, i just got done putting my plumbing together on my 120 with the 1.5" bean system, my original plan was to have about 700gph throught the sump, but at 700gph the 1.5" siphon , the valve has to be almost completely closed and is hard to adjust, with more flow at 1500gph and above it is much easier to adjust and takes about 30 seconds, i am now stepping up to a reeflo dart return pump , this siphon system is pretty bad a$$ , i put 2 1800gph sump pumps in my sump to see if it would handle it, and it did with ease, even had the valve on the siphon about 1/2 closed, very quiet also.

 

[BeanAnimal]

hey bean i would like to add some stuff, i just got done putting my plumbing together on my 120 with the 1.5" bean system, my original plan was to have about 700gph throught the sump, but at 700gph the 1.5" siphon , the valve has to be almost completely closed and is hard to adjust, with more flow at 1500gph and above it is much easier to adjust and takes about 30 seconds, i am now stepping up to a reeflo dart return pump , this siphon system is pretty bad a$$ , i put 2 1800gph sump pumps in my sump to see if it would handle it, and it did with ease, even had the valve on the siphon about 1/2 closed, very quiet also.

Yes... 700 GPH siphoned through a 1.5 bulkhead and pipe is just a trickle. Is it not amazing how broad a flow range this type of setup will safely and quietly handle?

 

[Russter]

Are any air bubbles being ejected from the siphon standpipe during operation? You should not have to make any adjustments to get the system started. Is there a chance that the open channel standpipe is lower than the siphon standpipe?

In any case, drilling a few small holes in the siphon standpipe at the water surface in the sump can help to ensure that the air is purged easily.

Can you post photos?

There are now air bubbles that I can see coming from the siphon standpipe during operation. There is a slight chance that the open channel standpipe is slightly lower (maybe a mm or 2). I am at work now but will post pics when I get home tonight. And just so I am clear...a few drilled holes just above the water surface of the sump or right at the water surface. Everything is glued in at this point and I don't want to screw it up. Thanks for the quick reply.

 

[reefer_man_mike]

The 2.75" hole should be enough, but drilling a secone one would be ideal. The setup as described with the 1" bulkheads will work just fine for your needs. The external overflow box only needs to be large enough to accomodate the standpipes. Check the example photos from GlassReef, Uncleof6 and others.

does just the bulkheads have to be 1" or can the standpipes in the external box be 1" as well? And then back to 1.5 draining on the outside?

Siphon = 1" bulkhead
open channel = 1"
Emergency = 1.5" bulkhead

 

[biecacka]

i have 2 1.5 bulkheads in the back pane of my tank. it was drilled post buy with both overflows being elbows w a strainer on them. i have a small hole drilled on the top of both drain caps to reduce the noise in the pipes. i still hear a little bit of noise in the pipe though. i was wondering if there was a good way to silence them
thanks

 

[das75]

DAS, there is a herbie thread...

oops, sorry. mixed this up with the ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK thread, subscribed to both.

 

[teesquare]

You are welcome here Das - you might even learn how to make a better overflow than a Herbie!:fun2:
T

 

[BeanAnimal]

There are now air bubbles that I can see coming from the siphon standpipe during operation. There is a slight chance that the open channel standpipe is slightly lower (maybe a mm or 2). I am at work now but will post pics when I get home tonight. And just so I am clear...a few drilled holes just above the water surface of the sump or right at the water surface. Everything is glued in at this point and I don't want to screw it up. Thanks for the quick reply.

You will not screw it up

Just above the water surface of the sump level during normal operation.

However if you have air bubbles in the siphon, then it either has a leak, or it is sucking air at the intake.

 

[BeanAnimal]

You are welcome here Das - you might even learn how to make a better overflow than a Herbie!:fun2:
T

Nah... DAS makes no bones about telling people that this setup is useless complication and that a Herbie is all that is needed

To each their own

 

[uncleof6]

Just some more example S&FOS drawings, a 120 internal/external with blueline pump that was mentioned a while ago, and a 337 gallon custom-- there is a render of the cabinetry in the sketchup thread.... ok so I been bored the last couple of days.......

