blue tangs in very small tanks... what compells people to do so...
- Thread starter Pallobi
- Start date
Toddrtrex
Premium Member
Sure thing.
We don't all have to agree on this (( even though I wish we would )), but we at least have to disagree respectfully.
RokleM
Premium Member
^^^ This.
Apparently quite a few people find my posts inappropriate, so I guess I will leave this thread. I meant no disrespect to anyone. I thought I was just pointing out the inconsistency in his words and his practice. Anyway this is my last post in this thread and I guess any other thread with the same level of controversy.
i never once mentioned buying fish for the tank you have... not one time... i clearly violate that theory... do however, plan on upgrading however you do not want to, and is your right... do as you would like...
i am sharing my opinion in hopes to help others decide with a little more input, but i have said this many of times... and yes, i would like both sides of the party to chime in... but keep it laid back as much as possible, and lets relax... and yes, maybe this thread has gone a bit off topic, it jus reeled up almost 300 post in the first day... i am trying to keep it in more positive of light, since we have alot of views and posters here... the longer the thread stays chill, we can talk at our leisure, and remain anonymous if we would like...
Will everybody please take a look at the list in my post above? That's the current tank size recommendation from Reef Fishes. There are some differences between Michael and Foster & Smith, and the largest of those regards the Regal or Pacific Blue Tang. This thread, while argument has gotten out of hand, has pointed up some discrepancies that need looking at. Quiet member opinion on the list as it stands and the standard you think is a good idea would be interesting. I do assure you if the standard changes, we will not be 'after' anybody on that basis---but if the standard NEEDS to change, we should be consistent in every forum about what we recommend, for the benefit of people buying their tanks.
you are right, so the more we talk, the more info gets out there... the more people know, the more people appreciate...
Pallobi,
I've read the entire thread and have a few serious comments.
First, I agree that blue tangs should not be kept in small enclosures. We agree. I also agree that a serious discussion on this topic is valid, necessary, and should expand to include all possible specimens collected. Most would agree that the market probably will not regulate itself in regard to what is harvested from the sea and made available to aquarists worldwide. If we want it, and will pay the money to get it, someone will find the way to provide.
This leaves two possible long-term outcomes, as I see it. Governments will eventually step in under pressure from environmental concerns and begin to eliminate/severely regulate further collection of speciments from the wild, or we as a community can create a culture among hobbiests that frowns upon practices that lead to the routine and unecessary demise of the animals we keep - it just shouldn't be acceptable to kill through ignorance.
The question, as I see it, is who can lead such an effort in credible fashion, and how should the effort be disseminated? A forum like Reef Central is a good place to start. There are thousands of avid participnats here who could begin to establish the culture you appear to seek. As to who should lead, that is far harder to determine, IMO.
The goal of this thread is commendable, but its implementation is severely flawed. Credible leadership on such discussion is the key.
I've read the entire thread and have a few serious comments.
First, I agree that blue tangs should not be kept in small enclosures. We agree. I also agree that a serious discussion on this topic is valid, necessary, and should expand to include all possible specimens collected. Most would agree that the market probably will not regulate itself in regard to what is harvested from the sea and made available to aquarists worldwide. If we want it, and will pay the money to get it, someone will find the way to provide.
This leaves two possible long-term outcomes, as I see it. Governments will eventually step in under pressure from environmental concerns and begin to eliminate/severely regulate further collection of speciments from the wild, or we as a community can create a culture among hobbiests that frowns upon practices that lead to the routine and unecessary demise of the animals we keep - it just shouldn't be acceptable to kill through ignorance.
The question, as I see it, is who can lead such an effort in credible fashion, and how should the effort be disseminated? A forum like Reef Central is a good place to start. There are thousands of avid participnats here who could begin to establish the culture you appear to seek. As to who should lead, that is far harder to determine, IMO.
The goal of this thread is commendable, but its implementation is severely flawed. Credible leadership on such discussion is the key.
Daniel Reef
New member
Does that mean that now that he is rescued you will be transferring him to a larger tank, i.e., upgrading yourself or giving him to a fellow reefer with an appropriate tank size? If not, why? I guess the OP may want to know that since that goes to his discussion.
romanr
New member
Does anyone know of a source that gives stats on a particular fish's "home range". For example: clowns don't usually swim more than a couple of feet beyond their anemone, or chromis don't usually stray further than 3 feet from the home coral, etc. Of course I made those #'s up just giving you of an example of what I'm looking for.
