Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Singularity96]

My apologies, thought it was about silent and failsave overflow systems, did not realise it was about specific standpipe system and its implementation and support

 

[SonsOfLeda]

If it were me, i would use TRUE UNION ball valves so that they can be maintained and/or replaced.

Solid advice. Great minds think alike.

The stockman will be fine. Carefully read the part about how the open channel becomes a fail-safe siphon. You will quickly see what will and will not work

After looking at the overflow again, it looks like I have room for one Durso and two straight standpipes for the full siphon and the emergency. Since transitioning to a siphon with a Durso in a fail-safe situation makes sense in my head (I've used Dursos previously), I'm going to use one for the open channel.

Going with that line of thinking, I've drawn up a quick picture of my "finalized" design. From left to right I have the full siphon, the open channel, the return, and the emergency drain. "A" is the height of the siphon tube, not including the critter guard. "B" is the height of the emergency tube.

I do need a few things cleared-up before I put it into practice.

1. How far below normal water level can I have "A" (I know deeper is good as far as keeping air out of this line, but how far is "far enough" or "too far")?
2. Will the height of "A" impact the Durso's ability to be self-priming after a restart (and thus impact this design's set-it-and-forget-it nature)?
3. If I cut "A" too short, the water level can still be increased up to the Durso by adjusting the ball valve (without effecting the performance of this design), correct?
4. How far above normal water level should "B" be? Basically, I want "B" to be at my maximum allowable water level before flood status, right?

Thanks again. You're incredibly helpful.

 

[BeanAnimal]

1) You certainly don't want a vortex. An open top pipe at 600GPH will need to be a few inches below the surface. The ball valve will adjust the height of the water in the box.

2) No the durso will flow when the water (backed up because the siphon is adjusted not to take it all) reaches the wier of the durso.

3) Correct

4) Correct

 

[SonsOfLeda]

1) You certainly don't want a vortex. An open top pipe at 600GPH will need to be a few inches below the surface. The ball valve will adjust the height of the water in the box.

So, in theory I wouldn't need a standpipe for the siphon line at all (making the height difference between the Durso and the siphon irrelevant so long as no vortex is created and a small percentage of water still flows into the Durso), correct?

 

[buzbee_dallas]

Not enough space behind tank for stand pipes

Not enough space behind tank for stand pipes

I'm in the process of setting up an in-wall 240gal tank using the beananimal overflow. I have a coast-to-coast internal overflow with 3 holes to be drilled on the rear of the tank. I had left 6" behind the tank for plumbing but apparently that wasn't generous enough. I've already purchased 1-1/2" Hayward BFA1015CES bulkheads. These bulkheads protrude 3+" from the rear of the tank. When I add a 1-1/2" street male adaptor and a 1-1/2" Sanitary tee the total protrusion out the rear of the tank is > 7". As this won't work for me, I currently as considering 2 options for rectifying my situation.

1) install a threaded ell horizontally on the output of the bulkhead. The sanitary tee would then be attached to the ell.

2) Replace the bulkeads with something smaller. Probably with Hayward BFA2015SFS which I believe is about an inch shorter than my current bulkheads. Additionally, it comes with a socket output rather than a threaded output. This would all me to eliminate the male adapter.

I would prefer to implement the first solution, as it wouldn't require purchasing any additional expensive bulkheads. However, I'm concerned that adding an additional 90 could somehow complicate the proper functioning of the silent overflow.


http://reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=111904&stc=1&d=1273512411
Any thoughts?

I'm open to other solutions too.

 

[reefermad619]

Can you trim the bulks you have? It looks like you could trim about an 1" off the bulk you have. I would use a hacksaw and make the cut in the groves of the threads. I think you'd be OK if you do this.

 

[buzbee_dallas]

Can you trim the bulks you have? It looks like you could trim about an 1" off the bulk you have. I would use a hacksaw and make the cut in the groves of the threads. I think you'd be OK if you do this.

