Thank you Bean!
Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
Thank you Bean!
rickztahone
New member
999,999 of those views were mine trying to get everything right, lol. Thanks BeanAnimal
ViktorVaughn
Member
Hey guys, just got done plumbing my BA yesterday and after some more reading, I wanted to run my build by you before starting it up. My initial plan was to use 45's for the drains into my sump because it isn't a straight shot from my overflow. After measuring and trying every conceivable way to implement the 45's without making it look horendous, I failed and had to plumb with 90 degree elbows instead. This introduced horizontal runs of the following length: open channel: 8" full siphon: 6" emergency: 4". These horizontal runs happen after a 30-36" vertical drop. Will this design introduce a bunch of problems for me or just on system start up purging air? I'd rather not rearrange my sump and re plumb but will if necessary. Thanks for the help.
jason2459
Well-known member
Could you put two 45's butt up together? That's what I did a few times in my setup. I don't remember why I did that instead of a couple 90's to go down and across about 12' and down to my sump in my basement. There had to be a good reason explained why earlier on in this thread that I picked up on.
And thank you BeanAnimal for this thread!! 1M+ views!!! Best thing I did for a quite and reliable drain down to my sump. If done right with coast to coast would have been the most efficient too. :thumbsup:
And thank you BeanAnimal for this thread!! 1M+ views!!! Best thing I did for a quite and reliable drain down to my sump. If done right with coast to coast would have been the most efficient too. :thumbsup:
SGT_York
New member
Viktor,
May may not that will depend on the pipe diameter and the GPH going through the siphon. It certainly will take longer to start up. Any way to make the siphon line the 4" horizontal? The siphon line is the only one with a major concern the other two the horizontal will mainly just add noise. But the siphon may not start at all. If you can't remove it with 45's minimize it. You could also try flex hose to remove it.
May may not that will depend on the pipe diameter and the GPH going through the siphon. It certainly will take longer to start up. Any way to make the siphon line the 4" horizontal? The siphon line is the only one with a major concern the other two the horizontal will mainly just add noise. But the siphon may not start at all. If you can't remove it with 45's minimize it. You could also try flex hose to remove it.
ViktorVaughn
Member
I tried the two 45's but my main limiting restriction is vertical room between bottom of overflow and sump. After bulkhead adapters and a gate valve, a 45 would put my drains into my return section.
My pipe diameter is as follows: full siphon and open channel have 1.5" standpipes adapted to the 2 1" bulkheads (1" drains) with the emergency standpipe being 1" diameter adapted to the 3/4" bulkhead. After head loss I'm guessing my return pump will push no more than 500-600 gph through the overflow. Only way to switch the siphon to 4" horizontal run would be to have it be the 3/4" drain. Looks like my only option will be to use the flex pvc which I was trying to avoid, I like the looks of hard plumbing much more. Oh well, i'll definitely sacrifice aesthetics for functionality.
On another note, I tested my overflow and plumbing for leaks and could use some help. Bulkheads were all tight and did not leak or drip when water was poured into the overflow. However, after forcing water through the standpipes quite a few small leaks could be seen. I'm pretty sure they are all occurring on the white threaded to slip adapters that screw into my bulkheads. The glued unions appear dry but the threaded union seems to leak. I applied Teflon tape to all the threads but perhaps there is a better method. After inspecting the adapters the overflow came with, the threads appear to be the same size. I went with new adapters because the ones that were included were threaded to barb hose. Also, should the adapters be screwed in really tight with a wrench or is a good hand tighten better? I'll post up a picture of my plumbing in a minute to see if that helps in regards to leaky unions.
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SGT_York
New member
Thread sealant paste works much better than teflon.
I'd also change your siphon to the 3/4" line leaving the 1.5" for your emergency.
It will handle the flow.
Also invest in a gate valve for the siphon you'll be glad you did. With bottom drilled bulkheads the horizontal run is easily mitigated by removing the siphon T and elbow and just leaving it an open pipe with strainer. The gate valve will be a lifesaver so you can properly adjust the flow. by removing the T and 90 on the siphon line you remove the actual siphon (lifting of water) that eliminates the start up time. The drain line kicks in when the water level reaches the appropriate height above the pipe opening. Doing so will allow the horizontal run to be purged immediatley. Bean added the T and 90 because he used a coast to coast overflow and needed the holes at the top of the tank side. Since that is not what you are doing the T's make no sense for the siphon line. Keep them for the open channel and emergency.
I just use elbow grease to tighten the adapters, with the paste it works. If it by chance still leaks a small turn with a wrench can help or it will crack the bulkhead, don't turn it too much.
I'd also change your siphon to the 3/4" line leaving the 1.5" for your emergency.
