blue tangs in very small tanks... what compells people to do so...
- Thread starter Pallobi
- Start date
milhous3er
New member
I'm in with this guy. I've contemplated numerous times of getting a "small" tang. Chosing not to get it because of my current tank size. When I started SW reef keeping 8 years ago, my LFS had a yellow tang in a 12 JBJ nanocube. Being inexperienced I thought it was a nice looking fish and I had to have one. I never did get that tang, but I did get numerous other fish that were pushing the bounderies of the tank that I had.
Then came the internet (for me)
I have a 40b, but I only stock it with what it can hold now. Sure i'd love to upgrade, but it won't be anytime soon. I'm already pushing the limits with my Antennata lion....
This thread has been a real good read. Contradicting in some points (IMO), but a good read. Thank you for starting this thread !!
i would love to see more chime in with pics or especially video's of there tanks or ones they have links too... maybe even a few with a good view of their size relative to the tanks size, and perhaps show some swim patterns.. and we can more display of our points either way... Brians video was very good
tozzi
New member
Pallobi u have 2 blue jaw's and a tusk in a 75. Are u for or against the tangs in a small tank? Only asking cause after reading this whole thread again, i cant tell. Seems hipocritical to me like someone else said on the early pages.
Alysiak00
New member
i would like to add a well known cause for this problem...LOCAL FISH STORES!
they would sell you an elephant to put in an envelope as long as your paying. thats what i believe to be a major part of this problem. they're arrogance is whats leading to a lot of unhappy fish. They make money off of new hobbyists being uneducated in reefing (the aquarium kind lol).
they would sell you an elephant to put in an envelope as long as your paying. thats what i believe to be a major part of this problem. they're arrogance is whats leading to a lot of unhappy fish. They make money off of new hobbyists being uneducated in reefing (the aquarium kind lol).
scubasteve06
Jeeper Reefer
The miniumum tank size for tangs is different in regards to the tangs end size when it stops growing. Most tank sizes based on fish purchases are in regards to the size it will be when it grows up and that the tank it is in should be sufficiently large for it to do basic manuevers. That being said if anyone who has watched a tang swim, they will know that tangs do not perform basic manuvers. This fish are the micheal phelps of the ocean. They need that space no matter if they are 1" to use to stretch their legs per say. Even if the fish is 2" long and it has a 55g tank that it can adequately turn around in, and even if that fish is eating and 'looks' healthy doesn't mean that it doesn't feel like screaming at the top of its lungs (if it had them) to let him/her out of the cramped confines it is in now.
Now to answer your question instead of giving you an opinion about tank size for a P. Hepatus. The 'expert' advice given in that sticky is the BARE minimum for a Blue Tang and a terrible bare minimum at that. A Blue Tang should not be kept in a 75g, 90g, 110g, and its iffy keeping one in a 120g that is 4'x2'. The main reason being the 4' length. Tangs don't turn to face us and then proceed to swim down the tank that way they swim long ways, and thus the reason being that it is accepted that a 6' tank is what a Blue Tang needs to sufficiently co-exist peacefully with its other tank mates once adult size is reached. Do you think when a baby is born that its parents said oh we'll put him in the broom closest because he is a baby and he doesn't need a 10'x12' room until he's 18, and then proceed to keep that child in the broom closest past his/her teenage years becaue they grew too attached? This is how I am sure a lot of these blue tangs feel.
Now to answer your question instead of giving you an opinion about tank size for a P. Hepatus. The 'expert' advice given in that sticky is the BARE minimum for a Blue Tang and a terrible bare minimum at that. A Blue Tang should not be kept in a 75g, 90g, 110g, and its iffy keeping one in a 120g that is 4'x2'. The main reason being the 4' length. Tangs don't turn to face us and then proceed to swim down the tank that way they swim long ways, and thus the reason being that it is accepted that a 6' tank is what a Blue Tang needs to sufficiently co-exist peacefully with its other tank mates once adult size is reached. Do you think when a baby is born that its parents said oh we'll put him in the broom closest because he is a baby and he doesn't need a 10'x12' room until he's 18, and then proceed to keep that child in the broom closest past his/her teenage years becaue they grew too attached? This is how I am sure a lot of these blue tangs feel.
