Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[SGT_York]

Awesome thanks for the tips and advice. Should I convert the other two standpipes in a similar fashion as the siphon? If this is the route I go, it certainty minimizes the amount of re plumbing ill have to do. Is this still a BA and just as safe or is the only way to get it as safe as possible is to redo the plumbing and use flex pvc to get rid of the horizontal runs. Also, if my standpipes are all cut flat I'd assume the emergency would need to be higher?

The other two standpipes should remain like BA's diagram, an open channel with john guest fitting and a dry emergency.

It is still a BA in convention with a herbie flair added. Really it takes the best of each. It is just as safe as the BA. nothing particuarly safe about a siphon it's the dry emergency and john guest fitting adaption to the durso that make the BA safe. Also add a lid and screen to the overflow to keep snails/algae/fish out.

The opening to the emergency needs to be higher than the durso pipe opening but low enough to prevent the water level in your display from rising. Each overflow will be a bit different in height based on your flow. The BA solution is very good just turn the last 90 elbow up in the dry emergency and match the standpipe height with the open channel.

 

[ViktorVaughn]

Viktor-
+1 to uncle's comments about minimizing unions and removing the extra valves.

Is moving or changing the orientation of your sump an issue? Also, you can have the dry emergency pipe empty pretty much wherever. It should only be used transiently on startup, so if it empties into the return chamber it's not that big a deal.

I tried turning and sliding my sump every which way but still in the same boat. After uncles advice of removing unnecessary valves, I can fit 45's now.

The other two standpipes should remain like BA's diagram, an open channel with john guest fitting and a dry emergency.

It is still a BA in convention with a herbie flair added. Really it takes the best of each. It is just as safe as the BA. nothing particuarly safe about a siphon it's the dry emergency and john guest fitting adaption to the durso that make the BA safe. Also add a lid and screen to the overflow to keep snails/algae/fish out.

The opening to the emergency needs to be higher than the durso pipe opening but low enough to prevent the water level in your display from rising. Each overflow will be a bit different in height based on your flow. The BA solution is very good just turn the last 90 elbow up in the dry emergency and match the standpipe height with the open channel.

Ok thanks a bunch again. Sounds like the way i'll go is to switch the siphon to the 3/4", add a gate valve and even straighten out the horizontal run since that will now be possible. I'll convert the siphon standpipe into just a straight pipe with strainer. The plan is to set the open pipe about 4" under the overflow water level with the open channel being 2" below the water line and the emergency standpipe at a 1/2" to 1" below tank water line. Does this sound about right for 500-600 gph or should I tweak the distances? Or will the plumbing mechanics even operate this way? The few pictures I've stumbled across with similar overflows and drain schematics seem to have their pipes set up this way.

 

[SGT_York]

Depending on your overflow with no teeth it is a good setup. If you have teeth expect some noise due to the 2" fall.

 

[Pprice01]

Hello Everyone,

I am researching the best way to set up a new 225g (72x30x24) tank and am looking forward to your insight.

I am trying to determine the best location and size of the overflow. I was looking into, and prefer, an external overflow with the Bean drain - such as I am currently running on a custom 50g. I love the external overflow and bean, and wanted to do it again.

Problem is that my local, and even 300 mile away vendors can't get tanks any longer with external boxes. So I'm faced with either paying way too much, IMO, for this option a long way away and having shipped - OR just sucking it up and using an internal overflow.

If I go internal overflow, where is the best location in the tank to put it, how big does it need to be, and do I (or should I) add teeth to the overflow.

The tank will be going along a wall, but I was considering doing a drain on one end (like a peninsula) to keep the front-to-back depth as consistent as possible along most of the length of the tank.

I am put-off by center overflows as they reduce the depth of the tank in the most critical area - the center, and really just seem to stick out and waste space. I considered corner overflows, but that would impede viewing from one of the sides (it will be on the same wall as the entry to the room, next to the door, so the first view of the tank would be from that end - and give you a 30"w x 72" deep view of the reef.

I anticipate using a Gyre to provide flow for the tank, likely on the viewing end opposite the overflow (if I have the overflow on the end that is) - unless I could put it on the overflow wall itself, but putting the circulation pump/gyre below the overflow seems to me that it would reduce it's effectiveness.

Sorry for rambling. Please ask any questions that you have. I don't want to order a tank this size and then regret the placement and build of the overflow.

Thank you,

Paul

 

[woodnaquanut]

Hello Everyone,

I am researching the best way to set up a new 225g (72x30x24) tank and am looking forward to your insight.

Is this glass or acrylic?

I like the coast to coast concept for the overflow. Putting this on the end does restrict it's length. Longer is better.

One solution is the ghost (reef savvy) OF. A narrow box in tank and a larger box w/ BA plumbing on the outside. It only requires holes in the back/side of the tank. You get most of the advantages of an external and very little of the internal sucking up space in the tank.

 

[Pprice01]

Glass. Can you buy it separately?

 

[woodnaquanut]

Glass. Can you buy it separately?

I have no idea. Contact Reef Savvy.

 

[Pprice01]

I did. Also see an imitation on eBay.

