the guys from tanked and petco are joining forces
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faithenfire
it's all IMO
yes!
and they have the one treat that gets my big baby thru thunderstorms and vet visits
Fwiw, Evo/Innova were bought by P&G a couple of years ago. If it hasn't already, I'd expect the quality of the ingredients to go downhill, even if they don't change the ingredients themselves.
There's a fine line between customer service vs.telling people what they want to hear, good vs poor managers, and teaching employees a decent amount of needed info vs. realising they won't last long and not caring, which unfortunately most of the corporate places don't seem to have found(and then again, a lot of LFS don't seem to know where it is either)
A lot of the time, the management of the store in question definitely tells how good of service a customer will receive. I heard a story on a non-pet forum I used to belong to once where an employee was fired with no warning for telling a customer she couldn't buy a 10 gallon tank set it up that day with a half dozen various species of large growing and non-compatible fish into it without them dying. The customer complained to the manager, the girl lost her job. On the other hand, I've also read stories from people who have managers at chain stores that will allow them to refuse sales to people flat out if they weren't discouraged from buying poor equipment choices because it is cruel. The petco in the town in CO I used to live in went from being more or less decent(the lady who ran the fish department had 3-4 tanks of her own, all well maintained, so she could actually give customers good advice most of the time) to being awful when the manager left. As in they had multiple complaints to the health department and various other government agencies because of how poorly they were taking care of their animals. . .
I will say that it is unfortunate, but it seems that most of the people I run into working at the big chain stores are teens working at a minimum wage job and letting it show. A few know their animals, but a lot of them got the job because the store was hiring, or because it seemed cool at the time. The corporate offices realise that, and a lot of the time figure that spending a large amount of time/money to train an employee who might stay with them for a couple of years at max(or until they see the amount of things they would need to learn to work there!) would be a waste of time and effort. Instead they give them a brief training "course" and tell them to refer to the caresheets, which are not always very well made.
I would definitely agree, though, with the sentiment that locally owned stores can be just as bad. While I still lived in CO, I was thinking of setting up a 14 gallon biocube(so glad I got my 29 instead!) and asked one of the stores which had been in town for longer than I lived there what I could stock it with. Just looking for ideas. Tangs were one of the fish mentioned, and at one of the LFS here in Tampa, while I was looking into my 29, I again, went fishing for ideas(pun intended :spin2: ) and was told again that tangs would be great as a "small" colourful addition(a yellow, apparently, would be fine for its whole life in there, whereas a hippo would eventually outgrow it if I keep up on my maintenance. In about a decade. . . ). When I mentioned that I was only looking for 1-2 fish for the tank, he also said that I could use a shoehorn to stock it(my wording, not his) and if it were his tank he would put 5-6 "medium" sized fish in there. Needless to say, I'm not exactly thinking about taking their advice on the matter of what to put into it.
I really do think that stores in general and the hobby overall would be better if the stores would send customers home with a list of sites to browse through to find out info instead of trying to educate them there. "Oh, hey Mr. Employee, I want to buy an XYZ. What do I need?" Instead of giving them a caresheet that says an "appropriate sized" enclosure, with a few shelved products that say "for XYZs!" on the label, hand them a list of hobbyist made care sheets that can be found online and tell them to read through those(assuming that most people either have internet access at home, or have access to a public library, since all of the ones I've been to since the internet started getting bigger have had free internet access with a free library card.) and a comment to read it all over, then to not necessarily mix and match advice, but to look at the average care requirements of said animal, and use a median of all of that info. Hobbyist made sheet being better because as I see it harped on forums a lot, we generally are more interested in the animal itself instead of trying to sell them something, not to mention that one of the stores in my hometown(which doesn't exist anymore, thankfully!) was famous for selling people a "complete setup" for whatever animal, and then in the case of fish, selling dozens of add ons when the fish kept dying, or in the case of birds/reptiles/small animals which weren't quite as likely to die, upgrades to what he didn't mention was "starter" equipment when the customers bought it. Honestly, if the person is going to be deterred from buying a pet because she's asked to go home and look up care info rather than being spoon fed "this is a fish. You need a fish tank for it. And a fish filter for it. And some fish food." they are likely not going to be someone who stays in the hobby/actually cares for the stuff in their care.
As for Tanked? I've never seen it!