RokleM
Premium Member
If you don't realize this yet, start planning on finding it a new home now (as a good new home isn't that easy to find). A good healthy blue hepa will be 3-4" in less than 9-12 months under healthy living conditions. Mine grew 20-25% in size during a six week quarantine easy, and that was in less than optimal conditions.
morning guys...
again, my upgrade is already in my possession... and my fish are still juvi's... call this hypocritical if you would like, but we are here taking about blue tangs... a completely different fish with much more swim and room requirements, eating habits and oxygen requirements... i am telling you all i have my upgrade when i am ready for it and will keep my own animals within my care, not simply pawn them off when i feel like i should unlike the ones that say they will "get rid" of their blues when THEY feel fit. when clearly we can see from some examples from the blue owners, that they needed that home some time ago... some of the advocates for the blues in small tanks even admit they will never upgrade... this is wrong... i have no problem with a 1" tang in a 3' tank, but when you post your 4" tang in a 3' tank, there is cause for concern... at least my tank is not 24", 30" or 36" long... and i have proper filtration and flow... i KNOW i need an upgrade, and have taken the necessary steps to do so already...
i would jus like to add, Harlequin rarely get over 7 to 8" in captivity, and blue jaw triggers are some of the smallest species of triggers... they will do great in the 6' home i have waiting for them... a blue tang will grow to 12 to 14", and become very very nasty when feeling confined and stressed... however they will still "swim" and "eat" well, which according to some, is the only signs of a happy fish, which those of use with experience, know isnt true
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this is a great point... however it is also the point of my thread to try and spread the correct info to people who may not know enough... i know i will not change the habits or opinion of those who already know but jus choose to be stubborn and ignore the animals requirements...
that chart, whether you feel it is based on expert opinion or not, the many many experienced hobbyist here know this is not a true or accurate size for this tang... thus we have to make threads like this one, which aside from folks getting defensive and not staying civil like most of us, has been helpful and justified in some ways...
please everyone, refer to Brians tank video... it is 500g's and the tang is cramped in there... that should be enough to at least give some people an idea of what to expect... and again, its a 500g tank, not a 30 or a 50, or even a 120... this is what needs to be seen... these fish get very big, and IF FED properly, will grow very fast... if yours doesnt grow a couple inches a year at least, you underfeeding him, or stressing him to all hell
I Hate to think that you started this thread just to ask why and promised not to criticize, now you turn around and do exactly just that. You did not even know how to answer my questions about fish happiness and growth, waited for other people to answer and now shout the loudest.
Forget about upgrade, what about buying the fish for the tank you have now? Isn't that what other people are saying? You should buy the tusks and the triggers when you build your your 125, not putting them in the 75 and justify it by saying I have a 125 in the wing. I really have respect for you yesterday but that is all gone now. I now admit that having a blue tang no matter how small in a tank not big enough for it is wrong. I strongly felt it was OK until Bill Nye told me growth does not imply happiness. but at least I have the courage to stand up for my belief.
scubasteve06
Jeeper Reefer
You of all people really have no room to talk. I really feel sorry for your tang in your 45g tank, and I feel even more sorry that you think it is perfectly ok to do so. Did you even read my post on page 9 where I told you fact and not an opinion?
growth does not imply happiness... buts it is, just as bill's, my opinion... when your tang, should he be lucky enough to, which he wont, makes it to 12"... no one would be able to look at that fish and say "it is happy, look how its grown"... whats gonna happen is, people are gonna take one look, and their heart is gonna sink... but again, it would be "lucky" (if you wana call it that) to make half that size...