 

[Pprice01]

Reef savvy got back to my inquiry about purchasing their ghost overflow simply to say that "The final details on the Ghost Overflow are being ironed out and will be released in the next couple of months." What does that even mean? This is already released to the market. Are they having issues with them? Changing the design? This makes no sense and needless to say I was not satisfied by their response.

 

[uncleof6]

Reef savvy got back to my inquiry about purchasing their ghost overflow simply to say that "The final details on the Ghost Overflow are being ironed out and will be released in the next couple of months." What does that even mean? This is already released to the market. Are they having issues with them? Changing the design? This makes no sense and needless to say I was not satisfied by their response.

Would it be possible to simply say, latest advice I have seen on it is "don't hold your breath?" (last month.) Some of it is certainly production cost/profit margin. Much more than that is speculation. What the message means is: it is not currently available.

At the 2013 MACNA it was touted as a game changer, however the only thing game changing was the inclusion of a BA system in the external box, and BA's system came years before "the Ghost" was shown at MACNA. BA's drain system is certainly game changing at the very least. The rest is simply an adaptation of glass-holes' overflow design.

In your original post, you were looking for "best methods," and quite frankly the Ghost Overflow, and other "knock-offs"/similar set ups are flawed. They pretty much line up with what we have been dealing with all along: small, toothed inefficient weirs, that are not really capable of handling the rated flows, without a great deal of noise; with very "low" surface skimming/renewal rates.

There is a rather solid science behind weirs, how they work, and how that impacts our endeavor. The physics get a bit tricky, and the chemistry aspects concerning the skimmer, gas exchange, and overall system health, can get even more tricky—moving far beyond the oft spoken myth: "my parameters are fine." (Eric Bourneman, 2003)

Rather than re-iterate words that have already been written, take a browse to Bean's website and read the sections: "Overflow Basics," and the sidebar entitled "Surface Renewal."

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

Bean chose to use Anthony Calfo's overflow concepts (the Coast to Coast,) to use in conjunction with his drain system. As Bean states, there has been sufficient observation and evidence to support the logical conclusion that this is what is wanted. My experience and observations support the logical conclusion. If we are to use a "game changing" drain system, there is little logic to using an overflow that is not game changing, just more of the same. In terms of progress, it makes little sense to get up to the C2C, and then step backwards into the same old same old for reasons of aesthetics. Function should come first.

A fish tank is always going to be a fish tank. Until there is enough progress that we can free ourselves from power heads (we are not there yet) it is always going to look "cluttered" like a fish tank, and even without the power heads, it will still look like a fish tank. Speaking of small home aquaria, not large public displays.

Anyway, anyone having trouble with their BA drain system? :wave:

 

[Pprice01]

Thanks Uncle. I am running a c2c system with the BA drain now, on my current setup. I am very much a proponent of them both and want them on my next build. The problem I'm running into is finding a mfg for a tank who will build the c2c and BA setup in an external box. I want to preserve as much space as I can inside the tank for the obvious reasons. I'm finding that it's going to increase the cost 50% and will have to be built out of state. So naturally I have begun to at least explore options.

 

[uncleof6]

Thanks Uncle. I am running a c2c system with the BA drain now, on my current setup. I am very much a proponent of them both and want them on my next build. The problem I'm running into is finding a mfg for a tank who will build the c2c and BA setup in an external box. I want to preserve as much space as I can inside the tank for the obvious reasons. I'm finding that it's going to increase the cost 50% and will have to be built out of state. So naturally I have begun to at least explore options.

What obvious reasons? The commercial options all take the function backwards, the reasons simply cannot be compelling enough to sacrifice function... ...considering you know the score, the logic, and reasoning behind the long efficient weir of the simple L shaped shelf, up in a non-useable area of the tank.

Considering the cost, having a custom tank built is often impractical, unless you are strategically located. On the other hand, this is DIY, not really a sounding board for commercial products, and the solution for function is going to be DIY. Although sometimes, such as in the case of the "DIY PVC Overflow," the commercial product (HOB) will be the better option, this is the exception, not the rule.

 

[Camien]

Drain Depth for Aquaponics Application

Drain Depth for Aquaponics Application

Hey Bean and Uncle,

I got my system all set up. Tank drilled. Internal Bean Animal installed. I am super excited. I got tank dead plumb and everything works perfectly. It took me a minute to tune it but now it works great. I decided to have my biological filter dump into tank instead of the sump to increase flow. I now have a 633 eco pump and a 340 gph pump going into tank. This really helped, as I now have enough flow with the 1-1/4" bulkheads for the siphon and secondary to work together. No bubbles or sound.

Thank you Bean for the idea of a constant height for my tank so that my sump can fluctuate for aquaponics plants and not affect the aquarium. I put a 3 gallon bucket in sump and ran all drains to it. It is super quiet. I could not be more happy. I know that my setup is different than what most on this forum are doing but I wanted to highlight the versatility of this system. My aquaponics system is now ready to go. Water tests are good. Water is clean and at temp. I am picking up fish tomorrow and plants will be ready to be transplanted as soon as the system is cycled.

