Turbo snails falling on their backs!!

[Mike P]

I have also noticed a lot of my Turbos climbing for the surface of the water. I noticed it, but never really thought much about it. I really don't think it's a temperature thing either. With good flow, wouldn't most of the tank be pretty even? If anything, wouldn't the surface would be a lot warmer due to lighting?

What kind of substrate is everyone using? I use a fine Bahama aragonite sand. It's seems as though when/if they do fall, or they aren't on a rock, they either can't get footing back, or the sand gets caught in their foot and they lay there helpless.

I'm not sure which snails do what (to different substrates), but I have noticed different things that happen to the sand when different snails run across it. Do Turbos give off a different slime than say Nassarius'? Maybe they have a hard time with the sand?

Just throwing some more things out there that I have noticed. Maybe it will help brainstorm a bit. I'm also going to test my Mag/Cal tonight and see how that is. Mine aren't dying, however they do all stay at the top and never come down.

 

[A. Grandis]

Hummm...
When they go to the top normally is to reproduce, sometimes due to any small chemical change in the water. That would be normal. Most of the time happens at night or early morning.
Turbo spp. don't stay around the surface that much.
In regards to the substrate/ ability to get back on foot I know that Turbos would have a hard time because of the size/ weight of their shells.
I have Bahamas aragonite today, but had all types of substrates before and they were having the same difficulty to come back on their foot, if they fall on their backs. Bare bottom, coral gravel, coral sand...

The point here, one more time, is when they fall and they die. No matter what.

Even if you put them back on the rock or glass they can't touch the rock.
They retract their feet like they having pain. They try to touch, but they retract. And die.

Yes, the sand makes very hard for them to come back up. Indeed.

People: try to observe your falling snails. Put them back on the rock and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Maybe only my snails are doing that?

I have this problem for many, many years with different types of systems...

Thanks very much for the interesting points, Mike P!

I still think it's a bacteria or a virus problem.

Grandis.

 

[andrewk529]

I have always placed the upside-down turbos back onto the substrate (sand) right side up in my system.I noticed a high mortality rate as well with the specie or species. I always attributed the death to lack of food or sensitivity of the molluscs.Very interesting topic which many would dismiss; I personally always wondered why the snails would have the inability to right themselves.

 

[A. Grandis]

Thanks for stopping by, andrew529!

Yeah. My system now has lots of algae for them to graze and today I saw a small one laying there. I turned it. I think he will be fine. We never know when is the time that they will actually die, not being able to touch the substrate.

Among the subjects that people bring up when we talk about it is: acclimation, temperature and starvation.

Sometimes that's the case, but many times is something we really can't explain.

I'm running after the explanation for the "painful foot symptom".

We'll see if someone can come with the answer.

...

Grandis.

 

[Dadekster]

I simply don't buy snails that can't right themselves. I remember reading somewhere a while back that unless the bottom of your tank is nothing but rockwork and or rubble you should not buy snails that can't right themselves. This is because snails from the reef, when they do fall, (and they at some point will sooner or later) will almost always fall in rockwork that will let them pull themselves upright by grabbing something nearby. Snails from lagoons or sand bottom areas can't count on this so they have evolved the ability to twist themselves back onto their feet.

So basically snails that fall on their back and can't turn themselves over and then die because something either swam by and took a bite out of them (I mean who wouldn't, it's like a steak on a plate) or died of starvation since you didn't see them it 2 weeks die, because we have put them in an environment that's not suited to them.

Personally I have gotten tired of having to replace them since LFS charge 2-5 bucks for snails these days and they'll continue to sell them as long as people buy them. So I just buy self righting snails. Odd thing is they always seem harder to find. Go figure.

For what its worth I stay away from the so called margarita snails since they are cold water intertidal snails.

 

[A. Grandis]

Well...
The turbos I've got had a problem of falling on their backs when my system had only rocks and rubble also. So I know that's not the problem. I see your point here.
The issue is not the sand because in most cases when I turn them right (sand or rubble) they can't grab the rocks again. Their feed act like it's hurting or stinging somehow. That's my point with the thread. I still think it is some microbe related problem in that case. Not starvation for sure.
Thanks for your addition!!!
Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

gotta watch out for these guys!

?

 

[tmz]

The Mexican Turbos are from waters at sub tropical temperatures and don't do well in normal reef tank temperatures long term. The same is true for margarita snails .

 

[A. Grandis]

Hi Tom,
What would be the suggested temperature for those?
What temperature do you suggest for the tropical snails?

Everybody is welcome to post the suggested temperature for each species of herbivore snails.

That's gonna be interesting!
Thanks,
Grandis.

 

[tmz]

here is a lind on the maragrita pupillis:

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/SwSnails/Margarita.php

This is from it:

As mentioned above, it is important not to house Margarita snails in warm aquariums. The recommended temperature range is 50-60° F / 10-15° C, but some aquarists have successfully kept this species in temperatures up to 68° F / 20° C. The pH-value should be in the 8.0-8.4 range and the specific gravity at 1.023-1.025.

 

[tmz]

Dr Shimek offers these comments on mexican turbos in Marine Invertebrates. pg296:

"..some snails offered for sale,particularly those collected in Mexico are sub tropical
animals and do not survive well when housed in normal fee temperatures ..."

Regarding margaitas (Tegula funebrailis) he notes:

"...They come from the rocky intertidal of the Pacific Coast of North America . Cn tolerate short periods of warm water in the summer in nature , Can survive a few eeks or months in areef tanks ,then they die form being slowly "cooked". Annual rings indicate tehy may live well over 100 years in their natural habitat.."


