Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[anen]

Thanks for your input, but I have already purchased 1" bulkheads. I think I will go with an overflow the length of the tank, it makes building the overflow easier.

Anen:
Just found you earlier post - 1" will work, but I think you will find 1-1/2" bulkheads that are reduced to 1"fittings in the overflow will work great. As for the size of the overflow - remember that the longer the overflow the better it will surface skim the tank. I have one that I love that is the length of the right end of the tank ( 36") and because of how my flow is set up - it works pretty well.

As well - you don't have to use gate valves...let alone sch 80 ( We are not working with any pressures that even come close to what sch 40 is built for)
I have been perfectly happy with the sch 40 TUBV's ( True Union Ball Valves) from Lowe's or Home Depot.
And regular 90's will work - but let me just add this thought:
The best scenario has been lain out plainly by Bean. Anytime you choose to compromise that design you run the risk of being less satisfied with the results.

I usually find that if I cannot justify adhering to a given method in reefkeeping ( or anything else in life) then maybe it is not the right method for me.

Not trying to frustrate you- trying to help you prevent frustration:thumbsup:

T

 

[anen]

Can someone also give a suggestion as to how small width and height wise I can go on my overflow box for a 40 breeder?

 

[scott26]

Can someone also give a suggestion as to how small width and height wise I can go on my overflow box for a 40 breeder?

You want it wide enough to fit your pvc elbows in and you want it deep enough to fit your elbows in. Also a little space from the bottom of the elbow to let water pass.

 

[TheFishMan65]

And big enough that if you have to get your hand in you can. Also consider that you may have to rebuild it (unlikely but ...) - so the bulkhead may have to come out.

 

[bigffish]

standpipes done!

standpipes done!

My stand pipe for my silent and failsafe beantastic overflow!

 

[Reeferhead]

I have a 150DD with a single overflow and two 1" bulkheads. I want to use both as drains. Obviously, I can't do Bean Animal's full design but what would be the next best thing? Siphon and Open Channel? Siphon and Fail Safe? Open Channel and Fail Safe? or something else entirely?

 

[scott26]

View attachment 111510 My stand pipe for my silent and failsafe beantastic overflow!

looks good dude!

 

[scbrooks87]

Question... Ive been through a bunch of pages here, im sure its been answered, but I didnt find it...

I have my true union ball valves for this, but my question is... When I go to put this together, should I put them as close as possible to the water's surface in the sump?

If my thought is correct, if I had them higher, the water would fill out the PVC pipe above the ball valve, but then after the valve, it would not be filling the pipe, instead, it would free fall through the pipe to the sump yeah?

Will that make a slosh or gurgle sound?

Guess im just trying to figure out my diagram :fun5:

 

[BeanAnimal]

On short drops (1' - 2') it makes little difference, but in general the valve on the siphon standpipe should be as far down the pipe as comfortable to operate and maintain.

Without getting into a lot of detail, for a long drop or a pipe that is wider AFTER the valve than it is before the valve, the water could cavitate and/or tumble and make noise.

We submerge the end of the siphon standpipe just slightly to create back pressure. This helps keep the pipe full of water and moving slow enough that it does not cavitate.

A bit more detail: Water does not compress, so the full volume of water above the above the valve gets shoved through the valve. The water speeds up as it gets shoved (pulled by gravity, if you prefer) through the restriction. When it reaches the larger pipe after the restriction, it slows down and therefore fills the pipe back up. As long as the the drop is not so long that the water falls faster than it has surface tension, then cavitation will not occur. As long as the lower pipe (below the valve) is about the same diameter as the upper pipe (above the valve) and its end is submerged 1" in the sump, then it will be full and gurgling will not occur.

The valves on the other pipes are optional, you only NEED a valve in the siphon standpipe.

 

[scbrooks87]

Thanks for the info bean! One last question that has plagued me a bit... Since my tank is glass with the black rim... i cant really make the external overflow box the same height as the tank, i can only make it as high as the rim, is this a problem?

I'm planning on a very thin internal overflow for surface skimming, through bulkheads into an external trough.

Hope it isnt a huge deal... If its a problem, what would my work-around be?

 

[anen]

For those of you with shallow tanks and coast to coast overflows, where are you putting your powerheads?

 

[buzbee_dallas]

Not enough space behind tank for stand pipes

Not enough space behind tank for stand pipes

I'm in the process of setting up an in-wall tank with the beananimal overflow. I left 6" behind the tank for the plumbing, but apparently this was not generous enough. I've already purchased Hayward 1-1/2" bulkheads (BFA1015CES) which protrude about 3+" from the rear of the tank. After adding a 1-1/2" street male adapter and a sanitary tee I need > 7" of space.

I am considering 2 solutions.

1) Keep my existing bulkheads and horizontally ell after leaving the bulkhead. I would then attach the tee to the ell.

2) Replace the bulkhead with something more compact. I would probably replace with Hayward BFA2015SES which is only 3" long. It also has a slip rather than threaded outlet which would allow me to eliminate the male adapter.

I prefer the first solution as I wouldn't have to purchase more bulkheads. But I'm concerned that it could adversely affect the proper functioning of the silent overflow. Is there a problem with adding a horizontal ell after leaving the overflow?

I'm open to other solutions as well.


FYI: This is a 240 gallon tank with a coast-to-coast internal overflow.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=111588&stc=1&d=1273258603

 

[SonsOfLeda]

I've got a 120G Oceanic Tech Tank that's drilled on the bottom for four 1" bulkheads and am trying to figure out the best overflow plumbing method to incorporate this design. I see that the concept is best shown in a coast-to-coast style overflow with holes drilled in the back wall, but am wondering if this can be modified to work with what I've got.