It will handle the flow.
Also invest in a gate valve for the siphon you'll be glad you did. With bottom drilled bulkheads the horizontal run is easily mitigated by removing the siphon T and elbow and just leaving it an open pipe with strainer. The gate valve will be a lifesaver so you can properly adjust the flow. by removing the T and 90 on the siphon line you remove the actual siphon (lifting of water) that eliminates the start up time. The drain line kicks in when the water level reaches the appropriate height above the pipe opening. Doing so will allow the horizontal run to be purged immediatley. Bean added the T and 90 because he used a coast to coast overflow and needed the holes at the top of the tank side. Since that is not what you are doing the T's make no sense for the siphon line. Keep them for the open channel and emergency.
I just use elbow grease to tighten the adapters, with the paste it works. If it by chance still leaks a small turn with a wrench can help or it will crack the bulkhead, don't turn it too much.
uncleof6
Active member
Well, the siphon should be on the 3/4" bulkhead in the first place. This is a basic "safety" concern in that the siphon be placed on the smallest bulkhead, and the emergency be placed on the larger bulkhead
Second, you do not need a valve on the dry emergency, nor on the open channel. Removing them will make running your pipe easier.
On this, the first thing you should do is reduce the number of threaded fittings in the system. Threaded fittings will always be at risk of leaking, and the fewer the better. Many want threaded fittings, so they can take the plumbing apart, but in reality, if the plumbing is done right the first time, they will never take it apart till moving the tank, or upgrading to a larger tank, and the plumbing will have to be re-done anyway.
It is not advised to use tape on threaded joints. Rather use a non-hardening thread sealant.
http://www.lascofittings.com/threads
https://www.customaquatic.com/estore/control/product/~product=PF-SPSB75-005
One of the largest problems with threaded fittings, is they are put together way too tight. Lasco provides instructions for the proper assembly of threaded fittings.
Also threaded unions should be avoided if at all possible. Every union is a possible leak point, and they are way over used in the hobby. Like I said before, the likely hood of actually taking your plumbing apart after it is finalized and the tank "live" is very slim to none. The only place they are acutally needed is at the return pump.
Horizontal runs can be unpredictable, one person will claim the system works fine with horizontal runs, others will claim they don't. I advise that they be avoided altogether, thus eliminating the variable, rather than guessing which way your system will go. In all cases, function comes before aesthetics, however, plumbing done right will seldom look horrible. It may take more thought, though. (Things such as sump design, among others.) These things should be worked out before buying/building a sump, or buying any parts for the plumbing system. It is easier to modify parts on paper than it is to modify a plumbed tank. The only way one gets painted into a corner, is by getting in a hurry, probably the number 1 problem in this hobby.
rickztahone
New member
Great advice. I will make sure I keep researching all plumbing before I hit that buy now button.
uncleof6
Active member
Good plan.
sleepydoc
Team RC
Viktor-
+1 to uncle's comments about minimizing unions and removing the extra valves.
Is moving or changing the orientation of your sump an issue? Also, you can have the dry emergency pipe empty pretty much wherever. It should only be used transiently on startup, so if it empties into the return chamber it's not that big a deal.
+1 to uncle's comments about minimizing unions and removing the extra valves.
Is moving or changing the orientation of your sump an issue? Also, you can have the dry emergency pipe empty pretty much wherever. It should only be used transiently on startup, so if it empties into the return chamber it's not that big a deal.
ViktorVaughn
Member
Awesome thanks for the tips and advice. Should I convert the other two standpipes in a similar fashion as the siphon? If this is the route I go, it certainty minimizes the amount of re plumbing ill have to do. Is this still a BA and just as safe or is the only way to get it as safe as possible is to redo the plumbing and use flex pvc to get rid of the horizontal runs. Also, if my standpipes are all cut flat I'd assume the emergency would need to be higher?
2slow95vert
New member
Hey Guys, I could use some advice. I'm setting up a 56 column tank (with a 20H fuge in the stand) and am going with a bean animal coast to coast set up. Do I need to use 1.5" plumbing or will 1" be good? Also, any recommendations on a return pump for me? I want it done right the first time and it is VERY IMPORTANT that the set up is QUIET to keep wifey happy
ViktorVaughn
Member
Thanks for the detailed information, I appreciate it. I will eliminate all threaded fittings other than the ones that screw directly into my bulkheads, the tank came with threaded bulkheads. As for the horizontal runs I might try what SGT_York suggested, if it seems it might be problematic I will just re do it with flex pvc. Ill take out the other unneeded valves and go back to the drawing board.
SGT_York
New member
The other two standpipes should remain like BA's diagram, an open channel with john guest fitting and a dry emergency.