I did not recall you stated your opinion before, only after Bill answered my question.
And what about the "buying fish for the tank you have"?
MedRed
Active member
I still see plenty of tanks that don't heed the Mandarin warning. And there are plenty of tanks I've seen that have browned out SPS in a tank that you can tell doesn't receive enough care. I see lack of quarantine leading to sick fish, and lack of dipping leading to infested corals. I see tanks with fish (usually stressed and dying) that were never cycled.
There are a lot of people in this hobby do what they want and convince themselves that what their doing is ok or the guidelines don't apply to them, or they've not done any/enough research to prevent their issues.
@TwinyPalms and tang tank size: I did some lookup on your statement about tank size and recommendations.
First of all, understand that we (RC Staff) write the stickies. In the case of the statement of tank sizes appropriate for tangs { http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=739380 } we are quoting from a book by Michael, Marine Fishes, which is a standard.
The difference in the Atlantic Blue Tang and the Pacific Blue is not just regional.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=G9jSTKGfC4OusAOAg8yNCw&ved=0CBkQ9QEwAA is the Atlantic Blue, which more closely resembles the Purple Tang, a calm grazer. Largest reported is 15 inches.
The Regal Blue is a very different fish, a runner. Foster&Smith recommends 125 gallons for their safe containment. Largest known is actually smaller, at 12 inches, but their habits are vastly different.
Their scientific names are quite different. The Pacific Blue or Regal Blue is paracanthurus hepatus, and the Atlantic Blue is paracanthurus coelureus. The Regal Blue is tolerably hardy, in a large enough tank. Unfortunately the Atlantic Blue (looking nothing like the Regal) is rated as fragile, difficult to keep, requiring immaculate water quality, which is one reason you don't see them often in the trade. (The slightly more hardy Purple Tang BTW is a very remote relative, not even a paracanthurus, but a zebrasoma, like the familiar Yellow Tang, though it looks almost identical to the Atlantic Blue.)
Pay closest attention to the scientific names, if you have any doubt of the identity of the fish you're ordering.
Foster&Smith is a valuable second check on tank size requirements. Its information is more recent, and we do learn things as time goes on. We may need to move away from the Marine Fishes table as a standard for tangs.
First of all, understand that we (RC Staff) write the stickies. In the case of the statement of tank sizes appropriate for tangs { http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=739380 } we are quoting from a book by Michael, Marine Fishes, which is a standard.
The difference in the Atlantic Blue Tang and the Pacific Blue is not just regional.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=G9jSTKGfC4OusAOAg8yNCw&ved=0CBkQ9QEwAA is the Atlantic Blue, which more closely resembles the Purple Tang, a calm grazer. Largest reported is 15 inches.
The Regal Blue is a very different fish, a runner. Foster&Smith recommends 125 gallons for their safe containment. Largest known is actually smaller, at 12 inches, but their habits are vastly different.
Their scientific names are quite different. The Pacific Blue or Regal Blue is paracanthurus hepatus, and the Atlantic Blue is paracanthurus coelureus. The Regal Blue is tolerably hardy, in a large enough tank. Unfortunately the Atlantic Blue (looking nothing like the Regal) is rated as fragile, difficult to keep, requiring immaculate water quality, which is one reason you don't see them often in the trade. (The slightly more hardy Purple Tang BTW is a very remote relative, not even a paracanthurus, but a zebrasoma, like the familiar Yellow Tang, though it looks almost identical to the Atlantic Blue.)
Pay closest attention to the scientific names, if you have any doubt of the identity of the fish you're ordering.
Foster&Smith is a valuable second check on tank size requirements. Its information is more recent, and we do learn things as time goes on. We may need to move away from the Marine Fishes table as a standard for tangs.
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Toddrtrex
Premium Member
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You are walking a very thin line -- either change your attitude and stop with the personal attacks or leave this thread.
You are walking a very thin line -- either change your attitude and stop with the personal attacks or leave this thread.
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