DIY LEDs with Radion Pro G2 pucks?

Could someone provide us with the LED's specs in G1 pucks? I have 6 G1 pucks and thinking of building a complementary light unit for my 250G.
One alternative would be to build 3 separate units with two pucks each.

Any advise on drivers would also do me happy. I'm not keen on diming the different channels, 12K is ok with me. I'm looking to keep this as simple as possible.
I have som MW HLG 150-30A(?) laying around, could they be used? They are adjustable, 30V 5A units.

Br. Johan

with some current mirrors and fuses, and some creative wiring, ie, blues on on and white/red/green on another, or however you make it work out, you could get things going pretty simply......
 
Yes- Unfortunately Obama (& the millions on Welfare that depend on him) & and that whack job- Gerry "Geritol" Brown both get their cut. LOL

I'm also tapped out on LDD-H PcB's right now. :headwally:

Fortuanatly they are still often cheaper on many drivers/psu, even after tax/shipping......
 
mentioning the many parrelel LED build threads now seems pertenant. just seach and read thru them. the same principles will apply to running radion pucks with fewer drivers and combined channels, etc, etc, I don't feel like hunting tonight, but search my post history and you'll find all the info you could ever need in the threads I frequent over the last couple years!

:beer:
 
I need to catch up for the last couple days worth of posts, but........

there is no reason not to run the radion pucks at less than max current. Hell it would be prefferable IMHO as I've heard reports from many that over time they loose a lot of output when running at full power. (cree rates life span at 700mA and very low junction temp on the LED chips used in the pucks, so running at 1500mA is sure to drastically reduce life with them that close together)........just my two cents as there are no "comercial" lighting manuracturers running these chips past 700mA and most are only pushing 350 with exception of street lighting which has massive heatsinks by comparison.

some chips can run at maximum rating but look at how they are rated if it's using a juction temp of 25C in the rating then now way in hell you will see that in a DIY or with the radion pucks. Most ratings at 1500mA are "calculated" not actual......

Not to throw a wrench into anyones plans but just run things at 500, 700, or 1000mA using the LDD H and don't worry about it :)

Thanks for the input zachts. So, concerning life span, won't total wattage affect temperature vs just drive current? I'm assuming that even if one used a max current driver, if running dimmed to only 50% of max intensity for example, they would run at lower temps and lengthen lifespan?
 
Thanks for the input zachts. So, concerning life span, won't total wattage affect temperature vs just drive current? I'm assuming that even if one used a max current driver, if running dimmed to only 50% of max intensity for example, they would run at lower temps and lengthen lifespan?

yes, that is true, however they will last even longer at half driver current and full power, how much longer I have no Idea, but significant I would imaging as LED data sheets I've read only rate "pulsed" current at slightly higher than the max current, and none of them (at least those used on the radion boards) are rated for life span at max drive current. rated life span says that after, for example if they use the LM70 rating they will lose 30% output after the rated number of hours at a certain junction temp and drive current.

Even at 50% duty cycle they still are getting 1500mA for half the time with a pwm driver. so the heat is not as much to the heatsink but internally they are still getting more heat than if they were running at half the drive current but at 100% duty cycle. Regardless of duty cycle higher drive current makes LEDs less efficient and produce more heat than getting the same amount of light using a lower drive current.

Basically they assume most users will not run full power and those that do will probably upgrade in a year or two and never notice the LEDs losing power, or will just up the power over the years.......LEDs don't really burn out in the traditional sence and the rated life span they are still going to work, just not be as bright or as efficient.

Anyway my point was you don't "have" to run them at the same "MAX" current that ecotech is using. Lower current is better as far as the LEDs and their life span is concerned. For DIY there is no need, and probably it is better not to as the thermal connection to the heatsink in a DIY is likely not as efficient as the stock board factory mounted to it's heatsink. Basically this just "de-rates" them faster, meaning higher junction temp compared to ambient heatsink temps.

...that said many DIYs actually provide way, way, way, better cooling than commercial units, so it is often a mute point but worth bringing up.

If Ecotech used twice the number of LEDs at half the drive current, the lights would be brighter, last much, much longer, and use less power but the build cost would be much greater and their profit margin much less..........
 
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So it looks like Ecotech only sells the Gen 3 pucks for Gen 2 upgrade now...not sure if they sold the Gen 2 pucks for Gen 1 upgrades before but can't find them on the website anymore...maybe they caught on? So..are the Gen 3 pucks usable?
 
So it looks like Ecotech only sells the Gen 3 pucks for Gen 2 upgrade now...not sure if they sold the Gen 2 pucks for Gen 1 upgrades before but can't find them on the website anymore...maybe they caught on? So..are the Gen 3 pucks usable?


The gen 1 to gen 2 pucks pin out differently if you wanted that upgrade you had to send in your whole light
 
I'm really debating whether to go with g3 or the lumias. I'm not going to be able to push 1500 on some of them since I'll be using the ldd1000
 
I'm really debating whether to go with g3 or the lumias. I'm not going to be able to push 1500 on some of them since I'll be using the ldd1000

There is no reason you need to use 1500mA, lower current is better for long life and less heat anyway.

