blue tangs in very small tanks... what compells people to do so...
- Thread starter Pallobi
- Start date
Can you provide a link to some authoritative guidance that supports those assertions? I would be interested to read them. Personally, I would believe that any "stunting" of growth is more easily attributable to improprer nutrition and housing rather than some on/off growth switch triggered by tank size.
The argument about tank size relative to the ocean is an old one and fails to take into consideration that we obviously cannot provide the perfect environment, but we can strive for the optimum environment.
Let's assume you keep a tang in a punch bowl. The size of a punch bowl in proportion to the Pacific Ocean does not differ signifcantly from the size of an Olympic-sized swimming pool in proportion to the Pacific Ocean. However, I think we all would agree it would be a silly argument to suggest the tang is no worse off in the punch bowl than in the swimming pool. Increase the punch bowl to a 45 gallon tank and shrink the swimming pool down to an 8' tank, and, while the disparity isn't as great, there is still, in my opinion as someone who has kept these fish, a significant benefit to the larger area.
Let's assume you keep a tang in a punch bowl. The size of a punch bowl in proportion to the Pacific Ocean does not differ signifcantly from the size of an Olympic-sized swimming pool in proportion to the Pacific Ocean. However, I think we all would agree it would be a silly argument to suggest the tang is no worse off in the punch bowl than in the swimming pool. Increase the punch bowl to a 45 gallon tank and shrink the swimming pool down to an 8' tank, and, while the disparity isn't as great, there is still, in my opinion as someone who has kept these fish, a significant benefit to the larger area.
samdaman
New member
I read it. I am not sure of the benefit, however. Those are the opinions of one person.
samdaman
New member
Well my opinion is, people put these big fishes in small tanks because from their perspective or point of view, the fish looks fine in there, he has "space to swim" he does not look crowded.These fishes being "open swimmers" they need a lot more space than people really think. They aren't like other people mentioned like smaller fish like gobys, that mostly stay in the same area during their lifetime. These fish are active swimmers and spend a lot of their time swimming in the open ocean. That's what I think. and thats what most people I believe where saying, I didn't read the whole thread.
But this isnt the only problem. If you look for tank size for blue hippo tang, click on a couple search results. For example Fishlore.com according to them "Tank Size : 75 gallon (284 liters) minimum", aquaticcomunity.com "It is not advisable to use an aquarium smaller than 75 gallons / 285 litres" Its these sites that are misinforming people and that's why there are so many of these fishes in small tanks.
As for other people, that have some in say 30, 40, 50 gal. I don't know what they are thinking. Maybe "since I can get it at 2 inches, almost the same size as my clownfish (or any other fish that is small) , It can be in my tank too" But there is nothing we can do about that, people decide what they are gonna do, get what fish they are going to get and listen to the advice/information given. All we can do is not practice that bad husbandry in our tank. All this is my opinion everyone. I don't speak for everyone else.
Thank you for elaborating. My problem with that particular article is the tone it takes against those the author calls "tang police". I would submit to you that the pendulum has swung dramatically the other way. It is much more common for a person who advocates a conservative stocking level to be "jumped on" and called "tang police" by numerous posters, then it is for a person with an aggressive stocking position to be similarly "jumped". I have been following these boards for many years, and I see more aquarists keeping tangs in tanks smaller than 55 gallons than I ever have before. If that decision is questioned, the perjorative insult "tang police" is quickly leveled at those who do so. I think engaging in attacking the person instead of debating the issues is unhelpful at best, childish at worst.
Daniel Reef
New member
The article seems to suggest that fish that swim a lot like tangs only do so for feeding purposes but that they really don't need to swim if confined to a small area where all the food is located. However, the author never cited any empirical data supporting this and it appears to be pure speculation. So I am not sure how much credence should be given to this article. I would have liked to seen the article have more support for the position other than apparently attacking the Tang police. Note: I don't own any fish yet (haven't in about 13 years) so I have no personal beef one way or the other (i.e., proving that I am putting tangs in the appropriate sized tank).
Angel*Fish
cats and large squashes
Like the fish understands that?
One person's insult is another's compliment - it's a matter of perspective. It doesn't bother me a bit if someone calls me the tang police.
I don't care in the least what people discuss, but I thought it had been settled a long time ago that tangs need big, long tanks to remain unstressed. So what is there to discuss, whether we care if tangs are stressed or not?
It isn't a matter of it "bothering me", or anyone else. It is the practice of only offering that comment in a thread rather than offering some bit of helpful advice.
Poster: Can I keep a Naso sp. tang in a 55 gallon tank?
First responder: Naso sp. are some of the largest tangs, and a 55 gallon tank doesn't provide the swimming room and space recommended for this fish.
Second responder: Why do the tang police have to ruin every thread?
