Worm's S. Gig

With running carbon, any attempted cou`p, to be the dominant anemone will be washed/filtered away. I even have the capability to run two chambers of carbon.

LOL

In my system right now I have (in order of palcement) LTA, Ritteri, RBTA, Haddoni.

They get along fine.

I am really trying to document the treatment and hopefully will have a better write up at the end with some pro's and con's with some lessons learned too.
 
It finally updated Day 7.

Day 8 in the process of uploading.

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Sorry for my slow internet connection. One would think they would have run FIOS out all over the place here in DC by now.... NO...... Not in DC.... :/
 
Day 8 (thursday)

Take a look 7:30 forward. During this time frame it really tries to get rid of what I can only say the last bit and it is mostly a dry heave. (sorry for the usage of human terms). A little but comes out and it tries to take some tentacles and get the rest out.

Interesting.

Do you have any thoughts or ideas?

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Day 8 (thursday)

Take a look 7:30 forward. During this time frame it really tries to get rid of what I can only say the last bit and it is mostly a dry heave. (sorry for the usage of human terms). A little but comes out and it tries to take some tentacles and get the rest out.

Interesting.

Do you have any thoughts or ideas?

I noticed the same happening with my gigs. I think "dry heaving" really is a good description. I noticed that the dead zoox slowly collects right under the surface of the disc, then radiates inward toward the mouth where it is expelled. In other words, it's not ingested and coming from the nem's "bowels" but more from the skin itself.

I think this further illustrates why -- about six months to a year ago when we saw a bunch of them -- the bleached gigs had a better survival rate than the fully colored up ones. With nothing to expel, the bleached gigs could focus on rebuilding their zoox population.

Though the typical recommendation is 7-10 days of treatment with Cipro, I definitely recommend keeping yours in QT until it stops deflating and expelling dead zoox for at least a few days. Keep up the good work, and as always... best of luck!
 
Thanks... It has not 'deflated' in the sense compared to day 1-4. So that is a good thing. While I am at the 3+ day after last deflate, I will wait to put it in the DT.

I know that being in a live tank with live items and better lighting will help in the long run.

Today/night I will not do any cipro and see how it reacts.
 
Worm, I'm just curious about your lights... How high off the tank are they, and at what %? How long (hours) of exposure? I know you've changed them since you got it, I'm just wondering where they are now. What is the flow from? How many GPH pumps? How many pumps? I'm curious, that's all... :)

Also, can we have some details on the water quality "control"? What's the water change schedule and % of change? Cipro is done, right? How many days did you cipro? Are there other media's you're using? Again, I'm curious to attempt to understand, that's all. I've seen all the video's, and watched the cam (thanks by the way!) and I'm just wondering about the "mechanics" behind the scenes. Thanks. :)
 
Not a problem... Lets get started up to last night:

Water change:
Day 1-2 I was doing 50%.
Day 3-current I have been doing 100%
The reason I changed was a lot of debri and once I started it looked 100% compared to doing 50%. I know there is still stuff floating around even with 50%, so I kept up 100% to reduce what was in the water. Most water changes were at lights out, a few were done during the day/ morning due to amount of particles in water.

Water:
RODI with SG at 1.026 (+/- .001)
Airated/circulated with MJ1200 pump
Heated to 80 degrees, since doing 100% did not want anemone to be at 50 degrees.
I have done DT water a few times also, mixing it up, I have not seen any change in reaction either on camera or video from change. Frankly I can not remember the dates I did DT, and just now looking back at all the video, I can not tell, as there is no physical change.

Pump:
1x mj1200 on 24/7

Lights:
Radion set to 8 %.
Day 1-2 was at 30% (too much)
Day 3+ at 7-8%
Heigth is about 6 inches off water.
Lights on at noon and off at 1900. First 1.5 hour is a slow ramp to 12k working through the blue. At 1900 OFF, no ramp down.

Cipro:
1x 250mg tab put in after 100% water change, reguardless of time of day. Most water changes were at lights out, a few were done during the day/ morning due to amount of particles in water. The past two days (FRI and SAT) I have not put cipro in tank. Last was Thurs at Lights Off/WC.

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Thanks on the video and cam comments.

I am thinking of putting that cam near the 120 with a view on the gig, when it gets put into the DT.

That might be as early as Sunday. Need to get it moving. Will do a WC this evening with only DT water.
 
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Day 9

About 7:00+ again tryign to get last bit out. It is doing a really good job at working on it. It is nice to see!!

No cipro yesterday and none today.

Looking to move it into the DT on Sunday.
 
