47G SPS...Revamp

[reefmutt]

I can't imagine a pair of anthias could cause that much of an ammonia spike.. I guess maybe.. Not a huge volume of water.. But even if there were, the fish may not be happy but I would assume the corals would actually like it.. Assuming it's not drastic..
I wouldn't be so quick to blame it on the anthias..
Sahin, it seems to me that you have been running the tightrope of low/just enough nutrients..
If everything check out as per Andrew, maybe it's simply low nutrients..

 

[markalot]

I don't have near the experience as you but I'll blab and see if it helps. My base STN issues always occur when nutrients drop too low, as just happened due to me injuring my back and not feeding for a few days. I lose tops to STN when Alk gets too high.

So, when the Anthias died, did you cut back on feeding or change anything else that might account for it? Perhaps overreacting to the fish death that ended up dropping nutrients too low? It seems to me that while the dead fish might increase measured nutrients in the tank it won't feed the acros.

 

[DiscusHeckel]

I had STN episodes twice in the past. On both occasions, I was dosing my tank with white vinegar. STN happened in two completely different set ups. The only explanation I could come up with at the time was that organic carbon dosing lowered nutrients too low a level. Hence, I am in agreement with both Matt and Mark that nutrient levels must have played a part.

Having said that there is no agreed cause for STN in the literature.

I would carry out a series of water fairly large changes, raise the light unit (or reduce its intensity) and run good quality carbon passively (1/2 (UK) cup of carbon). You may even consider running poly filter instead of GAC. I would also keep feeding my fish generously.

Good luck and I hope that you overcome your difficulties without further casualties.

 

[shih87]

Some friends in Taiwan also report STN recently, I wonder some of them may not aware season change cause new water (usually put outside) too cold but still use exactly same method for water change as summer time.

Also read advice from one very senior reefer in RC, some STN better do nothing and wait it pass. I am sure Sahin you will overcome this and share your experience to the rest of us.

Hope good news soon.

 

[mhucasey]

I had STN episodes twice in the past. On both occasions, I was dosing my tank with white vinegar. STN happened in two completely different set ups. The only explanation I could come up with at the time was that organic carbon dosing lowered nutrients too low a level. Hence, I am in agreement with both Matt and Mark that nutrient levels must have played a part.

Having said that there is no agreed cause for STN in the literature.

I would carry out a series of water fairly large changes, raise the light unit (or reduce its intensity) and run good quality carbon passively (1/2 (UK) cup of carbon). You may even consider running poly filter instead of GAC. I would also keep feeding my fish generously.

Good luck and I hope that you overcome your difficulties without further casualties.

I've done a lot of research and some experimenting with this and I'm pretty convinced that STN occurs when the normaly benign Vibrio sp bacteria on the corals surface begin to attack the "connective tissue" that binds the coral to the skeleton(there is a name for this tissue but I can't remember it right now).

This happens when the population of bacteria spikes up. I have seen it many times when there is excess organic carbon in an otherwise nutrient poor tank. One other element that appears to trigger it at least for me is iron. In fact, I am convinced that many of the STN cases in tanks with aggressive GFO or too many Zeovit stones has nothing to do with "nutrients dropping too fast" but are caused by iron-fueled bacteria.

I've reversed it before with antibiotic dips and sometimes by fragging farther up the branch then gluing the edge. Once the bacteria get under the skin they just keep going so you have to cut the leading edge of the damage away.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

Very good information from all these previous post's. Definitely post a picture of where the stn is coming from. Its not bad to do a WC either.. I hope everything is working out !

 

[Ancelot]

Learning more lessons here than anywhere else. Hope you're able to ride through this Sahin. You've been inspiring!

 

[reefmutt]

I've done a lot of research and some experimenting with this and I'm pretty convinced that STN occurs when the normaly benign Vibrio sp bacteria on the corals surface begin to attack the "connective tissue" that binds the coral to the skeleton(there is a name for this tissue but I can't remember it right now).

This happens when the population of bacteria spikes up. I have seen it many times when there is excess organic carbon in an otherwise nutrient poor tank. One other element that appears to trigger it at least for me is iron. In fact, I am convinced that many of the STN cases in tanks with aggressive GFO or too many Zeovit stones has nothing to do with "nutrients dropping too fast" but are caused by iron-fueled bacteria.

I've reversed it before with antibiotic dips and sometimes by fragging farther up the branch then gluing the edge. Once the bacteria get under the skin they just keep going so you have to cut the leading edge of the damage away.

This made me think of something that has happened twice to me in the past 6 months.
On two occasions, I have purchased frags from two different vendors. When the frags went into my system, they never had good polyp extension nor did they begin encrusting. They just sat there and did poorly. In fact, the frags began to recede very slowly from the bases. Since they were frags, I removed them and clipped off the recession and reglued them in the same place. Within days, they were better expanded and began encrusting like I would expect..
Clearly, this was not caused in my tank and I don't know what was causing the recession but just by removing the effected parts, the corals made a rapid recovery..
I have dosed iron along with using Color Elements (which also contains some iron) and never experienced corresponding base recession but maybe because of my fuge, the iron never stays around long enough to have an effect...

Maybe, if the corals can't be removed, simply putting a ring of epoxy glue around the recession area, you could stop it dead in its tracks..

 

[sahin]

Thanks and Sorry...

Thanks and Sorry...

Feel embarrassed here...the STN was a FALSE ALARM. Thank you all for the suggestions/advice/discussion below.


So...what happened or what made me panic is as follows:

STN False alarm 1: Two of my acros (millepora) decided to fight each other at the bases. I looked today and those parts are now healing with one having gained some slight ground.

STN False alarm 2: I did a LOT of fragging of the larger pieces over the past week or so...a small branch of one of the corals landed on my Red Planet; of course the Red Planet killed it. It fell in such a way ie lying in the same direction as the Red Planet's own branches that it looked like the Red Planet has started to STN right in the middle of the colony. The Red Planet has been grown from a 1inch frag into two large colonies and has been through a tank crash/AEFW and other dumb moments of mine...so for it to have started to STN signalled big problems with my tank.

Anyway, both of those led to me to assume the worst. I decided to take a closer look a the "STN" on the Red Planet and thats when I noticed that the STN'd piece wasnt even part of the Red Planet. :lol::lol::lol: I used a tweezer and lifted the "joke" piece out and smiled.

So, thank you everyone. I appreciate the your posts. :thumbsup: I am just glad that my corals are alright.

As far as all your comments; most of all your ideas where things that went through my head; it shows the willingness of the members to help and also the valuable knowledge we have. :beer: Thanks again.

Until we work this out don't run your full lighting mate. Stressed acros don't need to be blasted with full midday PAR. Where on the acros is the stn appearing.
Get plenty of water ready for some changes if needed - i'd do one asap. Check all the equipment for signs of weird corrosion etc, cracked heaters blah blah - you know what i mean.
Considering how efficiently your bio filtration was operating i seriously doubt the nutrients from a couple of anthias would cause anything such as stn.

Don't start changing things all over the place as we are prone to do when stuff like this happens. Stick to the basics and double check everything such as salinity etc. If the acros didn't pale before the stn started i would be running half to a full cup of carbon passively.

That's just to get you thinking

Could it be ammonia spike? I know established reefs are rarely tested for this, but a dying fish could be the issue. When I lost my male anthias, it triggered several issues in the tank, ultimately caused other fish and coral deaths. Good luck buddy! Andrew's advice is spot on too.

I can't imagine a pair of anthias could cause that much of an ammonia spike.. I guess maybe.. Not a huge volume of water.. But even if there were, the fish may not be happy but I would assume the corals would actually like it.. Assuming it's not drastic..
I wouldn't be so quick to blame it on the anthias..
Sahin, it seems to me that you have been running the tightrope of low/just enough nutrients..
If everything check out as per Andrew, maybe it's simply low nutrients..

I don't have near the experience as you but I'll blab and see if it helps. My base STN issues always occur when nutrients drop too low, as just happened due to me injuring my back and not feeding for a few days. I lose tops to STN when Alk gets too high.

So, when the Anthias died, did you cut back on feeding or change anything else that might account for it? Perhaps overreacting to the fish death that ended up dropping nutrients too low? It seems to me that while the dead fish might increase measured nutrients in the tank it won't feed the acros.

I had STN episodes twice in the past. On both occasions, I was dosing my tank with white vinegar. STN happened in two completely different set ups. The only explanation I could come up with at the time was that organic carbon dosing lowered nutrients too low a level. Hence, I am in agreement with both Matt and Mark that nutrient levels must have played a part.

Having said that there is no agreed cause for STN in the literature.

I would carry out a series of water fairly large changes, raise the light unit (or reduce its intensity) and run good quality carbon passively (1/2 (UK) cup of carbon). You may even consider running poly filter instead of GAC. I would also keep feeding my fish generously.

Good luck and I hope that you overcome your difficulties without further casualties.

Some friends in Taiwan also report STN recently, I wonder some of them may not aware season change cause new water (usually put outside) too cold but still use exactly same method for water change as summer time.

Also read advice from one very senior reefer in RC, some STN better do nothing and wait it pass. I am sure Sahin you will overcome this and share your experience to the rest of us.

Hope good news soon.

I've done a lot of research and some experimenting with this and I'm pretty convinced that STN occurs when the normaly benign Vibrio sp bacteria on the corals surface begin to attack the "connective tissue" that binds the coral to the skeleton(there is a name for this tissue but I can't remember it right now).

This happens when the population of bacteria spikes up. I have seen it many times when there is excess organic carbon in an otherwise nutrient poor tank. One other element that appears to trigger it at least for me is iron. In fact, I am convinced that many of the STN cases in tanks with aggressive GFO or too many Zeovit stones has nothing to do with "nutrients dropping too fast" but are caused by iron-fueled bacteria.

I've reversed it before with antibiotic dips and sometimes by fragging farther up the branch then gluing the edge. Once the bacteria get under the skin they just keep going so you have to cut the leading edge of the damage away.

Very good information from all these previous post's. Definitely post a picture of where the stn is coming from. Its not bad to do a WC either.. I hope everything is working out !

Learning more lessons here than anywhere else. Hope you're able to ride through this Sahin. You've been inspiring!

This made me think of something that has happened twice to me in the past 6 months.
On two occasions, I have purchased frags from two different vendors. When the frags went into my system, they never had good polyp extension nor did they begin encrusting. They just sat there and did poorly. In fact, the frags began to recede very slowly from the bases. Since they were frags, I removed them and clipped off the recession and reglued them in the same place. Within days, they were better expanded and began encrusting like I would expect..
Clearly, this was not caused in my tank and I don't know what was causing the recession but just by removing the effected parts, the corals made a rapid recovery..
I have dosed iron along with using Color Elements (which also contains some iron) and never experienced corresponding base recession but maybe because of my fuge, the iron never stays around long enough to have an effect...

Maybe, if the corals can't be removed, simply putting a ring of epoxy glue around the recession area, you could stop it dead in its tracks..

 

[scrapz]

Glad to hear it was nothing. Lesson learned, dont ever freak out and really evaluate before freaking out.

 

[Wrangy]

I think this one almost deserves an award Sahin :lolspin:

Really glad to hear that it was all false alarms though mate, nothing worse than the sinking feeling of white skeleton!

 

[mhucasey]

Get ready for a Biggles' classic post!:lmao:

 

[markalot]

Glad to hear it was a false alarm!

 

[glaukos]

really glad it was a false alarm buddy and like matt said,i really can't wait too for biggles's opinion regarding that

 

[reefmutt]

Good to hear sahin!

 

[Yarm79]

Sahin
What T5 combination are you running?
I tried Radion, shadows were too much to put up with
I now have ran 2 Orphek Atlantiks for last few weeks, spread is 100% better, but im still unsure whether to add a few T5's to it, stick my 8x80W ATI back on, or just get a Hybrid like I was going to do from the off set.
Its just a gut feeling I have something aint quite right

 

[sahin]

Sahin
What T5 combination are you running?
I tried Radion, shadows were too much to put up with
I now have ran 2 Orphek Atlantiks for last few weeks, spread is 100% better, but im still unsure whether to add a few T5's to it, stick my 8x80W ATI back on, or just get a Hybrid like I was going to do from the off set.
Its just a gut feeling I have something aint quite right

Hi mate, I've forgotten what my tube combo and I'm at work now. I posted some weeks back - I havent changed it for some time.

If I switch to Radions I wont be putting up one radion above my tank...my tank is 30inch long and many would out only 1 Radion with wide lens. I'd be putting up THREE radions. :lol: I've been looking at LED lit tanks in person and I agree with you that there are big shadowing issues.

SPS colouration wise, I've seen very good results with Radions and Hyra52's. I just dont agree with the coverage specified by the manufacturers. I will have my PacificSun hybrid to switch back if I dont like the change.

 

[markalot]

Hi Sahin,

have you visited this thread yet?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2293079&highlight=par&page=10

On that page he switched from halides to Radions. You need 4 I think, two in front aimed back.

 

[ryanrid]

you know what would be real nice.... some pics, get to it!

 

[ryanrid]

regarding radions, here is a pic of my mates 8x2.2x2.2 using 4 radions

i dont think you need 3, 2 should suffice.