Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[rickztahone]

All your questions have been asked and answered hundreds of times in this thread alone, not to mention other threads on RC. :bounce1:

I can only imagine, but I do thank you for taking time out of your day to help me with mine. It is much appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Voight]

Thank you everyone, especially uncle, for your help with my leaking issues. I have had the system running for 24 hours with no leaks and am breathing a sigh of relief. I flipped the return bulkhead around(this was the worst offender) and had immediate success. Since I leveled out the glass chips with silicone I have had no leaking from any of the 3 drain bulkheads so for now I don't think I will order the slip and cut them to fit in my OB. If I ever have another leak issue I will definitely implement the reverse bulkhead plan on my drains, courtesy of Uncle. I will say, as extra insurance and peace of mind I did run a little bead of silicone around the bulkhead flange once they were already tightened into place. So as of now I am happy and confident in my system, and am excited to get this thing ripping and get some livestock going. Couldn't be happier with the bean animal design. It is so quiet and effective. Very glad I decided on it for my tank. I'll post more pics and info as my system transforms.

 

[asl4me76]

A 6 second video taken from one location, does not tell a whole lot.

First thing I would do, is cut the teeth off the overflow. The channeling is likely at least one source of the noise, and you barely have a trickle of flow in this tank, which should be up around 1800gph give or take, and with the teeth, is going to get louder. Teeth are counter productive to the whole purpose of an overflow, which is surface skimming/renewal, with as little noise as possible.

Second thing I would do is bush the bulkheads down to 1.25", and use 1.25" SDR-21 pipe (cl 200,) switch positions of the siphon and dry emergency, and see if that box is big enough with down turned ells as woody indicated, on the siphon and open channel.

To me it does not look like you have enough flow to start 1.5" bulkheads/drains, of course this is rather theoretical, as there is not really sufficient information yet, to call it "the way it is."

This looks like a commercial setup, if not I apologize, however I am not at all impressed with this type setup, and other examples that are showing up here and there. With some examples, the through-holes are in the wrong place. The internal is too small, and inefficient, (especially this example with a 180 gallon tank,) the external is too small, (both horizontally and vertically,) and the system will not fit without modifications, nor much flexibility at all. Such is with all things that are based on minimal dimensions, rather than actual performance. Some say they work fine, but I am not convinced.

Who said it was 180gal tank? It's not. My tank is much smaller, I think I have figured out the cause of the issue and will be adjusting it this weekend. The tank is currently cycling, so it's not much of a big deal until I can get it resolved this weekend. I'll let everyone know how it goes when I attempt to do my fix.

 

[uncleof6]

Who said it was 180gal tank? It's not. My tank is much smaller, I think I have figured out the cause of the issue and will be adjusting it this weekend. The tank is currently cycling, so it's not much of a big deal until I can get it resolved this weekend. I'll let everyone know how it goes when I attempt to do my fix.

No one I guess, I often cross up posts. I am doing pms and posts often the same time. If that part does not apply, then do ignore it. So it being much smaller than a 180, you should bush down the bulkheads to 1", as there is just no reason for bulkheads that large. However the fact that the overflow is small and inefficient, and the rest still applies, save for the flow rate you should be targeting. Especially concerning the teeth.

 

[BeanAnimal]

over 1,000,000 (that's one million for the comma challenged) page views for this thread split alone folks... Thanks everyone for their contributions and help!

 

[jc03]

over 1,000,000 (that's one million for the comma challenged) page views for this thread split alone folks... Thanks everyone for their contributions and help!

Thank you Bean!

 

[rickztahone]

over 1,000,000 (that's one million for the comma challenged) page views for this thread split alone folks... Thanks everyone for their contributions and help!

999,999 of those views were mine trying to get everything right, lol. Thanks BeanAnimal

 

[ViktorVaughn]

Hey guys, just got done plumbing my BA yesterday and after some more reading, I wanted to run my build by you before starting it up. My initial plan was to use 45's for the drains into my sump because it isn't a straight shot from my overflow. After measuring and trying every conceivable way to implement the 45's without making it look horendous, I failed and had to plumb with 90 degree elbows instead. This introduced horizontal runs of the following length: open channel: 8" full siphon: 6" emergency: 4". These horizontal runs happen after a 30-36" vertical drop. Will this design introduce a bunch of problems for me or just on system start up purging air? I'd rather not rearrange my sump and re plumb but will if necessary. Thanks for the help.

