ASM Skimmer Club!

[jfb3]

Looking for a skimmer for a 300 gallon that won't break the bank. I keep coming back to the ASM's.
What size is best for 300 gallons, heavy load.

 

[Safedad]

Using Sicce

Using Sicce

I replaced the sedra with a PSK 2500 and it works fine on my 90 gal mixed reef. My only problem is that it does not always restart when I turn it off.

 

[cherubfish pair]

I've never had that problem with either of my Sedras.

My Sedras never seem to make any heat either. Strange.

 

[zerillit]

I havent used a Sicce, but I did use the Tunze hydrofoamer.

My G4 had a 9500 and 5000 for a feed and recirculating mod, and worked really well, very stable foam head. When the feed pump died I replaced it with the hydrofoamer, and found that I actually got better results with it by itself, and didnt even need the recirc pump. It took me about a month between break in and getting the water level correct. Now it rocks.

I have an ASM G3 with the Sedra 5000 pump. One pump bought used with the skimmer, had for many years before failing. Replaced with same & it died in a few months, kept stopping, problems priming, etc. Can't seem to get warranty support. Leery of buying the same brand again. What size pump of the Tunze Hydrofoamer would you recommend. 9410.040?

 

[mc-cro]

I would go with the smaller of the 2 tunze. I got the larger one for my G4 and still had to dial the air intake down to about 50%.

I found that the tunze likes the water level to be right at or just above the top of the pump.

 

[larrydavis]

sedra 5000

sedra 5000

whats the differance in needle wheel that reef dynamics sells for the sedra 5000 besides being about twice as expensive

 

[dahenley]

The pin length and thickness of them. Also spacing and number of pins.

The white/clear is an ASM and grey is euro reef/reef dynamics.
ill try and get a picture later...

Also, if you look way back in the thread, you will see where a guy explained how to modify the 5000 output for more flow. Its like porting and polishing engine heads. It allows less restrictions and better flow for the new impeller.

 

[davidwillis]

I just bought a used g-1, but I am trying to figure out what pump it came with. It looks more like the sedra 3500 than the g-500 (looking at marine depot web site). I put a kilowatt meter on it, and it pulls 24w. I can't see a label on it, so I can't tell for sure which pump it is. I tried looking it up by power consumption, but I can't find anywhere that lists the sedra pump power usage. Is there any way to tell which pump it is?

Thanks
David

 

[Anemonebuff]

I have an ASM G3 with the Sedra 5000 pump. One pump bought used with the skimmer, had for many years before failing. Replaced with same & it died in a few months, kept stopping, problems priming, etc. Can't seem to get warranty support. Leery of buying the same brand again. What size pump of the Tunze Hydrofoamer would you recommend. 9410.040?

I have the G3 and just added the smaller Tunze Hydrofoamer. It is rocking like the Sedra 5000 never did.

 

[Anemonebuff]

http://premiumaquatics.com/store/me...Code=PA&Product_Code=T9410_040&Category_Code=

 

[davidwillis]

I noticed a lot of turbulence, so I did this simple mod, and it seems to have helped a lot. I just used parts I had laying around, and it took me about 5 min. It seems to have helped a lot with the turbulence, and it is making foam much faster.

 

[moondoggy4]

Anemonebuff I did the same mod on my ER RS 180 skims twice as fast pulls a full cup in 3 days.

 

[cherubfish pair]

I can understand how the volume of foam can have a positive affect on water qualities and skimming capacity but bubble dwell time has a lot to do skimming performance also. And turbulence contributes to air-to-water contact time. The bubbles act as a magnet to dissolved organic compounds (DOCs) and bind the crud to their surface. Just my two cents.

 

[davidwillis]

here is a quot I found from someone else, but I think it explains it very well.

Skimmers work to remove dissolved organics by allowing them to attach to the bubbles while they are in the skimmer body. In a marine aquarium there are many types of dissolved organic wastes all bearing different properties of attraction to the air within the bubbles. Many dissolved organics have a very strong attraction to air and attach strongly and easily to the bubbles, but many others have a much weaker attraction to air and thus need more time to attach and can be detached easier. For a skimmer to efficiently remove organics with weaker attractions to air, it must be properly tuned to minimize turbulence and maximize reaction time.
Turbulence robs efficiency by breaking the bond between organics and bubbles due to a chaotic reaction chamber. A less turbulent, more efficient design allows more organics to stay attached long enough to be removed from the water column.
Due to this weak attraction, it also takes longer for some organics to attach. This means more reaction time is needed for them to attach and be removed from the water column.