It is still a BA in convention with a herbie flair added. Really it takes the best of each. It is just as safe as the BA. nothing particuarly safe about a siphon it's the dry emergency and john guest fitting adaption to the durso that make the BA safe. Also add a lid and screen to the overflow to keep snails/algae/fish out.
The opening to the emergency needs to be higher than the durso pipe opening but low enough to prevent the water level in your display from rising. Each overflow will be a bit different in height based on your flow. The BA solution is very good just turn the last 90 elbow up in the dry emergency and match the standpipe height with the open channel.
ViktorVaughn
Member
I tried turning and sliding my sump every which way but still in the same boat. After uncles advice of removing unnecessary valves, I can fit 45's now.
Ok thanks a bunch again. Sounds like the way i'll go is to switch the siphon to the 3/4", add a gate valve and even straighten out the horizontal run since that will now be possible. I'll convert the siphon standpipe into just a straight pipe with strainer. The plan is to set the open pipe about 4" under the overflow water level with the open channel being 2" below the water line and the emergency standpipe at a 1/2" to 1" below tank water line. Does this sound about right for 500-600 gph or should I tweak the distances? Or will the plumbing mechanics even operate this way? The few pictures I've stumbled across with similar overflows and drain schematics seem to have their pipes set up this way.
Hello Everyone,
I am researching the best way to set up a new 225g (72x30x24) tank and am looking forward to your insight.
I am trying to determine the best location and size of the overflow. I was looking into, and prefer, an external overflow with the Bean drain - such as I am currently running on a custom 50g. I love the external overflow and bean, and wanted to do it again.
Problem is that my local, and even 300 mile away vendors can't get tanks any longer with external boxes. So I'm faced with either paying way too much, IMO, for this option a long way away and having shipped - OR just sucking it up and using an internal overflow.
If I go internal overflow, where is the best location in the tank to put it, how big does it need to be, and do I (or should I) add teeth to the overflow.
The tank will be going along a wall, but I was considering doing a drain on one end (like a peninsula) to keep the front-to-back depth as consistent as possible along most of the length of the tank.
I am put-off by center overflows as they reduce the depth of the tank in the most critical area - the center, and really just seem to stick out and waste space. I considered corner overflows, but that would impede viewing from one of the sides (it will be on the same wall as the entry to the room, next to the door, so the first view of the tank would be from that end - and give you a 30"w x 72" deep view of the reef.
I anticipate using a Gyre to provide flow for the tank, likely on the viewing end opposite the overflow (if I have the overflow on the end that is) - unless I could put it on the overflow wall itself, but putting the circulation pump/gyre below the overflow seems to me that it would reduce it's effectiveness.
Sorry for rambling. Please ask any questions that you have. I don't want to order a tank this size and then regret the placement and build of the overflow.
Thank you,
Paul
I am researching the best way to set up a new 225g (72x30x24) tank and am looking forward to your insight.
I am trying to determine the best location and size of the overflow. I was looking into, and prefer, an external overflow with the Bean drain - such as I am currently running on a custom 50g. I love the external overflow and bean, and wanted to do it again.
Problem is that my local, and even 300 mile away vendors can't get tanks any longer with external boxes. So I'm faced with either paying way too much, IMO, for this option a long way away and having shipped - OR just sucking it up and using an internal overflow.
If I go internal overflow, where is the best location in the tank to put it, how big does it need to be, and do I (or should I) add teeth to the overflow.
The tank will be going along a wall, but I was considering doing a drain on one end (like a peninsula) to keep the front-to-back depth as consistent as possible along most of the length of the tank.
I am put-off by center overflows as they reduce the depth of the tank in the most critical area - the center, and really just seem to stick out and waste space. I considered corner overflows, but that would impede viewing from one of the sides (it will be on the same wall as the entry to the room, next to the door, so the first view of the tank would be from that end - and give you a 30"w x 72" deep view of the reef.
I anticipate using a Gyre to provide flow for the tank, likely on the viewing end opposite the overflow (if I have the overflow on the end that is) - unless I could put it on the overflow wall itself, but putting the circulation pump/gyre below the overflow seems to me that it would reduce it's effectiveness.
Sorry for rambling. Please ask any questions that you have. I don't want to order a tank this size and then regret the placement and build of the overflow.
Thank you,
Paul
woodnaquanut
Active member
Is this glass or acrylic?
I like the coast to coast concept for the overflow. Putting this on the end does restrict it's length. Longer is better.
One solution is the ghost (reef savvy) OF. A narrow box in tank and a larger box w/ BA plumbing on the outside. It only requires holes in the back/side of the tank. You get most of the advantages of an external and very little of the internal sucking up space in the tank.
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