 

[jason2459]

Could you put two 45's butt up together? That's what I did a few times in my setup. I don't remember why I did that instead of a couple 90's to go down and across about 12' and down to my sump in my basement. There had to be a good reason explained why earlier on in this thread that I picked up on.


And thank you BeanAnimal for this thread!! 1M+ views!!! Best thing I did for a quite and reliable drain down to my sump. If done right with coast to coast would have been the most efficient too. :thumbsup:

 

[SGT_York]

Viktor,

May may not that will depend on the pipe diameter and the GPH going through the siphon. It certainly will take longer to start up. Any way to make the siphon line the 4" horizontal? The siphon line is the only one with a major concern the other two the horizontal will mainly just add noise. But the siphon may not start at all. If you can't remove it with 45's minimize it. You could also try flex hose to remove it.

 

[ViktorVaughn]

Could you put two 45's butt up together? That's what I did a few times in my setup. I don't remember why I did that instead of a couple 90's to go down and across about 12' and down to my sump in my basement. There had to be a good reason ex

And thank you BeanAnimal for this thread!! 1M+ views!!! Best thing I did for a quite and reliable drain down to my sump. If done right with coast to coast would have been the most efficient too. :thumbsup:

I tried the two 45's but my main limiting restriction is vertical room between bottom of overflow and sump. After bulkhead adapters and a gate valve, a 45 would put my drains into my return section.

Viktor,

May may not that will depend on the pipe diameter and the GPH going through the siphon. It certainly will take longer to start up. Any way to make the siphon line the 4" horizontal? The siphon line is the only one with a major concern the other two the horizontal will mainly just add noise. But the siphon may not start at all. If you can't remove it with 45's minimize it. You could also try flex hose to remove it.

My pipe diameter is as follows: full siphon and open channel have 1.5" standpipes adapted to the 2 1" bulkheads (1" drains) with the emergency standpipe being 1" diameter adapted to the 3/4" bulkhead. After head loss I'm guessing my return pump will push no more than 500-600 gph through the overflow. Only way to switch the siphon to 4" horizontal run would be to have it be the 3/4" drain. Looks like my only option will be to use the flex pvc which I was trying to avoid, I like the looks of hard plumbing much more. Oh well, i'll definitely sacrifice aesthetics for functionality.

On another note, I tested my overflow and plumbing for leaks and could use some help. Bulkheads were all tight and did not leak or drip when water was poured into the overflow. However, after forcing water through the standpipes quite a few small leaks could be seen. I'm pretty sure they are all occurring on the white threaded to slip adapters that screw into my bulkheads. The glued unions appear dry but the threaded union seems to leak. I applied Teflon tape to all the threads but perhaps there is a better method. After inspecting the adapters the overflow came with, the threads appear to be the same size. I went with new adapters because the ones that were included were threaded to barb hose. Also, should the adapters be screwed in really tight with a wrench or is a good hand tighten better? I'll post up a picture of my plumbing in a minute to see if that helps in regards to leaky unions.

 

[SGT_York]

Thread sealant paste works much better than teflon.

I'd also change your siphon to the 3/4" line leaving the 1.5" for your emergency.
It will handle the flow.

Also invest in a gate valve for the siphon you'll be glad you did. With bottom drilled bulkheads the horizontal run is easily mitigated by removing the siphon T and elbow and just leaving it an open pipe with strainer. The gate valve will be a lifesaver so you can properly adjust the flow. by removing the T and 90 on the siphon line you remove the actual siphon (lifting of water) that eliminates the start up time. The drain line kicks in when the water level reaches the appropriate height above the pipe opening. Doing so will allow the horizontal run to be purged immediatley. Bean added the T and 90 because he used a coast to coast overflow and needed the holes at the top of the tank side. Since that is not what you are doing the T's make no sense for the siphon line. Keep them for the open channel and emergency.

I just use elbow grease to tighten the adapters, with the paste it works. If it by chance still leaks a small turn with a wrench can help or it will crack the bulkhead, don't turn it too much.

 

[uncleof6]

I tried the two 45's but my main limiting restriction is vertical room between bottom of overflow and sump. After bulkhead adapters and a gate valve, a 45 would put my drains into my return section.



My pipe diameter is as follows: full siphon and open channel have 1.5" standpipes adapted to the 2 1" bulkheads (1" drains) with the emergency standpipe being 1" diameter adapted to the 3/4" bulkhead. After head loss I'm guessing my return pump will push no more than 500-600 gph through the overflow. Only way to switch the siphon to 4" horizontal run would be to have it be the 3/4" drain. Looks like my only option will be to use the flex pvc which I was trying to avoid, I like the looks of hard plumbing much more. Oh well, i'll definitely sacrifice aesthetics for functionality.

