Turbo snails falling on their backs!!

[PROrion78]

I believe they need 65-70 to live their full life which I believe it's about 10 years. Don't quote me on it though. It's longer than 1 year in cooler waters at least. It doesn't happen only with turbos, but there are a lot of snails that are common to tropical aquariums that also live in cooler waters in nature. This is also thought to be why many saltwater snails climb out of the tank - because they feel the cooler temperature in the air and look for water in that direction. Then again, temperature might not have anything to do with the falling but I suspect it is the reason.

Unless you have a seahorse/stingray tank that's cool for them, I wouldn't bother doing anything about it. If you brought him back to the store he'd be put in another 78 degree tank anyways. Just let him go on doing his thing.

Hi peps just joined and this is my first post on here, hmm really should post in new lol anyway looked into this some time ago as it came up on another forum.

Afro is correct in what he is saying, and there is more, All molluscs need to be acclimatised over several hours, as they have a very fragile and complex internal circulatory system which responds very poorly to rapid changes in salinity. The problem though is that you must trust the whole supplie chain as each time there is a change in water they need to be acclimatised properly.

Now for the next problem, and my own thoughts on turbos.

The chances are the the ones you bought are Astraea Tecta and here is the thing they are from the cool waters of California or Florida and are not suited too our typical marine tanks. Worse still they are pretty much unable to right themselves if they topple over on a 'flatish' surface. In short these guys are a pretty bad idea.

Hope this helps a little, now I suppose I'd better go say hello in the newbe forum.

 

[tdwright1971]

My turbos only seem to last about 2 years. My trochus have been breeding and multiplying. I just decided not to buy anymore turbos as it was my understanding that these come from cooler waters. I try to maintain 76 degrees but sometimes it will go up to 78 or down to 75...

 

[jeff@zina.com]

My turbos seem to start off fine and then die one by one, not all at once. I've put it down to starvation, they wipe the tank clean and it stays clean until they die. But they don't seem to eat anything other than macroalgae that I would feed to them, though it may be they're not fast enough to beat the other snails and clean up crew to any food.

Too bad the sheels are too big for my hermits.

Jeff

 

[A. Grandis]

Hi PROrion 78:
No, the ones I've got are Turbo.
I agree with the salinity/ appropriate acclimating process.

The point here is that they do great for a year or so, sometimes more, and when they die it happens fast and one after the other. No predators, no changes in salinity/ temp and so on...

tdwright71:
One more time... in my tank today, the temp is constant 79K for the year and they die the same way. No fluctuations. Some times they stay for months doing fine, then happens...

Jeff@zina.com:

Yes, that's how it actually happens. They die one by one, but in the same week or so... That's kinda fast...And needs to be for the same reason.
I've tried to make sure and having them with enough algae to eat also, because I thought they were hungry also. But I don't think that's the case.


I think it's something else. Maybe a bacterial disease or something.
Some times they stay on the ground and seems to have a hard time to touch the substrate. Like they feel pain on their foot. They touch the substrate and retract.

I'm careful to mix the salt, when I do, and add the new water slowly for a while because of the shock they could have (salinity/temp).

I maintain the temperature about 79 because it's very close to the temp of the environment from where I collect them from.

I like the reminder about their complex internal circulatory system!

Any more observations?

Thanks guys!!!!

Grandis.

 

[ApexPredator]

I live in South Florida and the water temp here during the summer is down right uncomfortably warm. I was just diving last Friday in warm water and saw plenty of astraea snails on the rocks of the shallow reef. I Have also found these snails living on grass flats in no more than 1' of water which warms up very quickly during the day. From my observations I don't think temps play a role in what is being described here. I do know that where they are found food is very plentiful.

 

[A. Grandis]

Same here in Hawaii with the Turbos. Specially in tide pools!
The Trochus can be found in warmer areas with the run offs (some diluted fresh water from the small rivers and with some sediments).
Also, besides the temperature, sometimes salinity also changes quickly with the very low tides/ evaporation/ hot sun. You still find them in those environments.
Just can't be because of the temp.

I really hope someone that understands about the problem could post.

I thank you all for participating. We are trying to eliminate the points and hopefully will find out the truth.

Does anyone have Dr. Shimek's or Sprung's emails or could call one of them here?

I still believe that must have something to do with a pathogen. Could be a virus, bacterium, or perhaps a fungus of some sort.

Grandis.

 

[disc1]

Hi PROrion 78:
No, the ones I've got are Turbo.
I agree with the salinity/ appropriate acclimating process.

The point here is that they do great for a year or so, sometimes more, and when they die it happens fast and one after the other. No predators, no changes in salinity/ temp and so on...

tdwright71:
One more time... in my tank today, the temp is constant 79K for the year and they die the same way. No fluctuations. Some times they stay for months doing fine, then happens...

Jeff@zina.com:

Yes, that's how it actually happens. They die one by one, but in the same week or so... That's kinda fast...And needs to be for the same reason.
I've tried to make sure and having them with enough algae to eat also, because I thought they were hungry also. But I don't think that's the case.


I think it's something else. Maybe a bacterial disease or something.
Some times they stay on the ground and seems to have a hard time to touch the substrate. Like they feel pain on their foot. They touch the substrate and retract.

I'm careful to mix the salt, when I do, and add the new water slowly for a while because of the shock they could have (salinity/temp).

I maintain the temperature about 79 because it's very close to the temp of the environment from where I collect them from.

I like the reminder about their complex internal circulatory system!