From my understanding, the strong attracted organics will attach with very little dwell time, and turbulence. It is the weaker attracted organics that require more dwell time, and low turbulence. To increase dwell time by increasing turbulence will not help bond the weakly attracted organics, and the strongly attracted organics don't need the dwell time.

So how do we increased both? A taller skimmer/bigger skimmer?

 

[sirreal63]

Here is a good read from long ago, it may help.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5937462#post5937462

This is the best quote to explain what we want in a skimmer that I have ever read, from that thread...

To explain the difference between water dwell time and air dwell time reread my post on the first page; it was long winded but I thought thorough. I'll summarize here.

The protein will remain captured by the bulk fluid until it embeds in the bubble wall. This process can take up to 120 seconds. Allow me the use of an analogy that might make things clearer...

I have terribly slow reactions, so much so that it takes me 120 seconds to catch a basketball thrown at me. Throwing millions of basketballs at me very quickly will not help me catch even one. What you need to do is throw the basketballs extremely slowly, so that they take 120 seconds to pass near to me thus giving my slow reflexes time to kick in and catch it. Now, it is impractical/impossible to throw things this slowly since gravity makes them move faster than that so we'll throw me too. If you throw me at the same speed as the ball, then I get my 120 seconds next to one ball and am able to catch it.

It is the same way with bubbles and proteins in the water. It doesn't do us any good to pelt a protein with a cloud of fine bubbles because it doesn't spend enough time next to ONE of them. Sure, it might get pelted for 120 seconds before it exits the skimmer but that is not how embedding works, it needs 120 seconds next to the SAME bubble to embed. If it is in contact with one bubble for 2 seconds and then it moves away and is in contact with a new bubble the embedding process must by definition start all over. 60 such restarts before exiting the skimmer will produce no result (at least not the one I want).

I think bombardment rate is a load of crap unless I completely misunderstand it (possible).

The only thing that makes any sense whatsoever is one bubble being in contact with one protein for long enough that that hydrophobic portion of the protein moves inside the air/water interface and becomes captured by the air bubble. This increases the surface tension of the air bubble and if this surface tension is increased enough, it will not pop until it is in the skimmer collection cup. Then and only then is a protein removed from the system.

Most skimmers on the market rely on "scrubbing" the water, low turbulence, high volume, think bubble plate and high gph pumps. The bubbles are in contact with the water for an extremely short time, so you may get the bulk of the waste from the water but not all of it. A spinning recirc with the slow water feed from the top will increase contact time but may not do as good of a job of scrubbing the water. Both ways work very well, and neither is superior, they work differently and neither or any method will remove all the waste. In the AA test, they could not get better than 30+% with any technology. In short, it doesn't really matter much, carbon is as effective a skimming, but for different compounds and the use of both helps remove the most we can.

 

[davidwillis]

Very interesting. From reading that, it sounds like the whole counter current theory of longer contact time is false. But how do you get a long contact time running co-current? You would need a 50' tall skimmer to get the 120 seconds as mentioned.

I will read over that link, and maybe it will give more information.

 

[sirreal63]

That 120 seconds is the theoretical length of time for the hardest to attach proteins (lipids). Reality in our skimmers is to not try and capture that elusive protein but remove it via water changes, carbon dosing, carbon reactor, etc etc after it breaks down. There are very few skimmers on the market that do not do a decent job of skimming. I am leaving out the SeaClown, BackPaks and Skilters, those are not skimmers but rather toys. Since there is no clear winner in the skimmer war, other than the skimmer manufacturers, then it makes sense to use any modern skimmer that meets the bio-load of your tank, injects an appropriate mixture of air and water into the skimmer body and be happy.

 

[RotaryGeek]

I have a G3 with a sedra 9000 and a gatevalve on my 120 with a total volume of probably 130 gallons of water. It's medium stocked, but will be lightly stocked soon. Is this overkill? It seems like its skimming very inconsistantly, off and on, most notably it skims best right after I feed, then goes back to nothing. My nitrates seem to stay high, and I feed maybe 2 times a week. I think my problem is the skimmer is too big. Could getting a smaller skimmer help? Oh I did notice that once I added an ATO it started skimming much better, but still not stellar.

 

[sirreal63]

A 9000 is too much air for the G3 body (neck mostly), not only will skimming efficiency be reduced, but it is a power hog. The 5000 is a very good balance for the body and the 9000 is not.

 

[RotaryGeek]

So I should look for a sedra 5000. Know of anywhere to get one for a decent price?