Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Voight]

Hey everyone, I finally got my system up & running and just did my wet test through the whole system, and it works brilliantly except for one huge problem...all 4 of my bulkhead are leaking & I have no idea why.

I'm so bummed out. I tested them just by filling the OB & had no leaks & now with all the plumbing attached they leak. Here is the evidence I have to go on:

-yes, there was some chipping around the holes caused by the glass company drilling my tank, but it didn't seem too bad, I had seen other people posting about it & mine were nothing compared to some chipping I saw in some threads on this site

-my plumbing is not yet reinforced so maybe the weight of my piped are affecting the gasket seal

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:

-is it possible I overtightened my bulkhead causing them to leak

-can I just sand down the chipping around the holes to improve seal

-can I put the rubber gasket on the outside of the tank(or buy another gasket for each hole having one on both sides of the glass

I'm completely discouraged by this having put so much work into it(as all of us have), and am really hoping one of you can help. Buying a new tank or expoxying & redrilling is not really and option I want to pursue because my tank is up, level and my OB is already silicone perfectly into place

PLEASE HELP

 

[uncleof6]

IF the leaking is coming from the joins with the plumbing, then they weren't properly glued, or you used tape instead of thread sealant for threads.

If it is leaking around the gasket, if the chipping is not really too bad, (subjective) you most likely have tightened the bulkheads too tight, and the gasket has squished out. Second most common cause is the gasket on the wrong side. The gasket goes on the flange side of the bulkhead, not on the nut side. It does not matter which is outside the tank, gasket goes on the flange side of the bulkhead.

If the chips are large, you are not likely to get a good seal. Put the flange with gasket on the side opposite the chipping. Again, does not matter inside or outside.

Do not try to use any silicone or other sealing type compound on the bulkhead or gasket. It will not help, and will not last.

 

[Voight]

The leaks are only coming directly from bulkhead, all actual plumbing is leak free. I readjusted a couple of them in the hole and tried to tighten it w/ the gasket covering as much of the chip as possible and it kind of helped so I think I have isolated the issue to the chipping.

I have already disassembled all of plumbing and took out the bulkheads. What is my best course of action from here?

Sanding?

Putty of some king?

Or(I think this would work best long term) buy an additional gasket for each bulkhead & put one on either side of the glass?

Also, yes my bulkheads are installed correctly w/ gasket & flange inside tank.

 

[sleepydoc]

Directly from what part of the bulkhead? If the leak is coming around the bulkhead and the gasket isn't covering the chips than that's likely the source. Do as uncle suggested and flip your bulkheads around.

 

[Voight]

it's leaking around the bulkhead & running down the back of my tank.

I would take uncles advice & flip the bulkhead but there's no room in my OB, unless I cut some of the bulkhead threads off.

I'm thinking off trying to level off the chips w/ silicone & letting it dry, then installing bulkhead. Uncle, I know you said not t use silicone on the gasket or bulkhead, but why not try this & just letting the silicone bond to the glass and level out the chips?

 

[uncleof6]

The silicone may work temporarily, but it will not hold up long term, and you will be faced with the same situation again. I would recommend pulling the overflow, and making a larger one so you can turn the bulkheads around. Two gaskets are not as good as 1. Also, if the chips are that bad, I would have some concerns about the tank itself.

If you decide to cut down the bulkheads, thread the nut on before cutting. It will help clean the threads up after you cut it.

You could drill out the existing holes for 1.25" bulkheads (assuming they are 1") and bush the siphon down to 1", and leave the others at 1.25", and don't chip the glass this time around. I cheat and use a Techni waterjet, (non-assembled tanks,) but I am surprised that all the videos and online instructions, don't consider starting from one side of the glass, and finishing up from the other side—which will prevent chipping; then again, I am not that surprised: they want to make it so simple, and it is not that simple to line up the templates, but it is not that hard either. Drilling glass is a learned skill, just like building tanks, and putting plumbing systems together. Part of the problem is the glass needs to be firmly supported on the opposite side, tape or even a piece of plywood is not enough. Should practice on scrap glass, not a tank you intend to use, till you can drill without chipping the glass.