I really appreciate your willingness to give me advice on this. There is something very satisfying about putting a bunch of time and effort into a build and then seeing it come to fruition. Watching the water flow evenly over the overflow and being completely silent gave me a big smile. So thank you Bean and Uncle.

 

[Camien]

Drain Depth for Aquaponics Application

Drain Depth for Aquaponics Application

In case you all have questions,

I do have the airline that I still need to attach to the secondary drain. Also, I laminated a 1/4" piece of glass on to the back of aquarium where I drilled for my bulkheads. This made all drilled area 1/2" thick (cured for a week). Tank is a 40B with no center support and it bows a bit when filled, so for safety's sake, I decided to beef up glass so that I did not risk a full tank blowout.

 

[shellsea]

Thanks to all that have shared their knowledge with others here. Too many to mention but you know who you are. I have tried to follow this and many threads on plumbing design as I have never been happy w/ commercial standard designs and need the guidance of those here that are experienced and know what’s best. In my latest tank, a marineland 120 gal RR corner overflow I have begun the conversion to a Herbie design since I have only two bottom holes drilled in tank. I say “begun” because I just tried the idea to get a feel for the benefit which I see already, but I have not plumbed a gate valve in main drain line. I used a ball valve I had and see that the gate valve will be required to fine tune the drain. I plan on oversizing the gate valve to 1 ½ in. on a 1 in pipe.

So my question now, is after reading uncleof6 posts and bean’s article on surface renewal, can I convert my cornerflow weir to coast to coast weir and where might I look for a design idea or build thread? Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[uncleof6]

Thanks to all that have shared their knowledge with others here. Too many to mention but you know who you are. I have tried to follow this and many threads on plumbing design as I have never been happy w/ commercial standard designs and need the guidance of those here that are experienced and know what's best. In my latest tank, a marineland 120 gal RR corner overflow I have begun the conversion to a Herbie design since I have only two bottom holes drilled in tank. I say "œbegun" because I just tried the idea to get a feel for the benefit which I see already, but I have not plumbed a gate valve in main drain line. I used a ball valve I had and see that the gate valve will be required to fine tune the drain. I plan on oversizing the gate valve to 1 ½ in. on a 1 in pipe.

So my question now, is after reading uncleof6 posts and bean's article on surface renewal, can I convert my cornerflow weir to coast to coast weir and where might I look for a design idea or build thread? Any thoughts appreciated.

The, can be converted, however it is a lot of work, with many design criteria in order for it to work right, without water falls, and friction losses. Basically this would be an L shaped shelf attached to the far end of the tank, and notched into the overflow so it is all one body of water (no water fall.)

A better solution is to remove the corner overflow, plug the holes with capped bulkheads, build an L shaped shelf in the upper part of the back of the tank, drill three holes out the back, and be done with it.

I really don't think a larger valve on the siphon is going to be worth much, you will simply have to close it more, to get a similar water level rise in the overflow. Net benefit: 0.

 

[NaCi]

Hey RC friends. So I am planning to buy my plumbing soon for my ba but I am still working on my plumbing setup. I drew some pretty bad diagrams of what I am planning but I am seeking advice or corrections on the system. The plumbing will all be 1" diameter. Please excuse the sloppy drawings, unfortunately I don't have a software to do a better sketch.

I have a 70 gallon tank dimensions 48"x16.5"x21.5"

I made a glass weir 38"x4"x5"

Here are the drains

http://s634.photobucket.com/user/black_keys09/media/tankdiagram.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

and here are the returns

http://s634.photobucket.com/user/black_keys09/media/tankdiagram2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

 

[NaCi]

Here is a better quality picture of the drawings.

Drains
http://s634.photobucket.com/user/black_keys09/media/2015-02-03003414.jpg.html

Returns
http://s634.photobucket.com/user/black_keys09/media/2015-02-03003109.jpg.html

 

[shellsea]

The, can be converted, however it is a lot of work, with many design criteria in order for it to work right, without water falls, and friction losses. Basically this would be an L shaped shelf attached to the far end of the tank, and notched into the overflow so it is all one body of water (no water fall.)

A better solution is to remove the corner overflow, plug the holes with capped bulkheads, build an L shaped shelf in the upper part of the back of the tank, drill three holes out the back, and be done with it.

I really don't think a larger valve on the siphon is going to be worth much, you will simply have to close it more, to get a similar water level rise in the overflow. Net benefit: 0.

Thanks for advise uncle. Makes sense. Since tank is stocked and running I'll think about that option for awhile.

 

[NaCi]

Here is a better quality picture of the drawings.

Drains
http://s634.photobucket.com/user/black_keys09/media/2015-02-03003414.jpg.html

Returns
http://s634.photobucket.com/user/black_keys09/media/2015-02-03003109.jpg.html

Has anybody been able to see it? Does everything look okay with the drains?

Also the return. Ive heard that using tees isnt good but how else can I get two return lines? Will it be better if I make it so the tee goes straight through to the bulkhead on the left and branches off to the right to the other bulkhead on the right?