Splitting Carpet Anemonies
- Thread starter ilvfsh
- Start date
this nem was a bit pale in one part as it walked into a tunze 6055 a late last year, however i could not be sure it was this half or the other half, and also it was not this pale.elegance coral said:
I agree 100%.elegance coral said:
I must admit i got a bit carried away/heated in this thread, as did others, so i will start a fresh thread documenting it. I will try to keep it factual and emotionless and would ask if all could do the same.
Should this thread be done in the anenome forum or the fragging/prop forum?
I am also in contact with a marine biologist to have some more detailed documentation guidelines etc.
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BonsaiNut
Premium Member
It was not Charles Delbeek who managed the spawning. It was Larry Sharron when he worked out on Palau. He was able to repeat the process several times, however his system was not really set up properly for anemone aquaculture - he was culturing tridacnids at the time. He sent several anemone babies to Charles at Waikiki Aquarium, and Charles raised them from that point forward. I wish I had more photos, but Larry only had a regular film camera and his slides are in storage.
Though I know how Larry got them to spawn, I do not know how they spawn naturally. Dr. Scott down in Australia has done a lot of work with E. quadricolor and H. crispa and the frequency of their broadcast spawning, and it appears that at least for those two species, natural spawning is triggered by water temp, tides, and lunar cycles. However for S. gigantea and S. haddoni, which both appear to be brooding anemones, they may or may not follow a similar cycle. I am not aware of any observations of the spawning of either of these species in the wild.
BonsaiNut
Premium Member
You can't prove a negative. In other words, for every 100 people who show up here and say "it can't be done - I've tried", there will always be SOMEONE who will think "oh well, maybe I can do something differently".
Far better to say that REGARDLESS of what people have done, there is NO RECORD OF THIS EVER BEING SUCCESSFUL.
Stating something that strongly would tend to bring out tons of proof, if it existed. It does not. What else can you say? Offer a $10,000 reward? I would if I had the cash. However WISHING that you could do something is not the same as doing it.
Think of how many giganteas have been killed trying to "frag" them. Conversely, how many attempts have been made to reproduce them sexually? I am aware of many of the former, and only one of the later.
deangelr
Clown Whisperererer
It may not be this way for everyone... But threads like Phenders are very important. It provides clear evidence of a failed attempt..
Now when people Come on here and start shouting that they are splitting their Anemones, we can point them to a collection of knowledge that says splitting Nems is not a very good idea..
Just yelling at everyone from a soapbox that it can't be done only encourages the problem.. Sparking interest that says "hey maybe I could be the first, or I can figure put how"
Provide people with knowledge and they will listen. Like I said, this is like alchemy and it wasn't until science provde that practice a waste of time that it was finally abandoned..
I have respect for your passion and knowledge of these animals but IMO your attitude is not helping the overall survivability of the species..
Now when people Come on here and start shouting that they are splitting their Anemones, we can point them to a collection of knowledge that says splitting Nems is not a very good idea..
Just yelling at everyone from a soapbox that it can't be done only encourages the problem.. Sparking interest that says "hey maybe I could be the first, or I can figure put how"
Provide people with knowledge and they will listen. Like I said, this is like alchemy and it wasn't until science provde that practice a waste of time that it was finally abandoned..
I have respect for your passion and knowledge of these animals but IMO your attitude is not helping the overall survivability of the species..
BonsaiNut
Premium Member
So you would need photos of slaughtered dogs to be convinced that dogs should not be cut in half? How about pictures of chopped up clownfish to be convinced that clowns only reproduce sexually? Did you even ATTEMPT to read the scientific articles I posted? Did you read the quotes from leading scientists? Instead you think there continues to be value in chopping these creatures up?
Thanks for the coaching on my attitude. Threads like this remind me why I do most of my reefing via private emails.
Toddrtrex
Premium Member
That is not the case, and please do not state your opinion as fact -- because it isn't true.
deangelr
Clown Whisperererer
I was just advising our friend above that if he exlpoits his thread for profit it will get shut down..
and that is IME
deangelr
Clown Whisperererer
Researchers saying they dont beleive it will work.. or comparing cutting anemones in half to the same process as cutting a human in half is not very helpful information..
You keep saying that there are 1000s of attempted failures for every attempted succes.. Well lets document those failures.. And use them as evidence..
deangelr
Clown Whisperererer
Again.. I dont get the point of this Todd.. Did I offend you>?
sometimes I feel like the Vets on this forum really gang up on people whome they dont beleive know what they are talking about..
My activity in this thread is trying to point out that althoguh biolgist and aquraists alike understand that an anemone cannot be fragged.. The reasons and why seem to be unclear, at least to me..
I have read up on articles of anemone biology. I understand the concept that animals that do not normally undergo reproduction through splitting cannot therefore be split and survive
I am trying to point out that if so many attempts have occured to split carpets they are all failures well then lets document those and learn from them.
I wouldnt compare cutting and anemone or killing one to killing a dog or anything of that nature its just not the same IMO.
Maybe I am missing something in the articles tha Bonsai posted but i dont see this information anywhere.
My whole life is reef conservation.. I am just getting started as a biologist and I realize I have a long long long way to go.
I plan on being an active memeber of this forum for a long time so can we please not be so aggresive.
I agree- some very smart people are ignored for the way they come across. I will also point out, many if not most of the people here that have kept gigs have done it for well under 5 years- the splitters death rate is only quicker. Funny how a lot of the experts that lose them are also keeping them in methods they don`t recommend for beginers- small tanks,new tanks, etc etc. A little less attitude and a little more sticking to the fundimentals will allow these creatures to be kept much more easily.
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ousnakebyte
New member
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think many people show up claiming they can do it, try it, but then never report back about their failures (unlike phender) - perhaps for fear of backlash, "I told you so's," or whatever.
It's easy and fun to report the successes - not so much the failures (but no less important).
Cheers
Mike
It's easy and fun to report the successes - not so much the failures (but no less important).
Cheers
Mike
BonsaiNut
Premium Member
Todd is one of the Moderators on the site. I believe he was referring to your comment about people getting booted.
elegance coral
They call me EC
Your words in red above confuse me. You say you don't understand why they can't survive being cut in half, then explain why they can't be cut in half??????
Organisms devote energy and resources to abilities that aid the survival of the species. Life does not waste energy and resources on useless traits or abilities. This is one of the major driving forces in evolution, and can cause change in a very short period of time. (On an evolutionary scale.) Take a bird of flight, place it on an island without land predator's, and it's highly likely it will lose the ability to fly. The bird stops devoting resources to building strong flight muscles, because they are not needed. Organisms that reproduce by division, must devote a great deal of resources to the ability to heal from catastrophic wounds. Those that don't reproduce by division, don't waste their resources on this ability, so they rarely have it. Gigantea is not known to reproduce by division. We have absolutely no reason to assume they would waste their resources on an ability that is not known to aid their way of life. The question should not be, why can't we cut these animals in have and have them survive?. The question should be, What is it about the biology of this animal that would lead us to believe they possess this ability? We have no reason to think they may posses this ability. There's nothing about the biology of this animal that would lead us to believe they possess this ability.