There's a fine line between customer service vs.telling people what they want to hear, good vs poor managers, and teaching employees a decent amount of needed info vs. realising they won't last long and not caring, which unfortunately most of the corporate places don't seem to have found(and then again, a lot of LFS don't seem to know where it is either)
A lot of the time, the management of the store in question definitely tells how good of service a customer will receive. I heard a story on a non-pet forum I used to belong to once where an employee was fired with no warning for telling a customer she couldn't buy a 10 gallon tank set it up that day with a half dozen various species of large growing and non-compatible fish into it without them dying. The customer complained to the manager, the girl lost her job. On the other hand, I've also read stories from people who have managers at chain stores that will allow them to refuse sales to people flat out if they weren't discouraged from buying poor equipment choices because it is cruel. The petco in the town in CO I used to live in went from being more or less decent(the lady who ran the fish department had 3-4 tanks of her own, all well maintained, so she could actually give customers good advice most of the time) to being awful when the manager left. As in they had multiple complaints to the health department and various other government agencies because of how poorly they were taking care of their animals. . .
I will say that it is unfortunate, but it seems that most of the people I run into working at the big chain stores are teens working at a minimum wage job and letting it show. A few know their animals, but a lot of them got the job because the store was hiring, or because it seemed cool at the time. The corporate offices realise that, and a lot of the time figure that spending a large amount of time/money to train an employee who might stay with them for a couple of years at max(or until they see the amount of things they would need to learn to work there!) would be a waste of time and effort. Instead they give them a brief training "course" and tell them to refer to the caresheets, which are not always very well made.
I would definitely agree, though, with the sentiment that locally owned stores can be just as bad. While I still lived in CO, I was thinking of setting up a 14 gallon biocube(so glad I got my 29 instead!) and asked one of the stores which had been in town for longer than I lived there what I could stock it with. Just looking for ideas. Tangs were one of the fish mentioned, and at one of the LFS here in Tampa, while I was looking into my 29, I again, went fishing for ideas(pun intended :spin2: ) and was told again that tangs would be great as a "small" colourful addition(a yellow, apparently, would be fine for its whole life in there, whereas a hippo would eventually outgrow it if I keep up on my maintenance. In about a decade. . . ). When I mentioned that I was only looking for 1-2 fish for the tank, he also said that I could use a shoehorn to stock it(my wording, not his) and if it were his tank he would put 5-6 "medium" sized fish in there. Needless to say, I'm not exactly thinking about taking their advice on the matter of what to put into it.
I really do think that stores in general and the hobby overall would be better if the stores would send customers home with a list of sites to browse through to find out info instead of trying to educate them there. "Oh, hey Mr. Employee, I want to buy an XYZ. What do I need?" Instead of giving them a caresheet that says an "appropriate sized" enclosure, with a few shelved products that say "for XYZs!" on the label, hand them a list of hobbyist made care sheets that can be found online and tell them to read through those(assuming that most people either have internet access at home, or have access to a public library, since all of the ones I've been to since the internet started getting bigger have had free internet access with a free library card.) and a comment to read it all over, then to not necessarily mix and match advice, but to look at the average care requirements of said animal, and use a median of all of that info. Hobbyist made sheet being better because as I see it harped on forums a lot, we generally are more interested in the animal itself instead of trying to sell them something, not to mention that one of the stores in my hometown(which doesn't exist anymore, thankfully!) was famous for selling people a "complete setup" for whatever animal, and then in the case of fish, selling dozens of add ons when the fish kept dying, or in the case of birds/reptiles/small animals which weren't quite as likely to die, upgrades to what he didn't mention was "starter" equipment when the customers bought it. Honestly, if the person is going to be deterred from buying a pet because she's asked to go home and look up care info rather than being spoon fed "this is a fish. You need a fish tank for it. And a fish filter for it. And some fish food." they are likely not going to be someone who stays in the hobby/actually cares for the stuff in their care.
As for Tanked? I've never seen it!
NyReefNoob
skimmer freak
3/4 of your local fish stores are no better then petco, ive always found it funny how many people bash them. they complain about the fish, and disease, qt your fish, do you actually think your local fish store is qt'ing fish for 8 weeks before sticking it in the tanks f/s ?