Any more observations?

Thanks guys!!!!

Grandis.

79K??? There's your problem. They're in a block of ice and can't move around.

All kidding aside, Turbo's generally don't last. They die for a multitude of reasons. Don't kill yourself trying to figure it out.

 

[Toddrtrex]

How many do you have, and what size tank?

IMO/E people add way too many "turbos" to their tanks -- I have 2 in my 75, and won't add anymore. The second one (( the first one is way too big )) is moved to my smaller (( 40 breeder )) tank for about a week every other month, and then moved back. If I would leave it in the breeder any longer it would starve.

 

[RVANANO]

I originally had only 4 in my 120 to get rid of the pink cotton candy algae but then after a while it came back so I got 10 or 11 this last time. I would much rather lose the snails than lose all my coral to the algae and they are the only thing that get rid of it I found one on it's back last night and I only got them 2-3 weeks ago.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

first: positively identify your species of snails

second: what are your water parameters. SPECIFICALLY- what is your Mg level at?

Do you dose anything?

 

[abezr]

mine fall when a tang comes near it to pick off some algae growing on their shell, ive seen it many times. Also, when they come to a path of hair algae where they can't seem to find a good grip, they fall too.

thats only from my experience.
hope that sheds some light

 

[steevareno2002]

I've had turbos and trocus snails die shortly after being in my tank too. I used a polyfilter to remove any copper i could not test for and there is no copper, the filter didn't turn blue. My only other guess is that they starved. I'm down to 2 magarita snails When they were alive if one came acrooss some nori it would eat the whole piece in about 4 hours so that's why i assume they all starved.

 

[A. Grandis]

Toddrtrex:
I've got lots of them in a 75gal. system. They are doing fine for a long time. Maybe a year or so. Lost 2 of them last week.

Thanks RVANANO!

Gary:
What would be the worse case scenario with Mg for the snails IYO? High, or low? My Mg is about 1300ppm.
I don't dose anything. Water changes are done weekly (about 10%) Instant Ocena Reef Crystals.
There is no copper at all in the system.
Electricity problem is not the case. I've got a titanium probe for that.
I don't overfeed my system, but feed the fish very well.
I've got small areas with algae going.
79K.
System is doing great. Most snails are alive for a while.
The last death episode I've had was a week ago, but only 2 of them died.
The other are reproducing and I've got small "baby" snails all over the system, including in the sump.

The 2 that died have no explanation for their incident.

Thanks abezr!

wow!
Thanks a lot steevareno2002! I didn't know they would eat nori like that. Are you talking about the margarita snails? Turbo? Or trochus?

Keep coming my friends! Very interesting!
Thanks so much for the help!

Grandis.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

IME extremely high levels of Mg can make certain mollusks lethargic to the point where they can die. Lanthanum chloride can also have a negative impact on certain mollusks. I've seen cases where "rice" snails (the "pyramid" snails that attack Tridacna clams) kill off marine snails.

 

[steevareno2002]

Grandis - The turbos ate nori when they found it. Wow, my Mag is 1500! Maybe there's another cause

 

[A. Grandis]

That's good info Gary. My replacement water stays for a while and by the time it's added to the system the chlorine is gone. I didn't add any additive with chlorine for the past 6 months or so. I don't have any pyramid snails nor clams in the system. Thanks.

Thanks steevarano2002. Yeap, your Mg is high.

Grandis.

 

[abezr]

grandis, it just happens that today I had an epidsode aswell with 3 of my snails dieing and 2 hermits?? weird thing is the two snails i found dead and stinky had something like a bruise on the underside of the shell... i have this feeling that garlic may be the culprit in my tank... been feeding it non stop to my fish and perhaps it rendered my nori bits toxic for them? no idea...

when you purchased your trochus, were they new arrivals at the pet store? the first batch were the last ten left at the petstore and have lasted for 6 months no prob, the next bath was new arrivals + or - 1 day... im blaming that for now...
cant explain my hermits though

 

[A. Grandis]

abezr:

I don't have hermits and don't believe in garlic for parasites, so I don't feed it to my fishes. My fishes are all parasite free because of the quarantines and treatments, if needed, before introduced to the systems.

There is garlic in one of the flakes I offer them, but not too much.
I don't think you should blame the garlic for the lost of your snails because many people have/had the same problem without the garlic in the fishes' food. Even before garlic came to the "fashion" in the market the problem with the snails were there!

Nori should be without additives, like spices etc...

I don't buy my snails. I collect them from the wild.
The range of my snails' live span in the tanks has been between 2 days to 3+ years.

I'm still searching to see if anyone else comes with different thoughts.

Where is Dr. Shimek?

Thanks again!!
Grandis.

 

[RVANANO]

My Mag is at 1350 but after someone posted about the yellow tang knocking them off, I suspect that could be my issue as my tang is always pecking at rocks for algae etc. I bet he has picked on a few of the snails even though I haven't witnessed it.

 

[A. Grandis]

RVANANO:
I don't think the snails would die because of that. They could fall and stay for a while. Most of the time when that happens because of the Tangs, or even because of the sudden flash when light goes on, they are able to flip over. There is no harm to the snail nor shell when the Tangs graze on them or such.
If they fall on sand it's very, very hard for them to flip over. Then we would need to give them some help to turn over. They still go on with their own thing and don't die. When that happens they can stay long time, but they don't die.

My point here is when they fall and stay until they die. They can't touch any surface with their feet.

Thanks!

Grandis.