Well, the siphon should be on the 3/4" bulkhead in the first place. This is a basic "safety" concern in that the siphon be placed on the smallest bulkhead, and the emergency be placed on the larger bulkhead

Second, you do not need a valve on the dry emergency, nor on the open channel. Removing them will make running your pipe easier.

On another note, I tested my overflow and plumbing for leaks and could use some help. Bulkheads were all tight and did not leak or drip when water was poured into the overflow. However, after forcing water through the standpipes quite a few small leaks could be seen. I'm pretty sure they are all occurring on the white threaded to slip adapters that screw into my bulkheads. The glued unions appear dry but the threaded union seems to leak. I applied Teflon tape to all the threads but perhaps there is a better method. After inspecting the adapters the overflow came with, the threads appear to be the same size. I went with new adapters because the ones that were included were threaded to barb hose. Also, should the adapters be screwed in really tight with a wrench or is a good hand tighten better? I'll post up a picture of my plumbing in a minute to see if that helps in regards to leaky unions.

On this, the first thing you should do is reduce the number of threaded fittings in the system. Threaded fittings will always be at risk of leaking, and the fewer the better. Many want threaded fittings, so they can take the plumbing apart, but in reality, if the plumbing is done right the first time, they will never take it apart till moving the tank, or upgrading to a larger tank, and the plumbing will have to be re-done anyway.

It is not advised to use tape on threaded joints. Rather use a non-hardening thread sealant.

http://www.lascofittings.com/threads

https://www.customaquatic.com/estore/control/product/~product=PF-SPSB75-005

One of the largest problems with threaded fittings, is they are put together way too tight. Lasco provides instructions for the proper assembly of threaded fittings.

Also threaded unions should be avoided if at all possible. Every union is a possible leak point, and they are way over used in the hobby. Like I said before, the likely hood of actually taking your plumbing apart after it is finalized and the tank "live" is very slim to none. The only place they are acutally needed is at the return pump.

Horizontal runs can be unpredictable, one person will claim the system works fine with horizontal runs, others will claim they don't. I advise that they be avoided altogether, thus eliminating the variable, rather than guessing which way your system will go. In all cases, function comes before aesthetics, however, plumbing done right will seldom look horrible. It may take more thought, though. (Things such as sump design, among others.) These things should be worked out before buying/building a sump, or buying any parts for the plumbing system. It is easier to modify parts on paper than it is to modify a plumbed tank. The only way one gets painted into a corner, is by getting in a hurry, probably the number 1 problem in this hobby.

 

[rickztahone]

Well, the siphon should be on the 3/4" bulkhead in the first place. This is a basic "safety" concern in that the siphon be placed on the smallest bulkhead, and the emergency be placed on the larger bulkhead

Second, you do not need a valve on the dry emergency, nor on the open channel. Removing them will make running your pipe easier.

On this, the first thing you should do is reduce the number of threaded fittings in the system. Threaded fittings will always be at risk of leaking, and the fewer the better. Many want threaded fittings, so they can take the plumbing apart, but in reality, if the plumbing is done right the first time, they will never take it apart till moving the tank, or upgrading to a larger tank, and the plumbing will have to be re-done anyway.

It is not advised to use tape on threaded joints. Rather use a non-hardening thread sealant.

http://www.lascofittings.com/threads

https://www.customaquatic.com/estore/control/product/~product=PF-SPSB75-005

One of the largest problems with threaded fittings, is they are put together way too tight. Lasco provides instructions for the proper assembly of threaded fittings.

Also threaded unions should be avoided if at all possible. Every union is a possible leak point, and they are way over used in the hobby. Like I said before, the likely hood of actually taking your plumbing apart after it is finalized and the tank "live" is very slim to none. The only place they are acutally needed is at the return pump.

Horizontal runs can be unpredictable, one person will claim the system works fine with horizontal runs, others will claim they don't. I advise that they be avoided altogether, thus eliminating the variable, rather than guessing which way your system will go. In all cases, function comes before aesthetics, however, plumbing done right will seldom look horrible. It may take more thought, though. (Things such as sump design, among others.) These things should be worked out before buying/building a sump, or buying any parts for the plumbing system. It is easier to modify parts on paper than it is to modify a plumbed tank. The only way one gets painted into a corner, is by getting in a hurry, probably the number 1 problem in this hobby.

Great advice. I will make sure I keep researching all plumbing before I hit that buy now button.