At one point or another I've had both. My tanks are kept at 77 F with swings to 76 and 80 . Maragritas didn't last very long. The mexican turbos last several mos to a year . I have indo pacific turbos and astrea and trochus that are several years old. There is poor foraging in my tanks since they don't have much algae but then I only keep a few snails anympore.

BTW, imoaAcclimating sg for these animals is important as they are isotonic and can not osmoregulate.

 

[A. Grandis]

Ok, that one is way far from what we keep.
I would like to know about the personal experiences with the Turbo, Astraeas and Trochus spp.
That would be more realistic.
This is mostly about the Turbos.
Thanks, tmz.
Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

An update on the subject.

Last episode I had they died during a small diatom's bloom.
The bloom happened after I've tried water from a RO system. I think the RO resin released silicates. Could be also/or a possible release of phosphates from the carbon installed in the same filtration system. That filtration system is for people to drink, from a local healthy store.

All snails died during the bloom. They died fast and the only thing changed was the makeup/top off water. After I've solved the diatoms' problem, changed for the tap water I used before, I placed 3 snails in the system and everything looks fine to this date.

Today I dose kalkwasser to help maintain my coralline algae and alkalinity stable. I have no hard corals and therefore the calk reactor is used mildly dripping about 2 hours at night.
I'm also dosing very tiny amounts of Mg, iodide, vitamins, amino acids and I feed my zoanthids once a week with dry coral food like Reef Roids and Coral Frenzy. The partial water changes are done even other week and sump is cleaned every month and a half or two months to remove the excess of detritus.

Coraline algae is growing much better and I still have some regular brown type of algae growing on glass and pumps, so the snails still have some food.

I've got 3 medium sized Turbos that are doing very good and behaving normally for now. They didn't reproduce yet and I have them for about 3+ months now.

So one more thing to look for is the excess of diatoms. I believe the problem was because of a possibility of poisoning from toxins released by the diatoms.

Grandis.

 

[Drdavis]

Turbo's alive or dead?

Turbo's alive or dead?

How do you make sure your turbo's are alive? I really do not want to let them foul my water and it has been two days since two of them have been on the glass. The strange thing is that they were just spawning two days ago. Since there are articles that say snails can sleep for three years I do not want to get rid of them if they are still alive but I also do not want them to foul our water.

 

[tmz]

If they don't move ;pick them up and look at the bottom to see if they are still able to close up. If they are holding on to the surface they are alive. Or take very small a whiff when you have them out of the water; they smell very nasty when decomposing.

 

[A. Grandis]

Hi tmz! Ho are you? Happy New Year, my friend!!
Agreed about the snails!

Drdavis:
Yep, like tmz said, main thing is to make sure they're attached to the hard surfaces (glass, rocks, etc.). They do smell crazy disgusting when dead!!!

Quick update about my snails:

Two of the three that I had were released back in the ocean because they were growing too fast. They didn't have time to reproduce in the system, as far as I know to this date.

The one snail remaining is doing just great and the system is very clean of algae, which means that I shouldn't get any more snails because there is not much food to offer to them.

No major changes, like chemistry, have been noticed since the last update, in September.
A chiller was added to the system to keep temperature between 77°F and 79°F. No more air conditioner. Same temperature was maintained before the chiller with the AC. Other things like the maintenance schedule are the same. No additions to the system since then.

Grandis.

 

[Big E]

I would stick with astreas & trochus.........especially banded (black foot)trochus because they can turn themselves over & handle the higher temps better. Trochus are pricier but well worth it as they are the best algae eaters too.

It's all about tempurature in my experience. I run 76-78 and my astreas have spawned many times. I've got hundreds of baby astreas.

When I ran higher temps the astreas never lasted more than 3-6 months.

 

[djroxy]

Turbo snails on their backs...here u go...

Turbo snails on their backs...here u go...

Turbos r VERY sensitive to magnesium. They can only handle 1380 tops. Chk your tank.....marc

 

[m2434]

Turbos r VERY sensitive to magnesium. They can only handle 1380 tops. Chk your tank.....marc

+1 :beer: I had this same issue, they were basically falling off the glass and acting drunk. After searching I found some info on WetWet Media. I then realized that I had raised my mg too high. Lowered it and all was well again. As to temp, I think that is more acclimation, I've always run my tank warm and have lots of turbos with no issues, other than from high mg that one time. I do also see them die off sometime when algae runs out, they eat a lot, you really don't need many.

 

[A. Grandis]

I would stick with astreas & trochus.........especially banded (black foot)trochus because they can turn themselves over & handle the higher temps better. Trochus are pricier but well worth it as they are the best algae eaters too.

It's all about tempurature in my experience. I run 76-78 and my astreas have spawned many times. I've got hundreds of baby astreas.

When I ran higher temps the astreas never lasted more than 3-6 months.

Thanks very much, Big E!
I've been running 77/79°F with a chiller lately (last 3 years). Had air conditioner and the temp was around about there... The problems I'm referring about aren't temperature related because there we no changes while that was happening. Still a very important point, as others have said also.

I understand about the other genus being better options. I just wonder why Turbos do have a problem with their food after a while and other genus don't. Besides their size and harder to turn, their feet don't stick to the rocks after a while, when we place them back on the rocks. Some times they fall on other rocks and stay there. Touch the rocks and retract for many times. That's what the problem is.

Thanks again!

Grandis.