Thanks for the info. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes, I know too many cooks in the kitchen can "spoil the meal"... And, I've been biting my tongue the last week... But, in my book, at the 7+ minute mark of the video you just posted, that's a deflate (again, in my book with a fresh arrival). I would be really careful adding that guy to the DT too early. IMO, Sunday is too early. Again, I don't want to offend, or step on toes. I know you have some great people helping you through, and I'll not post any more opinions of mine after this post, but I think I'd be really careful adding this guy to the DT too early. IMO, it should increase in size when lights come on, stay that way ALL day, and reduce size (not go flat or floppy) at night (still firm, just smaller). Yours looks pretty good at night, from what I've seen, (at times, almost looks better size at night) but because your lights are too close to the water's surface, it's struggling to adapt to daytime lights - all day - and not shrink. It does look good a large portion of the day, don't get me wrong. In the email I sent you last week, I mentioned I'd raise that light up 6"... Now, I think I'd raise it up a whole foot... more than you currently have it... Again, I know you didn't, but just what I'd do. I know you don't want to... up to you. (the battle of too many cooks with differing opinions). I feel raising it will better blend the led's. Just my thoughts, I'm pretty sure your light has UV in it, maybe it's too much too close. I fully understand, gigs can handle more light than we can provide, (when healthy) AND need tons of it to look good, but it takes time and acclimation, some more than others. Some can go full bore out of the gate, while others can take weeks to months. There comes a point though, more light MUST be given for it to improve. It needs to be inflated 100% all the time, before lights are ramped up. Just like us, some of us can run miles today, some would die from a heart attack. We are not all in the same shape or condition. Takes time to train for a marathon. (my wife is a personal trainer, works out all the time, I can out run her any day, and have, distance and speed, I don't regularly excercise). Every one is built differently.
Now flow, I'll leave this one alone. Better too much flow than not enough, but I will say this, yours is getting much more flow than the one's I have in my DT.
Final one. Water changes from a DT with other anemone's in it, isn't proven bad, but MAY have things in it from other nems that don't agree with a new arrival. It may be ok, BUT, IF there's things in it that don't agree, the recovery won't go as well, or easy as it could. Why chance it. Everyone's tanks are different, what works for some, won't work for others. IF it was mine, ONLY fresh SW would be used, until I was happy with the recovery, (100% inflated all the time, not 100% size all the time)THEN I would use DT water to acclimate it where it's going. Just what I would do - OCD. Salt is cheap, compared to the nem and the effort.

Again, no disrespect to anyone, just trying to help. I know the guys behind the scenes with you are fully capable and experienced, but from where I'm sitting, just how I see it. I really DO want to see you bring this guy back, and bring it to "full glory" again. Bottom line, we ALL want to see the same thing. 100% inflation all the time. NOt 100% size all the time, but 100% inflation all the time. (I know, there's always the exception it deflates one day, then looks great for months later).

The mouth. I can't see it, it tells part of the story too. You may be seeing a nice tight mouth all the time, but the few times I've seen it.....

Worm, you alone see it first hand everyday, and have the best perspective. You’ve got to go with your own thoughts. The things I am seeing may not be accurate to real life. Maybe in person, you're seeing them progress better than I'm seeing. If you feel Sunday is a good move, then I hope you're right and wish you the best. Again, I'm sorry if anyone is offended by my opinions. Not my intension. Only trying to help. Just my .02
 
I also think at about 7:30 mark, you anemone deflates. He looks great the rest of the day.
I have always treat my anemone HT with water from DT, with multiple anemones in it. This have never give me any problem.
I do have less light, a lot less than you most of the time, but do have full sunlight for about 4-5 hrs or so, and have less flow in my DT. I use a smaller PH bounce it against the top of the water and the wall, not directly toward the anemone.
 
There are some very good comments in there Taylor. I think it's important to share your knowledge. I will be switching to using fresh salt water rather than water from the display tank as my one does look very good this morning and maybe that's because of the point about having multiple nems while in the recovery period. Worm has a massive advantage with his time lapse videos in that he can see everything that happens. Most of us don't have this, I inly get to see mine between 7pm and midnight and everytime I was home it was looking fantastic which is why I moved it into the display tank so quickly. Maybe I missed it deflate. People like me especially need a firm kick as well to listen to others advice. In hindsight I should have put it in treatment again a lot sooner. I guess I was in denial and hoping for the best.
 
No offence taken. If I was to take offence I would not be posting and sharing my experiences.

I will leave it in the QT for a while.

The major reason I want to do a DT water change is it will eventually need to get in that water and the lack of exposure to it now will be a sudden shock on it's system when it is put in.

I agree they look like deflations, but to me a deflation is more of a flat piece of paper look, not keeping its structure.

I am in no rush, the color is reducing more and more daily, from day one, which is a concern of mine.

The stringy and xooanthae has gone to almost zero floating in the tank.

I have increased the height again in the tank.
 
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During some maintenance I turned off the pump.

Wanted to get a pic/video anyway. Here is the mouth and some tentacle reactions during pump off.

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Keep on commenting. Do not worry about being critical and please out your ideas out there. I am wanting this to live, not some bedside etiquette telling me that things will be ok.

Thanks fellow reefers.
 
Thanks worm. Again, I'm sorry if my post seemed a bit harsh - didn't mean it that way. Sometimes I speak my mind with out thinking how to deliver it nice. I live with girls that tell me I'm mean all the time... I'm working on it!

We're all pulling for your gig to recover. :) Like I told you before, I'm one of your biggest fans, and appreciate reading the help you give to others, your advice/intentions are always good. I really want to see you succeed with this.