Dmorty217
Saltwater Addict
+1 if you are looking for what is mentioned above, there is a place called Divers Den on LiveAquaria otherwise forget about it
bigreefnutt
New member
Fish holding systems like in petco are only as good as the employees working them. If they cant keep up on maintaining them systems. When and if ATM dose install new systems they are only going to be as good as the employees maintaining them.
bigreefnutt
New member
you are correct there kimberlee in a way. Except that most LFS dont directly Tranship in. Most LFS are 3rd in the chain of supply. Even petco dosent tranship in they get theres from APET and a few others. But I am glad to say the LFS by me is in the 5%. All saltwater fish get QT before they are put for sale and are all eating before they are put up for sale. I would say there DOA one week after delivery of there orders is maybe 1%
Northside Reef
Premium Member
I could not disagree more. I have watched that show a couple of times and each time I have the basic message of the show is: day 1 "Here is the large body of water we have been working on" Day 2 "here is that same large body of water filled to the brim with fish". I do not think there could be a more destructive message than than that for our hobby.
lhm nole
New member
If you watch every how there is always a outside company who I assume maintains the tank after atm is done filming... They have been using live sand and live water this season unlike past seasons and just throwing a water hose in the tank
slapshot
Active member
For sure a double edge sword. It can improve the education and support the supply chain all the way to the poorest nations in the world. This is the only export of some of those countries. More buyers also means more aquaculture and mariculture. All of those are very positive for the hobby. Having said that, it can also be the down fall of many animals and maybe ultimately the hobby. As we are witnessing in Hawaii right now, we leave ourselves wide open for some legitimate some not so legitimate criticism. It is really time for the retailers to step up the education. Buy a puppy at Petco and you get free training sessions. Most breeders of dogs give free vet visits, contact with training classes etc. Go to a pet store and buy a fish and you get, well you have all read above. The price of some fish approach the cost of a puppy! I have always said I am willing and might not be a bad idea to push for some form of licensing to keep wild caught animals. It would be a good start, and would silence some of our critics. A simple online course would help immensely. Maybe it would end the days of Nemo going home to get dumped into a goldfish bowl filled with fresh water.
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RicanReefLover
New member
johandagentile said:
Now that's staying on topic.
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vitz
New member
vitz
New member
http://lasvegasbadger.blogspot.com/2013/06/tv-show-tanked-tanked-in-applebees-fish.html
"From the New York Daily News:
The new Applebee’s restaurant in Coney Island celebrates its grand opening Monday — and death is on the menu.
A Blacktip shark named Zane had to be removed Friday from the restaurant’s 5,000-gallon aquarium after devouring three Lookdown fish in a shocking killing spree.
That very same day, a Whitetip shark died after colliding with a three-foot Wonder Wheel replica in the tank, leaving employees shaken by the mayhem.
The sharks “were in shock. We moved them in too quickly,” said Applebee’s owner Zane Tankel, who saw the bloodthirsty $4,000 shark, his namesake, hauled to an aquarium in the aptly named Fishkill, N.Y. due to its poor table manners.
“They went from being in an ocean to being in a tank. They were all disoriented,” Tankel added."
more at the linky
"From the New York Daily News:
The new Applebee’s restaurant in Coney Island celebrates its grand opening Monday — and death is on the menu.
A Blacktip shark named Zane had to be removed Friday from the restaurant’s 5,000-gallon aquarium after devouring three Lookdown fish in a shocking killing spree.
That very same day, a Whitetip shark died after colliding with a three-foot Wonder Wheel replica in the tank, leaving employees shaken by the mayhem.
The sharks “were in shock. We moved them in too quickly,” said Applebee’s owner Zane Tankel, who saw the bloodthirsty $4,000 shark, his namesake, hauled to an aquarium in the aptly named Fishkill, N.Y. due to its poor table manners.
“They went from being in an ocean to being in a tank. They were all disoriented,” Tankel added."
more at the linky
vitz
New member
the 'enthusiasm' of the type THEY create is the worst kind of all, as far as leaving anyone watching that show w/ any real conception on how to do things correctly, if they follow their new found 'enthusiasm'
none of what may, or may not happen behind the scenes is relevant. only the end product that airs, as it is, is.
kegogut
Active member
Enthusiasm isnt a bad thing. I personally think that if the show helps create awareness and brings people in to the hobby thats a good thing. A person gets into the hobby and then learns. I dont think any of us on these boards knew everything about this hobby before getting into it. Im still learning almost everyday.
The thing is, they show bad practices.
They never mention cycling apart from "yeah we use these bacteria" and just overcrowd right away.
That's one of their creations... http://gothamist.com/2009/02/19/only_10_of_staten_island_ferry_fish.php
They never mention cycling apart from "yeah we use these bacteria" and just overcrowd right away.
That's one of their creations... http://gothamist.com/2009/02/19/only_10_of_staten_island_ferry_fish.php
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