the guys from tanked and petco are joining forces

[kegogut]

The thing is, they show bad practices.

They never mention cycling apart from "yeah we use these bacteria" and just overcrowd right away.

That's one of their creations... http://gothamist.com/2009/02/19/only_10_of_staten_island_ferry_fish.php

They dont maintain the tanks they build. Its up to the buyer and whoever is doing the maintenance to keep the tank clean of salt build up and everything else.

I dont know how big the tank was but 400 fish does seem a bit extreme.

 

[vitz]

Enthusiasm isnt a bad thing. I personally think that if the show helps create awareness and brings people in to the hobby thats a good thing. A person gets into the hobby and then learns. I dont think any of us on these boards knew everything about this hobby before getting into it. Im still learning almost everyday.

so you wouldn't have a problem showing someone's kid how to drive a car improperly, w/no safety instruction, maintenance instruction, or anything else analogous to the show's behavior, and then watch same kid go out, buy a car, and then start driving?

enthusiasm, misplaced, can not only be a bad thing-it can be disastrous w/out the appropriate knowledge to go along with it

 

[vitz]

i wonder how many millions of fish/coral die yearly just to satisfy some bozo's 'enthusiasm'.

there are far better ways to encourage someone to get into a hobby you think they might enjoy, as well as far better ways to show a view of the hobby/profession. that show is responsible, or will be, for scores of folks getting into aquariums from this 'enthusiasm', merely to end up killing everything they buy, and tossing the tank out to the trash in less than a yr (which is the avg 'lifespan' of an aquarium purchased at an lfs by a typical 'spur of the moment/impulse buying' customer). epic fail on all counts, imo

 

[vitz]

I agree. They are doing good things for the hobby. They even mentioned once on their show that there is more that goes into it than meets the eye.

Sure they're knuckleheads on camera, and the show has stupid side-drama, and almost all the tanks they show on TV are TACKY beyond belief. BUT - if they cause a few people to venture to their LFS who wouldn't be in the hobby otherwise, it's ultimately a good thing for us as existing hobbyists and the stores that support us.

Before anyone cries foul, that they cause deaths of fish, etc. remember there are ALWAYS going to be people who set up aquariums with no regard for livestock health, proper procedure, etc. Tanked won't make or break that segment of LFS clientele.

but it will most certainly enlarge it. no one needs that.

 

[vitz]

well, except for the businesses involved selling the livestock

 

[Geraud]

They dont maintain the tanks they build. Its up to the buyer and whoever is doing the maintenance to keep the tank clean of salt build up and everything else.

I dont know how big the tank was but 400 fish does seem a bit extreme.

This is not about the maintenance, they basically stocked like crazy from day one. Even the best marine biologist could not do much to save the fish (except for urgently removing them).

The problem is that they are basically tank builders trying to become aquarium keepers. Maybe working with the people who will later take care of the maintenance would help a lot.

 

[vitz]

This is not about the maintenance, they basically stocked like crazy from day one. Even the best marine biologist could not do much to save the fish (except for urgently removing them).

The problem is that they are basically tank builders trying to become aquarium keepers. Maybe working with the people who will later take care of the maintenance would help a lot.

i would refine that further by saying they're tank builders pretending to be aquarium keepers

 

[kegogut]

so you wouldn't have a problem showing someone's kid how to drive a car improperly, w/no safety instruction, maintenance instruction, or anything else analogous to the show's behavior, and then watch same kid go out, buy a car, and then start driving?

Thats not even close to a good analogy but are you saying that every kid that goes out,buys a car and starts driving has proper training to get behind the wheel? I know I didnt when I started driving.

And are you saying you knew everything there was to know about the hobby before you got your first tank and that youve never killed a fish/coral?

i wonder how many millions of fish/coral die yearly just to satisfy some bozo's 'enthusiasm'.

there are far better ways to encourage someone to get into a hobby you think they might enjoy, as well as far better ways to show a view of the hobby/profession. that show is responsible, or will be, for scores of folks getting into aquariums from this 'enthusiasm', merely to end up killing everything they buy, and tossing the tank out to the trash in less than a yr (which is the avg 'lifespan' of an aquarium purchased at an lfs by a typical 'spur of the moment/impulse buying' customer). epic fail on all counts, imo

If it wasnt for lfs selling tanks to people there wouldnt be a hobby. As with every hobby theres only going to be a small percentage of people who stick with it and continue to enjoy it.