 

[Camien]

Drain Depth for Aquaponics Application

Drain Depth for Aquaponics Application

Hello All,
I am new to this forum but I have read the entire original Bean post as well as dozens of this one and I have a couple of questions that I do not believe have been covered for my proposed application. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have set up an indoor aquaponics garden. Everything is set except for a few issues with aquarium. I have a grow bed on top, a 40B tank below and a 27 gallon sump tank below that. I originally built a dual overflow, dual drain pvc overflow using an aqualifter pump to maintain siphon. I have this set up in a carpeted basement and I cannot deal with the inherent flaw of this system. If my pump fails, overflow is inevitable. I have decided to drill the tank and do a Bean overflow. I am using a 633gph pump from sump to tank. I am planning on using 1-1/4" bulkheads.

When my grow bed fills, my sump lowers by 2-1/4". I have read that drains should be 1/2" to 1" below water line for this set up to operate properly. I need mine to be approx. 3" below high water line to accommodate the water height fluctuation and still have a silent system. It seems this will cause a lot of back pressure.

Question 1.

If I were to drill several holes in the drain line, either slightly above or below the high water line, will this system work and be silent?

Question 2.

Will 1-1/4" bulkheads with 1-1/4" pvc plumbing work well for a 633gph pump or should I reduce them to 1"?

Thank you all for any help.

So I bought all of my PVC fittings today and I have one more question before I put it all together. I am planning on using 1-1/4" bulkheads with the same size pipe and fittings. The stand pipe will be reduced to 1" as my pump is not super strong and I want to make sure I get sufficient siphoning.

Should I use a 1-1/4" elbow in OB and reduce to 1" on back side of bulkhead or would it be better to use a 1" elbow in OB and have the entire run 1"?

 

[uncleof6]

I would say it does not matter a whole lot. You are not getting close to the flow capacity of 1".

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Been a while since I posted on this thread, over on the acrylics thread I have been discussing my preferred version of the BA system and dug up some pics and wanted to share them.

This is an internal/external 3000 GPH+ system that I built for a guy in our local club back about a year ago.

48" notched internal box

Both boxes

Close-up of external box (3/8" cast acrylic)

Here's how they line up (2" slip x slip pass-through bulkheads)

As you can tell I put the holes for the pass-through such that the bulkhead flanges are very close to the side/bottom panel. Maybe 1/2 or less of space. This works just fine, it's a small box, probably weighs more than the water that fills it, so making it 3/8" means it's really overbuilt. But I don't like making anything without a euro that is less than 3/8" (even an overflow box).

I put the bulkheads for the drains on the outside corners and one in the middle. This is done so that you can choose the order of your drains if you want. I use middle for emergency, then left/right for siphon & open channel, and place the 180s on those so that all 3 drains are in the middle. I have enough distance between the holes such that when a piece of PVC pipe is inserted into one of the 180s and extended down to the bottom panel of the external box, it won't conflict with the bulkhead flange - but JUST enough room to allow this (maybe 1/4"). This way, the water flows through the pass-throughs but that flow path does not go directly to the drain points - the water must flow toward the center of the box and then goes down the drains. This decreases the chances of air getting sucked in either from pass-through turbulence or turbulence in the external box. Of course, if the external box has enough vertical depth to it, there will be zero issue with surface turbulence. So I have enough vertical height to the external box to allow for it to be filled up with enough water to completely submerge the pass-through bulkheads with say 1" of water above the flange and not be in danger of overflowing, this means that once the system is settled in, you have very little surface turbulence in the external box even at 3000 GPH.