I think that would be most benefitial in feeling assured we are not restricting their natural movement in too drastic a fashion.
I think that would be most benefitial in feeling assured we are not restricting their natural movement in too drastic a fashion.
i dont have those numbers... though i have aobseved, in captivity many places tang's habits along with owning my own in anything from a 120 to 150 for blue tangs... i have had 2...
i also however, have been in the ocean many of times in a few places... i have never seen a blue in the wild myself... i have been to Oahu, Maui, mexico, and a couple parts of the Caribbean... i have watched for hours the habits of tangs in the wild, you could be amazed to see, if you havent, the swimming of a patch of yellow tangs... much fatter and bigger and healthier than our aquariums... its incredible, i have followed some myself at Black Rock in Maui for over 100 yards (or what seemed like) out over the reef... so they need some room as they took some up... however they swim aloong the rocks alot more than blues who from what i understand will swim more out and in more open areas of the reef... i have seen 2' unicorn tangs (not sure exact name) swimming in packs of about 6 to 8 jus out in the 8 to 12' water over the sand a bit away from the reef...
myself, i have owned tangs... like the 2 blues i had, one in a 75, and joined by another in a 150... both found bigger homes... most likely will not own one again regardless of size...
that is my personal experinces with tangs, along with a chocolate i owned and a small vlamingi for a short period, and he did not stay small for long lol... lesson learned however
i can tell you where to start looking on 'home range'---if they have their cam fixed: it's a site called http://www.breathebonaire.com ---it has a reef cam that lets you sit and watch the behaviors for hours. Hurricanes play hob with their cam, so it can go down (its real interesting to watch when a hurricane is going over (and people worry about a 3-day-dark to cure cyano!)---and interesting to see who lives where. I used to watch it a lot, and there were certain residents that hung close, others that ranged, and then a trumpetfish that you could spot going home at twilight. You began to worry about them---I didn't see the squirrelfish for 3 days and was sure he'd been eaten---but back home he came after a local storm, and reclaimed his rock!
This thread has gotten me interested in trying to provide info to members on various tank sizes and what fishes they can reasonably have in there (granted a sane fish load). Ie, a nano (10), a 29, a 54, a 75, a 100, 125, 150, and 200...beyond that, I think you're on your own!
I think the best place to post it would likely be the newbie forum, to have it available when people are first setting up.
I think the best place to post it would likely be the newbie forum, to have it available when people are first setting up.
username in use
Sciencing Daily
12 pages of tiny tanks
an 8 inch hippo requires quite a large tank, and typically its the current holder who should find the new home... the LFS instead of looking out for the tang and jus making sure it gets somewhere, and after they got it for free perhaps. most likely has a nice price tag on it... when for that one fish, they could most likely find it a home if they wanted...
reefgeezer
Active member
Interesting thread. Here's $0.02...
When we assign human characteristics to animals, we overstate the problem. Fish simply respond to their environment. They are neither happy or sad. They are not self aware. They do not think.
They can be stressed in response to an improper environment, but here's the rub... that tends to effect their growth rate. This is generally what keeps some species, including in most cases Tangs, from growing too big for their habitat.
I suppose we could set some subjective size to volume ratio and say shame on those who violate it. In reality a Tang is not likely to outgrow its tank to the point its health is adversely affected as long as the tank wasn't too small to begin with. As to the swimming room needed, I would think that a fish that cruises an area measured in square miles in the wild would scarcely notice the difference between 120 square feet (75 gallon) and 288 square feet (180 gallon) even if it were self aware.
When we assign human characteristics to animals, we overstate the problem. Fish simply respond to their environment. They are neither happy or sad. They are not self aware. They do not think.
They can be stressed in response to an improper environment, but here's the rub... that tends to effect their growth rate. This is generally what keeps some species, including in most cases Tangs, from growing too big for their habitat.
I suppose we could set some subjective size to volume ratio and say shame on those who violate it. In reality a Tang is not likely to outgrow its tank to the point its health is adversely affected as long as the tank wasn't too small to begin with. As to the swimming room needed, I would think that a fish that cruises an area measured in square miles in the wild would scarcely notice the difference between 120 square feet (75 gallon) and 288 square feet (180 gallon) even if it were self aware.