If the show introduces people to the hobby and a small percentage of those peoples get into it and stay with it then the hobby is better for it.

This is not about the maintenance, they basically stocked like crazy from day one. Even the best marine biologist could not do much to save the fish (except for urgently removing them).

The problem is that they are basically tank builders trying to become aquarium keepers. Maybe working with the people who will later take care of the maintenance would help a lot.

Ive seen a few shows where they work with LFS to help acclimate the fish and keep them until the tank is ready.

I do agree they overstock almost every show.

 

[vitz]

you're putting words in my mouth w/ specious/strawman arguments.

i'd answer w/ 'if everyone jumps off the brooklyn bridge, you would too?'

hobbyists existed before lfs's did, btw

and for the record, my 'killing' learning curve lasted from 7 to about 8 yrs old. then i read my butt off at the local library. doesn't make my killing any less wrong, or wasteful. these bozos do nothing whatsoever to mitigate the false impressions they create, so they're actually hurting the learning curves of others, not helping it.

the very notion that it's 'acceptable' to waste a natural resource for a 'learning curve' is obscene, at best.

 

[vitz]

as far as driving goes, ime 90% of the drivers on the road today aren't qualified to be driving. not even remotely. i was hit by one such driver.

how you get from :
"so you wouldn't have a problem showing someone's kid how to drive a car improperly, w/no safety instruction, maintenance instruction, or anything else analogous to the show's behavior, and then watch same kid go out, buy a car, and then start driving?"

to:
"every kid that goes out,buys a car and starts driving has proper training to get behind the wheel"

is beyond me-i made absolutely no statement about the training level of people who go and buy cars in that above post-i was referring to a situation where someone is shown improperly how to do something by you (hypothetically), and then decides to try and do it himself, w/ none of the experience training you may have

you don't think it's far smarter/wiser to make sure the training/education comes first, before allowing one to act on enthusiasm alone?

 

[Railcar79]

I get a huge kick from the tank Nazis. It must be nice to have a mom and pop nearby to shop from. I got petsmart, petco, and Walmart. I think ATM going to Petco would be great.

As far as the butchery you claim, go scream in a corner. I am in the hobby and I wouldn't watch it if they went in depth on cycle, chosing the proper skimmer, dosing, ect. There are numerous posts explaining behind the scenes, and the hobby is still evolving. For all we know in 20 years we would he barbarians for the way we raise fish today.

Myself, I don't even own a test kit, I buy the fish I like, enjoy myself, and treat my tank like what it is, a hobby, not a job.

 

[vitz]

don't know who you're referring to-i'm certainly no tank nazi-i've spent the better part of 40 yrs trying to help people do things that would avoid them becoming 'tank nazi magnets'

it's about trying to protect the natural resource from this hobby's end for future generations/hobbyists by mitigating completely, un-necessary trashing of livestock due to the likes of the clowns on that show.

you make an awful lot of assumptions about what i or others have available to pick from, and you also had the nerve to start perjoratively

i'm not talking about 'fishkeeping' as a hobby-which is what you are doing. i'm talking about being an aquarist as a hobby. world of difference. my world isn't for you, so you call me a nazi. way to go!

 

[TheGodParticle]

it's about trying to protect the natural resource from this hobby's end for future generations/hobbyists by mitigating completely, un-necessary trashing of livestock due to the likes of the clowns on that show.

Have you ever killed aiptasia in your tank? Treated for majanos, bugs, etc.... yea I bet you have. By doing so you're un-necessarily thrashing livestock as well for no reason. They didn't do anything wrong. Just living out their natural life cycle. They're part of the ocean too. Yup, by my book you are just as bad. Get off your high horse nobody really wants to hear it.

 

[Railcar79]

I call it how I see it, after all it was you who said it doesn't matter what happens behind the scenes, it only matters what airs.

And yes you and many other here are Tank Nazis. If I dont approve of the methods, it is cruel murder for the fish, they should be drawn quartered, and executed live on pay per view. I mean seriously, wake up. The tank Nazis drive more people from the hobby than ich, or the wrong equipment.