Also if you notice I found a great plumbing part to use for the 180s in the box. It's the lower part of a sink trap, it comes in 2 parts but I just throw away the other part of the trap, the 180 has a little drain cap that screws on (and has a rubber gasket) so you use that for the siphon line and leave the cap on, and for the open channel you just take it off and when the water rises above the top, it seals off and you have your secondary siphon. You could also leave the cap on but loosen it and remove the gasket, maybe just drill a few holes in it, as long as it doesn't get clogged up with tank gunk or salt creep it will let air into the open channel during normal operation. A lot easier than a John Guest fitting and airline tubing IMO. Not sure if anyone else has tried this or not, I subscribe to this thread but it's hard to keep up with it!!

 

[Voight]

The silicone may work temporarily, but it will not hold up long term, and you will be faced with the same situation again. I would recommend pulling the overflow, and making a larger one so you can turn the bulkheads around. Two gaskets are not as good as 1. Also, if the chips are that bad, I would have some concerns about the tank itself.

If you decide to cut down the bulkheads, thread the nut on before cutting. It will help clean the threads up after you cut it.

You could drill out the existing holes for 1.25" bulkheads (assuming they are 1") and bush the siphon down to 1", and leave the others at 1.25", and don't chip the glass this time around. I cheat and use a Techni waterjet, (non-assembled tanks,) but I am surprised that all the videos and online instructions, don't consider starting from one side of the glass, and finishing up from the other side"”which will prevent chipping; then again, I am not that surprised: they want to make it so simple, and it is not that simple to line up the templates, but it is not that hard either. Drilling glass is a learned skill, just like building tanks, and putting plumbing systems together. Part of the problem is the glass needs to be firmly supported on the opposite side, tape or even a piece of plywood is not enough. Should practice on scrap glass, not a tank you intend to use, till you can drill without chipping the glass.

I didn't drill the tank, I took it to a glass company & they chipped it. I think I'm just going to try leveling out the chips as much as possible w/ silicone. I don't think there is enough internal thread to cut much off for room in ob, if I was to flip BH around. Thanks uncle & everyone for your help.

 

[woodnaquanut]

Nice, Floyd. Love the use of the p-trap part!

Why is the external box so small? Any advantage/disadvantage to making it longer with more room for the 180s?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Nice, Floyd. Love the use of the p-trap part!

Why is the external box so small? Any advantage/disadvantage to making it longer with more room for the 180s?

I dunno, I suppose just wanting it to be compact and lightweight when filled, is there a really good reason for making it any bigger than it needs to be?

My personal experience (after a few flops) is that as long as the pass-through bulkheads are below the waterline within both the internal and external box, the surface turbulence issue is really pretty minimal. As far as emergency operation goes, I suppose adding a few inches to the box would allow for a bit more capacity but when you're talking about 3000 GPH of flow, you would need to add several gallons worth of capacity to make a significant difference.

I have a Miracles tank with a bonded on glass external box and a end weir that is only 16" wide running actual 3000GPH of flow and 3x 1.5" drain bulkheads and I've been working on that tank when a big snail went down the siphon line and lodged in the siphon valve, which sounded like a break at a pool table. I about s##t my pants because I was doing some maintenance and had a hose snaked down the emergency drain pipe which meant there was no emergency drain. I immediately raced to the plug for the Reeflo pump but watched as the open channel kicked in and took care of all 3000 GPH without coming close to overflowing the box. So I don't think that making the external box any bigger than it needs to be to fit all the plumbing parts in makes a huge difference, especially on lower flow systems.

 

[uncleof6]

I didn't drill the tank, I took it to a glass company & they chipped it. I think I'm just going to try leveling out the chips as much as possible w/ silicone. I don't think there is enough internal thread to cut much off for room in ob, if I was to flip BH around. Thanks uncle & everyone for your help.

Then you need to go after the glass company that wrecked the tank. Their chipping the glass is nothing short of incompetence, and they should be held accountable. It is not usual, and it is not expected that glass be chipped when paying to have it drilled.

 

[Voight]

Then you need to go after the glass company that wrecked the tank. Their chipping the glass is nothing short of incompetence, and they should be held accountable. It is not usual, and it is not expected that glass be chipped when paying to have it drilled.

