current state of the marine aquarium hobby

[NirvanaFan]

NYS is such an AMAZINGLY beautiful and diverse state. If it wasn't for NYC and the taxes, this place would be heaven. Lakes, mountains, ocean, forests, farms, sports, education, the list goes on. (Oh, and Wegmans)

I don't mean to turn this thread political, but you hit the nail on the head. It's no wonder people are heading for tax-friendly states. If I wasn't tied down with family, I would already be living in Alaska, Idaho, or Wyoming. I'm assuming that people noticed the avatar changed a little after the new year started.



Whoever said that it comes down to time is absolutely right. My son turned 2 a few months ago. With him, the wife, 2 dogs, and a dozen tanks, I have no time. I haven't bred a clownfish in over a year. I've SERIOUSLY thought about selling all of my pairs and the 75 gallon reef and starting fresh when we move into a new house sometime in the next 4 or 5 years. My male Clarkii died yesterday morning, and I have no idea why. I've really thought about just giving up. Maybe I'd keep a fish only 29 gallon tank for the Picasso clown pair, but that's it. I either spend half an hour with my son, or with the tanks. Guess who's going to win, every time?


I know with the economy the way it is, there are lots of people that are struggling. Raises are few and far between, but the cost of living keeps going up. Health care, housing, food, everything is getting more expensive. Our hobby has gotten "easier" because of the abundance of information, but it hasn't really gotten any cheaper.

Monroe County's population hasn't really grown much in the past 40 years. Our big employers (Kodak and Xerox) are still important, but they don't employ someone from every family like they did 30 years ago. Job growth has become stagnant in our area. We didn't get hit hard by the recession because we don't have boom and bust cycles like other areas (particularly the southwest). We're just getting by the same as we have for the past 40 years.

 

[tnyr5]

I think you just need to look at attendance at frag swaps to know something's up. Just looking quickly at Fragswapper's records: Delaware reef club had 138 people registered for it's 2012 event, for 2013: 39 people. Attendance was down by about 20-30% at my own club's (NCPARS) last swap compared to the same swap last year (it had grown or remained stable every year prior). It's probably mostly the hurricane's fault in this area. Is anyone seeing similar patterns up their way?

 

[Zombiecowmeat]

I don't mean to turn this thread political, but you hit the nail on the head. It's no wonder people are heading for tax-friendly states. If I wasn't tied down with family, I would already be living in Alaska, Idaho, or Wyoming. I'm assuming that people noticed the avatar changed a little after the new year started.


They had some numbers out a couple of months ago and I think was around 6000 people a month leaving NY to go elsewhere. Around here we had a big crash with Corning Inc, Dresser Rand, and Swiezter Aircraft, and Belden either being hit, being bought our and shipped to china or closing all-together. The place I am at laid off 50% and then cut benefits 50% as well. Corning is doing better and Dresser should be getting there soon, but the area seems over saturated with workers and not enough jobs to fill them. Luckily my wife just became a nurse though which is a booming job around here.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Is anyone seeing similar patterns up their way?

Not in CNY, things have been growing at an amazing rate. 8 or 10 years ago it was cool if you had a dozen people show up at a frag trade, now the local frag trades are like sold out rock concerts.

I'm out of the marine hobby, probably for good, or at least a long time. It wasn't really money or time, though those played in to it. It was more just the stress factor. I can't enjoy something that causes me to stay up at night worrying. Even after two decades of keeping marine tanks, I found myself spending way more time stressing about the tank than enjoying it.

Regarding comments people made earlier about things being easier for new hobbyists now because of information availability - that is definitely true, though IMHO it's a double edged sword. Yes there is more information out there, but there's also essentially a higher standard implied by the easy information sharing. When I got in to the hobby, I was totally happy keeping a tank with super basic livestock and archaic methods, because that was all I knew about at the time.

 

[Gravesj1s]

For me ,its a combination of things.Spare time is a major issue with 3 daughters heavily into sports.One down with a severe knee injury,surgery went well but looking at months of physical T.once or twice a week. Other daughter in competition ,we've had to travel to NJ,NYC,Ma.Ri,conn.NH. and more local ,Roch & Buffalo.Just in the past few months.

Wife got notice her company is selling out and needs to find another job.Iv'e had to adapt considerably myself but surely, things could be worse.Iwill say the economy doesn't look like its doing well to me.
Honestly ,I don't see the economy doing any better come Oct.-Nov. (Ob-care kicks in)
But, will have to wait and see how small buis. fare then.

So, my tank, its still going but I took a major hit from stupiity.Went ahaead and converted my sump into a frag tank.Bad & costly move.Lost every chalice ,acan and a number of other cherished corals I had growing in there.Seemed like a good idea, but the way it was setup,I didnt realize water could flucuate between the high & low level float switches. Corals were only under 3 inches of water,so when my vat went dry I didnt catch it until the low level switch was triggered.By then the corals were totally exposed to air baking under the lights. Embrassed to say it here but losses were an easy 5K in about 3 days.Happened around last april and I just haven't had the same lust for the hobby since.Live & Learn.

~ Nirvana, I hear you & and Id pack it up to if I could and move.I love it here but have had about enough of the rights and funds being stripped in NY.(Ill refrain from posting political views though)

Take care everyone.
-Steve

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[block head]

Iove the hobby, i consider it a luxury item. Time and money are tight. The tank has taken a few hits lately . With divorce being considered, i am much less enthusiastic about the hobby. Right now I'm in a survival \ holding pattern. Most of the working class people i know are struggling.

