Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[scott26]

You might want to look into a herbie style overflow system then might work better for you if you go to the first page of this thread there will be a link to in a few posts down.

 

[golf nut]

BUT yeah I am proposing to run the crap that exits the tank from the surface to feed a frag tank... you honestly don't think that any protien skimmer out there handles all of the water discharge, do you?

Most will if you feed them at the correct rate.

 

[BeanAnimal]

honestly don't think that any protien skimmer out there handles all of the water discharge, do you? so sure the crap thats overflowing the walls or top surface skimate will be broken down by the natural agitation of the waterfall itself.

The idea is sound. A large linear overflow allows a high degree of surface skimming, not just "crap" but organics stripped from the water column and stuck to the surface tension of the water goin over the weir. By matching the flow rate to the capcity of the skimmer, and feeding the water directly to the skimmer, a high level of efficiency can be achieved. You give the skimmer a good shot at removing the organics before they can bind to something else in the tank, or have to be re-stripped at the surface skimmer again.

 

[coralcruze]

The idea is sound. A large linear overflow allows a high degree of surface skimming, not just "crap" but organics stripped from the water column and stuck to the surface tension of the water goin over the weir. By matching the flow rate to the capcity of the skimmer, and feeding the water directly to the skimmer, a high level of efficiency can be achieved. You give the skimmer a good shot at removing the organics before they can bind to something else in the tank, or have to be re-stripped at the surface skimmer again.

ok but I think you may not have seen this question above...

"would this standpipe work with your 3 pipe system assuming that I have one failsafe, one full siphon and one adjustable (ball valve ect)...???

http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/stand...n_stockman.htm

the reason i would like a straight standpipe like this is due to room constraints within the overflow trays and the nature of the design of my waterfall tank. I'm planning to have the pipes within the overflow trays because obviously they will never work under the tank and placing them on the outside which is the sides of the tank will detract from the overall look of the tank. I really want to silence the tank and your system does that better than any durso out there. Like you bean, having a tank that makes noise is completely out of the question. I really appreciate all of your help and hope to start the build soon and will be posing pics. again thanks."

 

[BeanAnimal]

A few things need some clarification.

The "adjustable" standpipe is the full siphon. The open channel does not get adjusted and is fully open. You can use a stockman type intake if you like. The IMPORTANT thing to remember is that unlike the Stockmand and durso setups, the AIR inlet has NOTHING to do with "TUNING" the setup and needs to be big enough so that it DOES NOT affect the flow in the standpipe. So build a Stockman but ignore the tuning procedure and put a large enough hole in it to not affect the flow. Use the fitting and hose (as shown in my design) to make the standpipe fail-over to siphon mode during a high water event.

The SIPHON standpipe can be used to feed a skimmer, of course depending on the flow that the skimmer requires. Some people have SPLIT OFF of the siphon to feed a skimmer. I can not tell you how this affects the tuning of the system (in either direct or split modes) as I have never tried it. My skimmer is 6' tall and can not be gravity fed.

 

[BradMugs]

BeanAmimal, Fantastic post - I'm trying to read the whole thing before I start asking questions but I came across one post I thought I could add to. Your 555 timing device. Great Idea but for those not electrically active I have a slightly different solution. I use a $5 light timing device. I have a number of them and have gathered a bunch of the "ON" plugs (the little things you slide in to turn the light on). When its time to feed I roll the manual switch which shuts off my pumps, feed then walk away as I know my system turns itself back on every hour 24 hours a day so the most time it's going to be off is one hour - I do check when I turn it off that it isn't going to turn right back on but even then the fish usually get enough. Great idea and YES I'm going to use it when I get my bigger tank...8^(

 

[BeanAnimal]

BeanAmimal, Fantastic post - I'm trying to read the whole thing before I start asking questions but I came across one post I thought I could add to. Your 555 timing device. Great Idea but for those not electrically active I have a slightly different solution. I use a $5 light timing device. I have a number of them and have gathered a bunch of the "ON" plugs (the little things you slide in to turn the light on). When its time to feed I roll the manual switch which shuts off my pumps, feed then walk away as I know my system turns itself back on every hour 24 hours a day so the most time it's going to be off is one hour - I do check when I turn it off that it isn't going to turn right back on but even then the fish usually get enough. Great idea and YES I'm going to use it when I get my bigger tank...8^(

Yup the light timer is one of the common poor mans feeding timers

You can also use a bathroom lamp timer. You can buy them with NC contacts that break when you twist the knob (not too common) or with NO contacts (very common) and use a 120V relay to turn them into an NC timer.

I have built an ATMEGA based feeding timer to replace the 555 timer, but have not had the time to post the project details. There is nothing wrong with the 555 feeding timer, but I like playing with microcontrollers too.

 

[coralcruze]

A few things need some clarification.

The "adjustable" standpipe is the full siphon. The open channel does not get adjusted and is fully open. You can use a stockman type intake if you like. The IMPORTANT thing to remember is that unlike the Stockmand and durso setups, the AIR inlet has NOTHING to do with "TUNING" the setup and needs to be big enough so that it DOES NOT affect the flow in the standpipe. So build a Stockman but ignore the tuning procedure and put a large enough hole in it to not affect the flow. Use the fitting and hose (as shown in my design) to make the standpipe fail-over to siphon mode during a high water event.