Jim

 

[Russter]

You will not screw it up

Just above the water surface of the sump level during normal operation.

However if you have air bubbles in the siphon, then it either has a leak, or it is sucking air at the intake.

Ok, upon further inspection, I think I can see a few very small bubbles coming from the siphon standpipe. It must be sucking in a bit of air from somewhere. Is there a way to reseal the plumbing to make sure it is airtight while it is still attached? I was thinking maybe a thin bead of silicone or would more glue do a better job?
Because water is plowing at a pretty quick rate over the weir, is it possible that air is injecting at the downturned elbow in the overflow?

 

[BeanAnimal]

It is hard to say where the bubbles are coming from... But, yes they can get sucked into the intake if there are bubbles being generated due to the rapid flow in the overflow box.

Have you let the system puirge the air on its own after restart (without fiddling with the valves)? It can take 5 minutes or so sometimes.

 

[Russter]

Have you let the system puirge the air on its own after restart (without fiddling with the valves)? It can take 5 minutes or so sometimes.

Not since I drilled the holes above the sump water level. I got home from work yesterday and then I had to watch Canada lose the hockey game at the Olympics, then it was off to bed. I will be testing tonight. Just wanted to know if I have to get more glue or silicone or whatever on my way home from work.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Not since I drilled the holes above the sump water level. I got home from work yesterday and then I had to watch Canada lose the hockey game at the Olympics, then it was off to bed. I will be testing tonight. Just wanted to know if I have to get more glue or silicone or whatever on my way home from work.

Test it as is and see how it runs. Silicone is pretty useless with PVC plumbing. Regular solvent cement does not do much for pinholes either. The thicker Red_hot or rain-n-shine PVC cements may be of use of there is a small pinhole.

I live in Pittsburgh... Loved to see the US win, but also loved to see Crosby and the others play... Malkin had awesome game as well.

 

[Russter]

It was a really good game. Miller was amazing. If it wasn't for him, I think Canada should have probably won.

 

[Capslock118]

I have a couple questions - I appologize if this was already addressed, I did not read all 40 pages of this thread.

prefer to have the strainers touch the bottom of the overflow box. I used a table saw to fabricate them out of street elbows. No snails or fish can get into the standpipes. If your overflow box is deeper, then standard bulkhead strainers or those from a place aquaticeco can be used.

Doesnt the strainers restrict water flow, especially if its at the bottom of the overflow box? Used a table saw? Yikes, that sounds dangerously close to your fingers. What was the gap between each thread of the strainer? I think I might elect for the removable bulkhead kind.

During normal operation the valve on the Siphon (middle) standpipe is adjusted (as shown in the render above) until the water level in the overflow box rises high enough that air is not being sucked into its down-turned elbow.

if the overflow box and the siphon standpipe is deep enough, then shouldnt one would not have to worry about the water in the overflow box being high enough to prevent air being sucked into the elbow? If that's the case then the left and right pipes would be purely for emergency purposes then I'd imagine.

The Open Channel (right) standpipe is open to the air via the airline attached to it. Because air is allowed in, the standpipe will not siphon or gurgle.

I don't understand the 'why' to this statement. Why have the air line at all? Why not just have both the middle and right pipes server as siphon standpipes? Also - I thought the air is what made the system noisy to begin with - so why is introducing air keeping the system quite?

 

[Russter]

I suggest maybe reading a few more pages of the thread. All questions were answered and explained in detail.

 

[Russter]

Bean,
It appears that a couple of bubbles are entering the siphon elbow from cascading water over the weir. I think this is because my tank is slightly off level on the that side. I am going to drain and level the tank/stand and hopefully this will solve my problem. At the same time I will try to reseal all the joints to make sure there is no pinholes Thanks for your help this is a great system and sooooo quiet compared to the HOB overflow with gurglebuster that I had on my 55.

FTS

The overflow with siphon standpipe closest, then open and then emergency

Standpipes

Hard to see but siphon and open empty into left side compartment before the skimmer. Emergency empties into skimmer compartment

 

[scott26]

Looks good russter what kind of skimmer is that?