In keeping with the spirit of the design, three bulkheads will be used for the drain (emergency, full siphon, and open channel) and the fourth will be used for the return (Eheim 1260 - 635GPH). I'm just unsure of how to modify the T's or the up/down-turned elbows for a standard-style overflow (holes drilled on the bottom).

Am I even close here with my thinking:

• Emergency: 1" PVC drain tube extending just above normal water level (with filter to keep critters out)
• Full Siphon: 1" PVC drain tube submerged below normal water level (with filter to keep critters out)
• Open Channel: 1" Hofer Gurgle Buster style drain
• All drain channels expanded to 1.5" PVC underneath the tank.

If I'm thinking correctly, the gate valve on the siphon is adjusted until a small amount of the overflow is handled by the open channel drain, correct? Does there then need to be gate valves on the other two drains, or can simple ball valves be used?

Is this modification even possible? Has it been done before? How far below normal operating water level should the siphon channel be? How far above normal operating level should the emergency channel be? Am I actually increasing flow by expanding to 1.5" PVC below the bulkheads? In an emergency situation, I don't want the 1" internal plumbing to be my bottleneck and lead to a wet house.

Thanks for your help in advance!

- Eric

 

[BeanAnimal]

For the system to operate properly, there only needs to be a valve on the siphon standpipe. That said, the bottom of you tank is drilled. I would Put Valves on ALL THREE standpipes so that they can be shut-off.

The 1" plumbing above the bulkheads will be fine for 650GPH.
The HGB is a flow adjusting device and not suitable in its native form. The open channel must free flow without being regulated by air. If you use the HGB (or a SS or Durso for that matter) you MUST ensure that the standpipe get enough air as to not affect the flow rate. The HGB will also not siphon well in fail-safe mode. The stockman or durso style is better suited.

Now to important part of your question. The system will work as you describe, but you will get NO surface skimming and that is a huge problem. You need to have an overflow box of some kind or your tank will look like the scum covered pond down the road.

 

[SonsOfLeda]

For the system to operate properly, there only needs to be a valve on the siphon standpipe. That said, the bottom of you tank is drilled. I would Put Valves on ALL THREE standpipes so that they can be shut-off.

Good call. After I typed that, I realized that I'll be putting valves on them all anyway. In all honesty, do I need a gate valve for regulating the siphon channel, or will a set-it-and-forget-it ball valve be fine since the design itself is self-regulating after the initial set-up?

The 1" plumbing above the bulkheads will be fine for 650GPH.
The HGB is a flow adjusting device and not suitable in its native form. The open channel must free flow without being regulated by air. If you use the HGB (or a SS or Durso for that matter) you MUST ensure that the standpipe get enough air as to not affect the flow rate. The HGB will also not siphon well in fail-safe mode. The stockman or durso style is better suited.

That makes perfect sense. Since I'm fairly pinched for space, a Stockman seems to suit my needs the best. That said, in a perfect world, would a Stockman or Durso be a better open channel here (space constraints aside)? Is there another solution for an open channel that I'm not thinking of?

Now to important part of your question. The system will work as you describe, but you will get NO surface skimming and that is a huge problem. You need to have an overflow box of some kind or your tank will look like the scum covered pond down the road.

This is in an 120G Oceanic Tech Tank. All four drains are in an overflow box along the back wall that measures approximately 18" x 4". No need to worry here.

As far as increasing the plumbing size below the bulkheads, is it necessary with the amount of flow that I have? I'm trying to use the calculator on the home page, but for some reason it's not working on this computer. Will 1" PVC throughout work for me, or does one or more of the channels have to be expanded? Do I need to go all the way to 1.5", or will 1.25" be enough?

Thanks for the very quick response.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The design is set and forget. You don't really need a gate valve. Gate valves tend to work better after bio-falling with regard to movement. However they tend to NOT seal well if never used. Ball valves can sieze up if not used, but if they DO move, they WILL seal. The stems on BVs rarely leak. The stems on gate valves do tend to leak.

If it were me, i would use TRUE UNION ball valves so that they can be maintained and/or replaced.

The stockman will be fine. Carefully read the part about how the open channel becomes a fail-safe siphon. You will quickly see what will and will not work

Any time you can increase plumbing size (within reason) it is a good thing. That said, with your proposed flow, 1" should be fine. If you are going to upsize ANY of the pipe, it should be the open channel.

 

[Singularity96]

Sorry wrong topic apparently, please delete post

 

[johnnydoe]

can anyone tell me if this will work ?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Just thought i would share this overflow design, its just called "slim overflow" locally, you dont hear a sound, not alot of plumbing and can handle large amounts of water, the return lines is also integrated... here is the only crappy phone pic i have at the moment, but if anyone wants a closer look i will post some better shots tomorrow. In the pic all the plumbing is 99% done, just need to connect the return pump.

In the kindest manner, this is not the appropriate place to introduce overflow designs. This is a discussion about a specific standpipe system and its implementation and support.

If you start a new thread about the design and it proves to have merit, then people will find it

 

[BeanAnimal]

can anyone tell me if this will work ?

It can work. The siphon may be a bit harder to get started and the open channel will tend to want to siphon through the 12" or so of horizontal pipe. I would mock the system up BEFORE cutting holes in the wall so that you can make changes as needed.