The SIPHON standpipe can be used to feed a skimmer, of course depending on the flow that the skimmer requires. Some people have SPLIT OFF of the siphon to feed a skimmer. I can not tell you how this affects the tuning of the system (in either direct or split modes) as I have never tried it. My skimmer is 6' tall and can not be gravity fed.

thanks for that exlination... still managed to get that wrong after reading so much of this thread and your web site, lol. question on the fitting and hose... do I need to stick to 1/4" or should I use the 3/8" stuff? does it even matter??? I think I can picture it, am I understanding that during a high water event the airlinewill fill up with water and allow for "full siphon" in that standpipe only? additionally does the loop in the airline or the length of it affect anything? I will need to install a very tight loop to keep it low profile as it will be in the shallow trays and I am thinking of having removable tray covers go over the entire system so that its completly concealed. to achieve this I will need to build all plumbing low profile. hence, wanting to use the stockman instead. thanks so much.

 

[pmoneyt]

Bean can i take a tank with dual internal overflows and create your system. each overflow has 1 1/2" & 1" in them. my plan was to emergency with the 1" and the siphin in one and the other stand pipe in the other

 

[BeanAnimal]

Bean can i take a tank with dual internal overflows and create your system. each overflow has 1 1/2" & 1" in them. my plan was to emergency with the 1" and the siphin in one and the other stand pipe in the other

In short, no. As there is no way to allow the standpipes to interact with each other.

 

[pmoneyt]

bean what about if i create a internal weir by connecting the two overflow in the middle.

 

[BeanAnimal]

That may work, depending on the depth of the box you create. A shallwo box will not help, as the pipes will still not interact. The bottom of the box needs to be deeper than the intakes of the standpipes.

 

[coralcruze]

Hey bean... since I am planning to use a stockman due to the design of my tank and overflow boxes. I am thinking that I may need to eliminate the looped airline altogether. Of course I will drill a hole at the top of the third stockman standpipe. the question that I have is...will it work if I set this third stand pipe top hight at a slightly higher level than the water level created by the second "full siphon" standpipe? so, in an emergency where the second pipe is clogged and water begins to rise it will rise to the top of the hole on the third standpipe creating a full siphon. so I guess what I'm asking is... will eliminating the airline and just tapping a hole create the same failsafe full siphon in the third standpipe?

 

[hul kogan]

I've been following this thread since I started planning my new tank last year and I learned a lot about the setup and how others were implementing it. I'd love to get some suggestions from you Bean.

The tank is 127G (w/ 75G sump) and it will be a mixed reef. I will be doing an internal weir with external overflow box, as I have seen a few others execute nicely.

1. I think sticking with 1.5" plumbing (per the original design) would be fine with this setup. Would you agree?
2. I plan to run an internal pump in the sump. I am currently looking at Mag-Drives but am open to suggestions. What size pump do you think would best fit my application? Vertical head will be around 5 feet.
3. As a piggyback to the last question, what sizes plumbing should I be looking at for the return(s)? I have 1" in my head right now.

Thanks in advance. I appreciate it!

 

[scott26]

I've been following this thread since I started planning my new tank last year and I learned a lot about the setup and how others were implementing it. I'd love to get some suggestions from you Bean.

The tank is 127G (w/ 75G sump) and it will be a mixed reef. I will be doing an internal weir with external overflow box, as I have seen a few others execute nicely.

1. I think sticking with 1.5" plumbing (per the original design) would be fine with this setup. Would you agree?
That would be able to handle your flow very easily can get up 2700 gph which you will never need.
2. I plan to run an internal pump in the sump. I am currently looking at Mag-Drives but am open to suggestions. What size pump do you think would best fit my application? Vertical head will be around 5 feet.
Mag-Drives are an okay pump many have mixed reviews about them I am in the same boat as you though looking for a new pump I have heard good things from a company called Ocean Runner they can be found online at BulkReefSupply.com and many people like the Ethiem pump buy they a limitied to a max size of 900 gph so you may need two of them to get a good flow.... as far as flow rate goes it is really up to optinion and has been debated alot some like slower flow around 5x the tank volume in order to give the skimmer more time to skim... others like myself and bean like higher volume flow around 10x the tank volume... to give the coarl plenty of flow and to make waste get blow up and out of the tank.
3. As a piggyback to the last question, what sizes plumbing should I be looking at for the return(s)? I have 1" in my head right now.
I would think 1" plumbling would be fine bean can clarify but should work out welll how many returns are you going to be doing? and is is closed loop?

Thanks in advance. I appreciate it!

Welcome

 

[uncleof6]

1.5" pipe will do a lot better than 2700 gph with a 5' drop.......

Also, hul kogan, if you use a mag drive pump, you will need 1.5" return pipe... per Danner.

Jim

 

[hul kogan]

Thanks for the thoughts and opinions scott26 and uncleof6. Much appreciated!

 

[Barfly]

Also, hul kogan, if you use a mag drive pump, you will need 1.5" return pipe... per Danner.

Jim

Huh? I don't think so. What am I missing here? I've seen a lot of mags in action and not one ever had a 1.5" return.

I have run mag drives for years and NEVER needed a 1.5" return. The outlets for the mags are either 3/4" or 1". I use whatever size the pump calls for. I believe that increasing the pipe size will decrease your max pumping height.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Increasing pipe size will increase the maximum pumping height by reducing the friction at the outlet side of the pump. Reduced friction = reduced static head

Any time you can increase pipe diameter (within reason) it will reduce the friction that the pump has to overcome to move water.

 

[uncleof6]

Huh? I don't think so. What am I missing here? I've seen a lot of mags in action and not one ever had a 1.5" return.

I have run mag drives for years and NEVER needed a 1.5" return. The outlets for the mags are either 3/4" or 1". I use whatever size the pump calls for. I believe that increasing the pipe size will decrease your max pumping height.

Danner, the maker of the mag drive pumps says 1.5" tubing is recommended for the return. It is in the instructions. I pretty much flipped the first time I heard that as well, but I read the destructions, and sure enough that is what it said.

Jim