Take my build for example. My tank is too small, my sump won't work, not enough rock, I need a calcium reactor, gfo, carbon reactor, I need to dose everything under the sun, I need 15 different test kits, my lights are all wrong.

Every one of those accusations were wrong, dead wrong and would have priced the tank out of my budget. Yet it was experts telling me that.

 

[Geraud]

There is a huge step between being a "tank nazi" and basically doing all the wrong things.

Sure enough, a show where they show you a guy telling "we are going to choose skimmer X over skimmer Y" would get boring. But the problem seems to be that behind the scene there is really little that is done.

Read the Applebee Coney Island articles... "they came straight from the ocean". That does not seem like very good husbandry practice... not even talking about the fact that anybody who has read one line about sharks knows that a tank with "obstacles" is a really bad idea to keep them in.

 

[vitz]

I get a huge kick from the tank Nazis. It must be nice to have a mom and pop nearby to shop from. I got petsmart, petco, and Walmart. I think ATM going to Petco would be great.

As far as the butchery you claim, go scream in a corner. I am in the hobby and I wouldn't watch it if they went in depth on cycle, chosing the proper skimmer, dosing, ect. There are numerous posts explaining behind the scenes, and the hobby is still evolving. For all we know in 20 years we would he barbarians for the way we raise fish today.

Myself, I don't even own a test kit, I buy the fish I like, enjoy myself, and treat my tank like what it is, a hobby, not a job.

btw-it's obvious you didn't read the info link referenced in the link to my other post this is about reckless mistreatment of sharks and fish by bozos pretending to be 'fishkeepers', and the result for those they swindle. do you think the clowns at tanked even checked to see if the restaurant owner even knew shark basics before torturing them? don't forget that sharks as a whole are a highly endangered species group

 

[vitz]

Have you ever killed aiptasia in your tank? Treated for majanos, bugs, etc.... yea I bet you have. By doing so you're un-necessarily thrashing livestock as well for no reason. They didn't do anything wrong. Just living out their natural life cycle. They're part of the ocean too. Yup, by my book you are just as bad. Get off your high horse nobody really wants to hear it.

aiptasias and majanos are threatened species? why aren't you yelling at me for all the pods i might have killed?


oh when oh when will the strawmen go away?....... :facepalm:

 

[Railcar79]

Does the author know that they came right from the ocean? Or could it be that a shark, transported from a holding tank might be disoriented after being placed in a tank? Perhaps you should talk to Tampa Marine, one of those non existant behind the scenes companies, the ones who stock the tank, remove excess and incomparable fish from the tanks as soon as cameras are cut, and maintains the tanks after they leave (like the show mandates from all featured tanks)

 

[accordsirh22]

coming from someone who works at a lfs i can assure you that anyone who comes in and wants a saltwater tank because they saw it on tanked, is not going to do anything right and they do not want to listen to the right way to do it. once i start to halfway explain the proper process they start to get antsy and talk about wanting to cram lots of fish in the day or week they set up the tank. that show needs to die in a fire

 

[vitz]

I call it how I see it, after all it was you who said it doesn't matter what happens behind the scenes, it only matters what airs.

And yes you and many other here are Tank Nazis. If I dont approve of the methods, it is cruel murder for the fish, they should be drawn quartered, and executed live on pay per view. I mean seriously, wake up. The tank Nazis drive more people from the hobby than ich, or the wrong equipment.

Take my build for example. My tank is too small, my sump won't work, not enough rock, I need a calcium reactor, gfo, carbon reactor, I need to dose everything under the sun, I need 15 different test kits, my lights are all wrong.

Every one of those accusations were wrong, dead wrong and would have priced the tank out of my budget. Yet it was experts telling me that.

=anyone who tries to help me out w/good solid advice based on hundreds of yrs of collective experience is mean and evil and out to get me!

sounds more like you have a severe problem w/constructive criticism, rather than being a 'tank nazi' victim.

'tank nazi' i like that term-especially when i was born jewish-has a twisted irony to it

i certainly don't recall telling anyone they *must* go and like my page, or agree w/me, nor am i telling you what or how to do anything-if it's not your cup of tea, don't drink. for this i get called a 'tank nazi' ? :lol: