anyone tried to using Jebo WP40?

[jtomasi]

Its not a function of the ability of running it at 12v or 14v or whatever, what people have said is that running it on anything other than 24v (what it was designed for), you reduce the efficiency and potentially the longevity of the pump. Also, someone mentioned that by running it lower than 24v, you increase the amperage through the pump which is what causes the excess heat. I have no idea, I don't have experience with this stuff, but for someone to say that running it at 24v is exactly like 12v or anywhere in between is flat out wrong. Does it reduce the longevity of the pump? There is absolutely nooo way anyone can confidently answer yes or no - the pump is only 3 moths old.

People have to decide what they believe, personally, I cant imagine running extra amperage through a piece of equipment and expecting it to run "normal" as long as something that hasn't been run like that.

 

[dread240]

electrical power is wattage... watts are a function of voltage and current

Say a device requires 30 watts to work... at 24v it would have 1.25amps flowing through it to produce 30 watts... at 12v it would now have 2.5 amps for 30 watts of power... and by the time you reduce down to 6v you're now looking at 5 amps

bear in mind... as I said previously I still don't have one of these, and see lots of confusion... so we'll get into how the electrical load of the pump setup would work...

we're going to stick with 30w, it's a nice number and I like it. (actual wattage will vary with speed I'm sure, but I can't verify anything)

24v max speed is as said previously, 1.25amps to make it work

If you maintain 24v and run a 50% duty cycle, your peak amperage stays the same but average current would drop down to .75 amps

Now if you go with 12v for 50% speed and keep it at max constantly on that your amperage is now the 2.5 amps constantly. You can see the difference in current pretty easily right away... .75amp average vs. 2.5amp draw

Trying to drop to 30% speed with pwm vs. voltage is another big hike... .375 amp average on the 24v pwm circuit vs. 4.16 amps on the 7 volt circuit...

Wire, pcb traces, coils, they are all designed around given numbers... Your traces have to be far enough apart so that you can't short between at a given voltage.. and wire insulation must be sufficient for that (these numbers decrease at lower voltages, meaning less insulation and less space... so should never be a problem)

gauge of wire, and width of a pcb trace, as well as the gauge of wire used on the stator of the motor, all must increase in order to carry more current. Otherwise it gets too hot and burns up, or over time breaks down the insulation of the stator and shorts it.

This is the basics of how it works, and why some people have expressed genuine concern with lowering voltage, and it's a valid point. There is ALWAYS an acceptable range, and I don't know exactly what their control is doing or what... that's up to some of the guys that have one to figure it out. As far as I know at this point, that control could be regulating down to 5v anyways and just passing through the supply voltage, which would mean the control is safe but the pump may not be. There could be circuitry in the pump to protect from too much current as well too.

With the unknowns of the project, I personally would just nix their control and build my own 24v pwm circuit to run the pump. That way in my head there would be no question whatsoever as to what the pump was doing or if I was causing any damage to it :thumbsup:

 

[Haxer]

Dread240,
Thanks for the detailed explanation, Here is what I would like to do. If anybody could tell me what I need and how it would be great. I think simon posted it eariler but I cant find it at the moment. I want to buy a PWM board or analog board (whichever I need) and wire a pot to it so that I can build a small waterproof box to attach to the back of the jebo controller that I can wire into and have a knob to control the intensity (voltage) to the pump.

Is this possible ?

EDIT: if you search for this on that site
( DC 9-48V PWM Stepless DC Motor Speed Controller/Governor Switching 12/24/48V 6A )

would it work with the jebo controller to do what I just said?

 

[jtomasi]

Thank you for the detailed explanation, it was much better than mine . People need to stop saying that it is 100% ok to reduce the voltage and everything works the same. We now have a specific example of why it doesn't. Will it work? clearly it does. Is it safe long term? Doesn't seem like it will be. Might it be? could be. Is it worth the risk?...I will only connect through PWM (RA here)

 

[jtomasi]

Does anyone know what their controller does to change the speed?

 

[d-man]

Got mine on Tuesday. This thing pumps a wave clear across my 11' tank.and it still is 1" at it's crest all the way over. I will replace my tunze 6100's with these for sure.

 

[rjallen]

Question for those who ordered through Fish Street and got the 10% pre-order discount.

Just ordered 2 WP40s. The website shows a 10% discount offered. I selected the US cord plus 1 extra sensor. That selection reduced the price to $77.50. Used the "fishstreet" in the coupon code area and got a additional 3% discount. Checked out with paypal did not get the additional 10% discount. Is the reduction when you chose the US cord the 10%?
Did I miss something?

Thanks

 

[albano]

Is the reduction when you chose the US cord the 10%?

Yes, I believe so

 

[Solov]

electrical power is wattage... watts are a function of voltage and current

Say a device requires 30 watts to work...

The part where you are going wrong is assuming that P is a constant. It is not a constant. You can use Ohm's Law to figure this out. If you take Ohm's Law (E=IR), rearrange it to I=E/R, and put it in P=IE, you get P=E(squared)/R. R is constant (same wires used in roughly same temperature in both cases), so you can see that if you change E that P is going to change also.

And P in our case is proportional to rpm (since all work that motor is doing is pushing water), therefore you give more power - you get more work done i.e. higher rpm.

Current doesn't magically increase to match the label on the device .

Now if you go with 12v for 50% speed and keep it at max constantly on that your amperage is now the 2.5 amps constantly.

So if I am doing my work at half speed I should get double salary?
What I mean here is that you fall into error of doubling the effect for given cause. I.e. you lowered voltage - got effect of half speed, but then all of a sudden you doubled the current?! Where the heck did that current go?

There is some truth to your logic too though - until the motor starts rotating the current is indeed rises to match the power required to overcome friction and establish EMF/back EMF equality. So at lower voltage wires indeed work a bit harder, but it has nothing to do with sustained 30W.

That's how I see it.

 

[tru2nr]

Don't know if anyone is interested or not but a group of us have a group buy going on that would make the pump $58 + shipping from Indiana(roughly$12)....PM me if interested...I have one getting another I love this thing

...Warrior says that this post is Legen....wait for it....dary

 

[dread240]

The part where you are going wrong is assuming that P is a constant. It is not a constant. You can use Ohm's Law to figure this out. If you take Ohm's Law (E=IR), rearrange it to I=E/R, and put it in P=IE, you get P=E(squared)/R. R is constant (same wires used in roughly same temperature in both cases), so you can see that if you change E that P is going to change also.

And P in our case is proportional to rpm (since all work that motor is doing is pushing water), therefore you give more power - you get more work done i.e. higher rpm.

Current doesn't magically increase to match the label on the device .


So if I am doing my work at half speed I should get double salary?
What I mean here is that you fall into error of doubling the effect for given cause. I.e. you lowered voltage - got effect of half speed, but then all of a sudden you doubled the current?! Where the heck did that current go?

There is some truth to your logic too though - until the motor starts rotating the current is indeed rises to match the power required to overcome friction and establish EMF/back EMF equality. So at lower voltage wires indeed work a bit harder, but it has nothing to do with sustained 30W.

That's how I see it.

I actually specifically stated the the actual wattage will lower with speed, which would also reduce current. The reason it's typed out as such is to explain to a vast majority in this thread that do not understand watt's law, ohm's law, pulse width modulation and thermal factors that would come into play on this.

we're going to stick with 30w, it's a nice number and I like it. (actual wattage will vary with speed I'm sure, but I can't verify anything)

It's just to help people understand the cause/effect relationships in playing with power... again like I've said multiple times, without one of these pumps and knowing the exact circuitry of it, I can't confirm one way or the other that lower voltage is fine or harming it... As cheap as it is I can't really justify buying one to tinker with when I already have tunze pumps running, but it would be fun

 

[SeedlessOne]

Don't know if anyone is interested or not but a group of us have a group buy going on that would make the pump $58 + shipping from Indiana(roughly$12)....PM me if interested...I have one getting another I love this thing

...Warrior says that this post is Legen....wait for it....dary

Please stop with the group buy talk. It will do nothing other than get this locked up.

 

[avionixx]

I ordered two for my 55 gallon. I have a feeling that this will be easily too much for this tank, but I'm planning on getting a Reef Angel for my setup. Really banking on the idea of being able to reduce the pump's output using the controller.

On a semi-related note, I ordered right before they sold out of the pumps and noticed that all of a sudden there's a 10% off discount for pre-orders. I emailed them about it and they gave me my 10% back Seems like a legit place to shop at.

 

[Sacohen]

any issues to report?

I got mine today and it didn't work.
No power to the control unit.

I replaced the supplied US power cord (for &$8.50) with one I had from a desktop computer and it works fine now.

I sent an e-mail off to fish-street.com and we'll see what they come back with.

This is not the first issue I have seen of this happening.

Other than that from what I have been reading it seems to be pretty stable.
I just set min up an hour ago.

I'm not real happy with it.
I have it set up on the right side of my 55 and have it on W1 and it is producing good wave action, my corals do not seem to be getting a break.

They are constantly getting hit.

When I had my JBJ wavemaker it alternated from one pump to the other so for 2 min flow was coming from the right to the left and then it switched to the left to the right.

The corals would get a bit of a break and water flow from a different direction.

 

[adam1103]

Ordered one last week, on Tuesday. While it was on pre order, didn't get the 10% discount and still hasn't shipped. Waiting for this pump is so frustrating! How long did it take for others that have pre ordered for theres to actually ship?

 

[rjallen]

Today Fish Street site says pre-orders will ship: "after eastern [sp] holiday, April 1-3"

 

[ArmanS]

mine says pending customs since the 27th

 

[moatdaddy]

Day 2 review. I went back from 2 units down to 1. Just was too much. Everything is loving this unit including me. I personally love the controller it comes with. To be honest though I don't understand why people would tie this into another controller unless you can control it via a computer.

 

[michael.lemke]

I got mine today and it didn't work.
No power to the control unit.

I replaced the supplied US power cord (for &$8.50) with one I had from a desktop computer and it works fine now.

I sent an e-mail off to fish-street.com and we'll see what they come back with.

This is not the first issue I have seen of this happening.

Other than that from what I have been reading it seems to be pretty stable.
I just set min up an hour ago.

I'm not real happy with it.
I have it set up on the right side of my 55 and have it on W1 and it is producing good wave action, my corals do not seem to be getting a break.

They are constantly getting hit.

When I had my JBJ wavemaker it alternated from one pump to the other so for 2 min flow was coming from the right to the left and then it switched to the left to the right.

The corals would get a bit of a break and water flow from a different direction.

It's a powerful pump for a 55. May look into the dc power thingie people are using to dial back the power.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dartier]

Does anyone know what their controller does to change the speed?

The factory controller varies the 5V analog signal it provides on the VA line to adjust the speed. The pump actually stops at 2V and is at max speed at 5V. So it has about 3V of useful adjustment.

Dennis