Thanks for the suggestion reefermad. My first reaction was no I can't cut these bulkheads because they are threaded. The last 3/4" of the bulkhead has the threads. However, once you get past the threads the opening is smooth and experimentation shows that a 1-1/4" fits snugly in this space. Tell me I wouldn't be crazy to cut off the threads and glue in 1-1/4" pipe?http://reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=111907&stc=1&d=1273516730

 

[TheFishMan65]

How much room on the inside of the tank. Can you mount the bulk head in the opposite direction than originally planned?

 

[buzbee_dallas]

How much room on the inside of the tank. Can you mount the bulk head in the opposite direction than originally planned?

I only have 4 1/2" of space inside the tank. However, that is also a great idea! I can turn the bulkheads around (gasket on the outside), cut 1-1/2" off the bulkhead and use 1-1/4" fittings inside the overflow. If things leak inside the overflow it is not a big problem. Thanks FishMan.

 

[TheFishMan65]

I think you would want the gasket on the inside. Even better home depot used to sell a sheet of gasket like material for about $0.50 so I would do both.

 

[reefermad619]

Gasket on the inside. If you cut the threads, I think you'd be fine with ~1" of pipe to pipe contact. I've seen a friend of mine use less than .50" and he hasn't had any leaks... Yet.

 

[buzbee_dallas]

Gasket on the inside. If you cut the threads, I think you'd be fine with ~1" of pipe to pipe contact. I've seen a friend of mine use less than .50" and he hasn't had any leaks... Yet.

My understanding is that the gaskets always go against the flange, never against the nut. So if I put the flange on the outside of the tank the gasket will have to follow. This makes sense to me since I can see how the torque of the nut could mess up the seal.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I think you would want the gasket on the inside. Even better home depot used to sell a sheet of gasket like material for about $0.50 so I would do both.

The gasket MUST go between the bulkhead FLANGE and tank WALL. The flange can go inside or outside...

 

[chasekwe]

Bean, tomorrow I'm going to be putting together the overflow plumbing for my new system. The design is yours, of course, which is why I'm posting here.

Does it matter which way I orient the true union ball valves and the slip unions (on the vertical) compared to the direction of flow. As in, does the closing direction of the ball valve and the female vs. male threading on the slip unions work better or have to be in a certain direction for the drains and the return?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Nope... It shouldnt matter. With unions, I prefer to put the female side on the stationary piece and the male on the piece that gets removed.

 

[chasekwe]

Thanks Bean man, that's all I needed to hear. Sometimes you just want to know you're not doing something wrong...

 

[reefermad619]

My understanding is that the gaskets always go against the flange, never against the nut. So if I put the flange on the outside of the tank the gasket will have to follow. This makes sense to me since I can see how the torque of the nut could mess up the seal.

Sorry bro. I read the post wrong. I didn't see that you wanted to flip the bulk around. Bean is correct (like always).

 

[BeanAnimal]

My understanding is that the gaskets always go against the flange, never against the nut. So if I put the flange on the outside of the tank the gasket will have to follow. This makes sense to me since I can see how the torque of the nut could mess up the seal.

If the gasket goes on the "nut" side, there is no seal. The gasket seals between the nut and the tank wall, but nothing seals the threads. Water will leak between the threads and the lock nut.

 

[TheFishMan65]

I was willing to believe you were right before Bean, but I had trouble figuring out why - so thank you for explaining it.

 

[buzbee_dallas]

I only have 4 1/2" of space inside the tank. However, that is also a great idea! I can turn the bulkheads around (gasket on the outside), cut 1-1/2" off the bulkhead and use 1-1/4" fittings inside the overflow. If things leak inside the overflow it is not a big problem. Thanks FishMan.

So I cut off the threaded portion of my Hayward bulkhead and was planning on cementing a 1-1/4" street elbow to be used inside the overflow. However, with the threads cut off of the bulkhead the street elbow does not fit quite as snugly as it would into a standard socket fitting. It is difficult to judge the amount of play but I would say around 1/32". Will the PVC glue bridge this gap or can I anticipate having any problems with air leaking and causing issues with creating a siphon?