Ok, maybe I'll contact them. The only thing is, there's not much they can do. Even if I had theM redrill I would have to refabricate the OB.

I'm just going to pray the silicone works. I leveled it out pretty well. It should give me a good seal. I'll test it later today & see how she goes.

 

[SGT_York]

I'd imagine sealing to a dry silicone would have some difficulties (certainly long term issues). If it doesn't hold try placing the bulkhead with wet silicone then cleaning up the residue. Not the best solution but I'd imagine it would give you a tighter seal than cured silicone against the bulkhead washer.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Floyd!

I had a flood!

twas not the overflow that failed...

Alas, it was the DIY scrubber kit you were kind enough to send me...

Well not the scrubbers fault, but rather my lack of proper husbandry, overfeeding, ignoring your long-ago offered upgrades, and um general laziness....

"Look at that, it is so packed full that the water is barely flowing.... Ahh well, maybe when I get home this evening I will clean it out...."

Well 2 weeks of that and I think you know what happened

No light blocker for the spray bar...
No light blocker for the false bottom...
No zero clearance drain...
No zero clearance emergency drain...
Etc....

Maybe it is time to order a new scrubber with all the new features, and do a little maintenance on it from time to time!

Lessons are never fun learned the hard way, especially when you know the outcome in advance and continue to whistle past the graveyard anyway!

 

[uncleof6]

I'd imagine sealing to a dry silicone would have some difficulties (certainly long term issues). If it doesn't hold try placing the bulkhead with wet silicone then cleaning up the residue. Not the best solution but I'd imagine it would give you a tighter seal than cured silicone against the bulkhead washer.

The wet silicone will more than likely cause the gasket to slip out, and all you wind up with is a mess that will be more problematic than what already exists. That is why it is specifically stated hundreds of times: do not use silicone on a bulkhead. I stated leveling the chips with silicone may work temporarily, but would probably fail, which is just another way of saying it is a waste of time.

Realistically, there are only three solutions: Turn the bulkheads around, and rebuild the overflow box if necessary (socket bulkheads don't have threads to worry about when cutting,) which is really too easy to be considered a chore; return the tank to the folks that messed it up to begin with, to drill out the holes to 1.25" and hopefully do it right this time around, or three—have the glass panel replaced by the folks that messed it up. Less than that will always be a constant waiting game for when it starts to leak again, not too mention that if chipped that badly there will always be the possibility of the tank failing. It is what it is, a leak risk exists or it does not.

 

[Voight]

Well, I tried leveling off the chips w/ silicone and stopped 3 of the 4 leaks, so I tried siliconing the 4th hole(return) again and will test it again tomorrow.

I hear you about redrilling. I may do that if I am still unconfident w/ how everything seals up. It's just the headache of undoing everything, and lugging my tank back to the shop. Yes I know, it's all about peace of mind so it's probably worth it.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Floyd!

I had a flood!

twas not the overflow that failed...

Alas, it was the DIY scrubber kit you were kind enough to send me...

Well not the scrubbers fault, but rather my lack of proper husbandry, overfeeding, ignoring your long-ago offered upgrades, and um general laziness....

"Look at that, it is so packed full that the water is barely flowing.... Ahh well, maybe when I get home this evening I will clean it out...."

Well 2 weeks of that and I think you know what happened

No light blocker for the spray bar...
No light blocker for the false bottom...
No zero clearance drain...
No zero clearance emergency drain...
Etc....

Maybe it is time to order a new scrubber with all the new features, and do a little maintenance on it from time to time!

Lessons are never fun learned the hard way, especially when you know the outcome in advance and continue to whistle past the graveyard anyway!

Dude! I never let any of mine go more than 2 weeks (or so) between cleanings, let alone 2 weeks AFTER it's full!!

 

[SGT_York]

Yes Uncle, I agree your solutions are preferred but I can't see adhering to dry silicone will work at all??? As the poster has ruled out the preferred options I'll settle for one step better than the current position.