^^That particular exchange happens very, very frequently. Now, if the second person responds the same rationale as that reflected in the cited article (i.e. they only swim because they are in search of food), at least there is an opinion that can be debated and discussed. Relying only one calling someone "tang police" to debate an issue helps no one.
Poster: Can I keep a Naso sp. tang in a 55 gallon tank?
First responder: Naso sp. are some of the largest tangs, and a 55 gallon tank doesn't provide the swimming room and space recommended for this fish.
Second responder: Why do the tang police have to ruin every thread?
^^That particular exchange happens very, very frequently. Now, if the second person responds the same rationale as that reflected in the cited article (i.e. they only swim because they are in search of food), at least there is an opinion that can be debated and discussed. Relying only one calling someone "tang police" to debate an issue helps no one.
samdaman
New member
I agree with you, the reason I posted that article is because when i was inquiring about putting a fish in a tank this is what I was given, no explanation.
Now a days like you said anyone that says the truth about a tank not suited for ______ is a tang police, I have seen tangs in 20 gal. Why people do it is because they don't see the fish as an animal. If it dies, well there's plenty at the store to replace it. And thats how some people are in the fish keeping hobby. Like other people have said the relatively cheapness of the hippo tang is a big factor too.
But these threads can go on and on.. Id be amazed if even 2 persons reconsidered moving their tang into a bigger tank. most of this info is just disregarded.
Angel*Fish
cats and large squashes
Sure I've seen that, but that's using it in a very derogatory way and advertising the ignorance of the user. Ive been away from this part of the forum for some time and it's mind blowing to me to come back and find that we're still arguing about tangs and tank size.
jenglish
Marquis de Carabas
There is 0 evidence that keeping a tang or any other fish will keep it from outgrowing it's environment. In fact by definition stunting growth through stress (as measurable in areal way through cortisol levels) means the tang is too big for it's environment. As far as a fish being self aware... that depends what you mean. A fish is aware that it is separate from it's environment and are capable of solving some puzzles therefore posses learning and one could argue thought. I would agree that they are not capable of "happy" or "sad" and to state so is anthropomorphizing. But just because a creature is not capable of the same emotions as we are does not mean it is OK to not meet it's basic health needs IMO.
returnofsid
New member
A couple things to consider...IMO.
A lot of people are putting a lot of stress on juvenile/adult sized tangs, relating to tank size. I don't see many people talking about the issue of swimming space, though it has been mentioned. Tangs, regardless of age or size, need LOTS of swimming room. IMO, anything less than a 4' tank doesn't provide, even the smallest of tangs, with enough swimming room. I say 4', carefully. I've kept more than one tang, in my 4' tank. However, my tank is a 200 Deep Dimension, and 3', front to back. Even then, I've often wondered if my tank is large enough. In the past, I've also kept a Yellow Tang, in a 75. I believe my tank was too small for this fish.
On to my second point....
Someone mentioned the size of a tank, dictating the growth of a fish. This is a complete myth!!
There's something called a "growth inhibiting hormone," which does "sense" a fish's environment, and kicks in, to inhibit growth, if it senses that the fish is in too small of an environment.
HOWEVER, this hormone is only present in a very small number of Freshwater fish. Mainly fish species that live in seasonally variable areas, where water sources dry up or become much smaller, during the dry seasons.
Once again, this hormone is NOT present in Marine species, and is only present in a very small number of Freshwater species.
A lot of people are putting a lot of stress on juvenile/adult sized tangs, relating to tank size. I don't see many people talking about the issue of swimming space, though it has been mentioned. Tangs, regardless of age or size, need LOTS of swimming room. IMO, anything less than a 4' tank doesn't provide, even the smallest of tangs, with enough swimming room. I say 4', carefully. I've kept more than one tang, in my 4' tank. However, my tank is a 200 Deep Dimension, and 3', front to back. Even then, I've often wondered if my tank is large enough. In the past, I've also kept a Yellow Tang, in a 75. I believe my tank was too small for this fish.
On to my second point....
Someone mentioned the size of a tank, dictating the growth of a fish. This is a complete myth!!
There's something called a "growth inhibiting hormone," which does "sense" a fish's environment, and kicks in, to inhibit growth, if it senses that the fish is in too small of an environment.
HOWEVER, this hormone is only present in a very small number of Freshwater fish. Mainly fish species that live in seasonally variable areas, where water sources dry up or become much smaller, during the dry seasons.
Once again, this hormone is NOT present in Marine species, and is only present in a very small number of Freshwater species.
GregsReef28
New member
I have never understood the whole "Gotta be in a 6' tank" thing. So a blue tang would be good in a 6foot by 6inch by 6inch tank? But not in a 4foot by 4foot cube? Or what about a cylinder? I've seen some very happy tangs in large cylindrical tanks.