 

[jason2459]

Only places I used a union was for a return pump and for my mixing station pump so it can be removed for servicing or replacement. Everything else is bonded.

 

[uncleof6]

Only places I used a union was for a return pump and for my mixing station pump so it can be removed for servicing or replacement. Everything else is bonded.

Good plan.

 

[sleepydoc]

Viktor-
+1 to uncle's comments about minimizing unions and removing the extra valves.

Is moving or changing the orientation of your sump an issue? Also, you can have the dry emergency pipe empty pretty much wherever. It should only be used transiently on startup, so if it empties into the return chamber it's not that big a deal.

 

[ViktorVaughn]

Thread sealant paste works much better than teflon.

I'd also change your siphon to the 3/4" line leaving the 1.5" for your emergency.
It will handle the flow.

Also invest in a gate valve for the siphon you'll be glad you did. With bottom drilled bulkheads the horizontal run is easily mitigated by removing the siphon T and elbow and just leaving it an open pipe with strainer. The gate valve will be a lifesaver so you can properly adjust the flow. by removing the T and 90 on the siphon line you remove the actual siphon (lifting of water) that eliminates the start up time. The drain line kicks in when the water level reaches the appropriate height above the pipe opening. Doing so will allow the horizontal run to be purged immediatley. Bean added the T and 90 because he used a coast to coast overflow and needed the holes at the top of the tank side. Since that is not what you are doing the T's make no sense for the siphon line. Keep them for the open channel and emergency.

I just use elbow grease to tighten the adapters, with the paste it works. If it by chance still leaks a small turn with a wrench can help or it will crack the bulkhead, don't turn it too much.

Awesome thanks for the tips and advice. Should I convert the other two standpipes in a similar fashion as the siphon? If this is the route I go, it certainty minimizes the amount of re plumbing ill have to do. Is this still a BA and just as safe or is the only way to get it as safe as possible is to redo the plumbing and use flex pvc to get rid of the horizontal runs. Also, if my standpipes are all cut flat I'd assume the emergency would need to be higher?

 

[2slow95vert]

Hey Guys, I could use some advice. I'm setting up a 56 column tank (with a 20H fuge in the stand) and am going with a bean animal coast to coast set up. Do I need to use 1.5" plumbing or will 1" be good? Also, any recommendations on a return pump for me? I want it done right the first time and it is VERY IMPORTANT that the set up is QUIET to keep wifey happy

 

[ViktorVaughn]

Well, the siphon should be on the 3/4" bulkhead in the first place. This is a basic "safety" concern in that the siphon be placed on the smallest bulkhead, and the emergency be placed on the larger bulkhead

Second, you do not need a valve on the dry emergency, nor on the open channel. Removing them will make running your pipe easier.

On this, the first thing you should do is reduce the number of threaded fittings in the system. Threaded fittings will always be at risk of leaking, and the fewer the better. Many want threaded fittings, so they can take the plumbing apart, but in reality, if the plumbing is done right the first time, they will never take it apart till moving the tank, or upgrading to a larger tank, and the plumbing will have to be re-done anyway.

It is not advised to use tape on threaded joints. Rather use a non-hardening thread sealant.

http://www.lascofittings.com/threads

https://www.customaquatic.com/estore/control/product/~product=PF-SPSB75-005

One of the largest problems with threaded fittings, is they are put together way too tight. Lasco provides instructions for the proper assembly of threaded fittings.

Also threaded unions should be avoided if at all possible. Every union is a possible leak point, and they are way over used in the hobby. Like I said before, the likely hood of actually taking your plumbing apart after it is finalized and the tank "live" is very slim to none. The only place they are acutally needed is at the return pump.

Horizontal runs can be unpredictable, one person will claim the system works fine with horizontal runs, others will claim they don't. I advise that they be avoided altogether, thus eliminating the variable, rather than guessing which way your system will go. In all cases, function comes before aesthetics, however, plumbing done right will seldom look horrible. It may take more thought, though. (Things such as sump design, among others.) These things should be worked out before buying/building a sump, or buying any parts for the plumbing system. It is easier to modify parts on paper than it is to modify a plumbed tank. The only way one gets painted into a corner, is by getting in a hurry, probably the number 1 problem in this hobby.

Thanks for the detailed information, I appreciate it. I will eliminate all threaded fittings other than the ones that screw directly into my bulkheads, the tank came with threaded bulkheads. As for the horizontal runs I might try what SGT_York suggested, if it seems it might be problematic I will just re do it with flex pvc. Ill take out the other unneeded valves and go back to the drawing board.