It loosing color is my/our least concern. I know you don't think those are deflates, but I've seen tooooo many, I know what I'm staring at now. Someone needs to step up here. I don't want to be that guy, but here I am... For a gig, those are deflates. Staying inflated 24/7 is my biggest concern. It will regain color no problem, if it lives. Takes time, and needs to stay inflated to pass time. If it doesn't stay inflated, color won't matter, ever. It shouldn't be struggling like this so far into the game. I'm impressed it's made it so far with the intensity it's gotten, to be honest... Tells us it's a fighter. Like I said, everyone's different, and that one you've got needs a good internal flushing, still. IMO. If that guy you have was mine, it is still over one week, maybe two, from me even thinking about going to DT, and that's if it never deflates from here on out, and the mouth is closed all the way in that time frame also - all the time. I still believe 100% water changes everyday will be your nem's best friend too. What a hastle... I know!

Just to give you some insight as to why I feel the way I do about lighting... I want to show you my HT.
Bear with me, I'm going somewhere with all this... Just to give a peek inside of my OR... This is my 10 gallon, with a HOB filter with no media, just a surface scum skimmer. Not really doing anything but skimming the surface scum and moving a little water. I have an air stone in the back of it, poor man's oxygenator. Then a heater, and the smallest korillia I think they make. Very low flow. My lights are (2) runs of 12, (24 total LED's) of 3 watt cree, xre (old school from a few years ago, not the strong ones they sell now) with both white and blue on dimmers, seperate drivers. Manually dimmable.






Here's my driver dimmers. It's DIY, so not pretty. It works.


I run mine 9 hours, right out the gate, LOW INTENSITY. I'm blessed (or cursed, depending on the side of the fence you're on) to be self emplyoyed, so I've been able to be home with new arrivals, and see how they adapt to the lights throughout the day, and make manual adjustments on lighting as I see how they can handle it. I'm using (24) 3 watt cree LED's, which puts me around 72 watts, (less, I've got a couple burned out) which is about 100 watts less, I believe, than the fixture you're using. Isn't the radion 175 watts or so? I think? I start mine at about 5%, and slowly ramp it up on day one, until I see them start to shrink in size, then back it down to 75% of that. That's my starting LED intensity. Usually it's around 15-20% (of 72 watts). If it deflates later in the day and I catch it deflated, lights are out that second, for the rest of the day. (no lights fo you! next!) I back down the lights a little more, and we try again the next day, until they go all day with no deflate. One thing is sure. I can make any and every gig in my QT, so far, shrink by turning my lights too high. That's how I find their "breaking point", then back it down. I've done this with more than a few now. :) So far this works very well.
When I'm ready to move mine to my DT, the HT lights are usually turned up to around 25-40% area by then, and they are starting to color up. It's not super intense. Super intense light comes later, after it's gained some color, then you can put the screws to it. Needs to stay inflated before this, and during all the light cycle. IMO, one week of absolutely NO deflation (IMO) for them to be welcomed into the DT.


Worm, you've been doing a great job so far, I know it's a lot of work. Don't give up! We're all cheering you on! I still think yours will make it, but it's got to start staying inflated 24/7. It's not, yet. Watching your cam, my gut is telling me it's still your lights. Water quality, only you can know that, and you have the experience for it, so non-issue, you know what you are doing. When it comes to DT water acclimation, it pales in comparison to light acclimation, IME. I have to agree with Minh, gigs aren't tough to keep, once acclimated and healthy. Getting them healthy, and acclimated is typically tough to do, and lots of work and time, but worth it! But, there's always that one that drops right in to the DT under the 1000 watt MH and does great. Not the norm. Doesn't take a degree to find thread after thread of dead gigs. Now with cipro, the biggest hurdle to overcome, IMO, is acclimation.

Everything I've typed is my opinion/my experience. Nice thing about cipro, it's like a reset button. Gig deflates all the time now? Reset. After reset, then acclimation. Thanks Doc (Minh). :)

I'm just trying to give you the best chance of your gig's survival from what I've done in the past, with great results, with what is in my opinion, the best chance of success. I've read a lot, I've talked a lot, I've killed a lot. Now, I feel I've learned a lot. One reason I hate responding to threads, too many details, and one detail left out can make a huge difference. Are 100% water changes really needed? Maybe not, but I feel everything I do just adds to the chances of a gig making it, and if it's one little detail that gets it over the hump, it's a win.

Best of luck my friend. :) That last pic you posted, the top down, looks good. I really think this guy will make it, but it's a long road ahead. :)
 
OK took light down even more...

It is at 5% right now.

At about 6 inches off water.

I do not think I can take it any lower, but I will see, with out it cutting out.

YES... I appreciate and look for the comments.

Just like that person the other day, who did not think we were wrong, his anemone is gone now.

Listening takes more than ears.

Thanks!
 
I think it may be a better quality light if you raise it up 2', and turn it up a hair so it doesn't flicker then. That light you're using is a real power house.
 
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