 

[Ellery]

To chime in, I agree with many of the previous mentioned reasons. I for one have slowed the urge of starting a third system by attempting to optimize my current one first. These days if you are fortunate to be employed you have way more responsibilities and travel then it was 10 years ago. That and family (even w/ 1 4 year old) is plenty and then house work is neverending too. Those are the time factors. As far as money goes I am one who is willing to invest in new gadgets that will automate my system, not for the sake of laziness since this is the only stress relieving hobby I have, but to give me some better state of mind when I travel away for work on long trips. Nobody else in my house knows how to take care of it even when I have instructions all over the place like a manufacturing facility.

As with most hobbies this will always fall lower on the priority list of your bare necessities of family, home, & work.

 

[Railcar79]

I will drop in my 2cents here. I took a hiatus of about 20 years. I came back to the Hobby. I love the fish, but personally I don't care for corals. That is where I hit the wall that had me ready to walk away.

There are very few fish only forums. To get good info I came to reef sites. The reefers took every jab and stab at me not wanting corals, called me lazy and one guy here on reef central told me to go back to betta bowls, and leave the hobby for those who appreciate it. Most reef forums are downright hostile to noobs who want to get their feet wet with fish to decide if corals are worth it. I call them the Tank Nazis. Like grammar Nazis on Facebook if it isn't their way you are cruel to your fish it will never work, and you will kill off your investment.

Second, confusion. I wanted a 55 gal. Everyone pushed me for a 120. I got a skimmer, it wasn't good enough. People told me to get a gfo reactor, carbon reactor and a calcium reactor, dosing pumps, halide lights, no one answered a question directly, which was confusing as heck, and had me looking at my last topic money.

The economy is in the tank, just not my tank. I can not afford $2000 in extra equipment, I don't want to spend $100 a month to light my tank, and let's face it coral ain't cheap. The average startup for FOWLR is around $1000. That is a house payment and 2 weeks of groceries for my family of 6. Ads in the extras for corals and you are looking closer to 2. People in the hobby buy exotics and regular fish online, so the pet stores don't stock the fish any more. And those that do are big box stores who hire clueless clerks who don't care about fish. Hard to get excited about anything if the guy at the store doesn't know or care the difference between a guppy and a firefish.

All our technology is great, gives the die hards new toys, and makes the hobby more successful, but all that tech comes with a pricetag, that even I find scary.

 

[cardiffgiant]

hey, it's not all doom and gloom, I'm still going strong!

However, I have had a number of distractions that have kept me from being as active as I used to be:
-I'm selling an income property and buying 2 more with the proceeds. This is taking an incredible amount of my spare time.
-I got a convertible last summer and now have a summer and winter hobby
-My display is pretty much full, so I really don't have room for trades
-I did a number of upgrades to my system at the beginning of the year and really don't have much more that I'd like to do to it at the moment

 

[mr.maroonsalty]

You want to see a fire sale? There is big city south of us with a board. I see a couple problems. First is overindulgence instant gratification, the first few credit card bills are easy to justify, but they keep coming. After the bills comes the work; I don't believe having a garden is as easy as having an automatic watering system, and I don't think atomation fixes many reef keeping problems either. Sure, it can help! But does it place things properly for long term growth? Does it rake up the litter? Prune...? That monthly payment for what could be a brand new Infinity doesn't look $ooo fun when it requires constant laboring?

Then there are just family priorities.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

I'm interested in knowing how today's Buffalo frag swap goes.

These events truly used to be frag swaps. Nowadays it's different. Not implying "good" or "bad" here... just different

 

[Zombiecowmeat]

I was hoping to make it to that one but just my luck I came down with Bells Palsy haha go me!

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Not implying "good" or "bad" here... just different

I think I caught your meaning. I used to not bring money to frag swaps. Just frags. And good stories.

 

[tmz]

The Buffalo frag swap was busy,Gary. A steady crowd ; great chance for social interaction and information exchange. Thankyou Randy O for hosting.
I was there to buy a few frags; not selling though; too much work.I have folks who stop by for frags now and then but selling isn't my focus. I did get a few sps frags I like and a couple of pays that I didn't have. Seems to me some frag swaps may be slower these days because there are so many more on line sellers and other ways to acquire frags than there used to be .

 

[emm0909]

Seems to me some frag swaps may be slower these days because there are so many more on line sellers and other ways to acquire frags than there used to be .

I have to second that. Earlier this year I was so excited for the recent few frag swaps. I ended up not going. The two reasons I didn't go were 1. I spent all my extra reef money on something else. Oops. 2. In the past three months I have traded so much coral with upstate reefers that I once again have no clue what to do with the next frag. I'm working on another trade in the next week that'll give me a few more. It's so easy to meet and trade with local reefers.

 

[Jstn]

I'm out of the marine hobby, probably for good, or at least a long time. It wasn't really money or time, though those played in to it. It was more just the stress factor. I can't enjoy something that causes me to stay up at night worrying. Even after two decades of keeping marine tanks, I found myself spending way more time stressing about the tank than enjoying it.

.

This is the biggest problem for me, after a move from Buffalo to Mn, I lost a few coral and slowly from eunice infestation to brown jelly I went from 20 nice acans that I acquired during my stay in WNY to 3 that will most likely die in the next few weeks.

Outside the obvious money, I am afraid to go on vacation and return to more death. I am bouncing around right now, most likely will move again in the next 2 years, so the reef hobby isnt the greatest for me. I havea deep love for it and am going to have a hard time missing it, but after a crash I am so depressed seeing my tank. And thinking of the money I need to spend to get it looking proper, only to lose it to another crash.