Beside the hassle of the connector for the pucks you get more LEDs and two pucks instead of one with the option of using (or not) optics. two pucks would give you better coverage than just one lumia, but it will cost more and be more work to use the pucks (unless you get them used)

Pros and Cons to each.....
 
The gen 1 to gen 2 pucks pin out differently if you wanted that upgrade you had to send in your whole light

Oh I don't want to use the Gen 1 pucks, was just curious if the Gen 3 can be wired up the same as mentioned in this thread because it seems like it's the only $150 upgrade Ecotech is offering on their website now, at least in the US and I cant find any used Gen 1/2 pucks at the moment.
 
There is no reason you need to use 1500mA, lower current is better for long life and less heat anyway.

Beside the hassle of the connector for the pucks you get more LEDs and two pucks instead of one with the option of using (or not) optics. two pucks would give you better coverage than just one lumia, but it will cost more and be more work to use the pucks (unless you get them used)

Pros and Cons to each.....


I think it's comparible to compare one puck to one lumia, the new lumias are 70watt, these are 170w for the two right?

I am also wondering if it makes a lot of sense to get the pros.... 100 extra it's almost double :) does anyone have experience using the pros vs the standard ones?
 
yes, the pucks are cheaper each, and slightly higer power (not sure about that though they have fewer LEDs than a lumia without running all the math it doesn't quite seem to add up right in my head) but you have to buy them as a pair, so more cost up font but almost twice the light and better coverage, plus optics.

The pros only add 4 extra LEDs one amber and one violet per puck. so not worth it at all, and quite the rip off really. If you want the extra spectrum just buy some star mounted chips and put the money toward heatsink, psu, and drivers. that said you could solder additional LEDs on to the gen 3 to make it a pro light, it sounds like a few people are planning to do this.

I really don't know why they even bothered with releasing two versions.....other than the huge profit margin for people willing to pay the premium to have 4 extra LEDs soldered onto the stock Gen3 board by the factory.
 
yes, the pucks are cheaper each, and slightly higer power (not sure about that though they have fewer LEDs than a lumia without running all the math it doesn't quite seem to add up right in my head) but you have to buy them as a pair, so more cost up font but almost twice the light and better coverage, plus optics.

The pros only add 4 extra LEDs one amber and one violet per puck. so not worth it at all, and quite the rip off really. If you want the extra spectrum just buy some star mounted chips and put the money toward heatsink, psu, and drivers. that said you could solder additional LEDs on to the gen 3 to make it a pro light, it sounds like a few people are planning to do this.

I really don't know why they even bothered with releasing two versions.....other than the huge profit margin for people willing to pay the premium to have 4 extra LEDs soldered onto the stock Gen3 board by the factory.


Thanks

I'm going to place an order and will play with them a little :)
 
yes, that is true, however they will last even longer at half driver current and full power, how much longer I have no Idea, but significant I would imaging as LED data sheets I've read only rate "pulsed" current at slightly higher than the max current, and none of them (at least those used on the radion boards) are rated for life span at max drive current. rated life span says that after, for example if they use the LM70 rating they will lose 30% output after the rated number of hours at a certain junction temp and drive current.

Even at 50% duty cycle they still are getting 1500mA for half the time with a pwm driver. so the heat is not as much to the heatsink but internally they are still getting more heat than if they were running at half the drive current but at 100% duty cycle. Regardless of duty cycle higher drive current makes LEDs less efficient and produce more heat than getting the same amount of light using a lower drive current.

Basically they assume most users will not run full power and those that do will probably upgrade in a year or two and never notice the LEDs losing power, or will just up the power over the years.......LEDs don't really burn out in the traditional sence and the rated life span they are still going to work, just not be as bright or as efficient.

Anyway my point was you don't "have" to run them at the same "MAX" current that ecotech is using. Lower current is better as far as the LEDs and their life span is concerned. For DIY there is no need, and probably it is better not to as the thermal connection to the heatsink in a DIY is likely not as efficient as the stock board factory mounted to it's heatsink. Basically this just "de-rates" them faster, meaning higher junction temp compared to ambient heatsink temps.

...that said many DIYs actually provide way, way, way, better cooling than commercial units, so it is often a mute point but worth bringing up.

If Ecotech used twice the number of LEDs at half the drive current, the lights would be brighter, last much, much longer, and use less power but the build cost would be much greater and their profit margin much less..........

I'm so glad I can count on you every time to thwart my plans.. :) I truly do appreciate your input. I love powergate too. My shipment was delayed anyway while wating on drivers, so I was able to change my order on the driver models and I stepped down each one.

SO... are there any set of circumstances where you would run LEDs at max current over a reef? Say HUGE heatsink, deep tank, or wide angle optics or any other combination of circumstances? I figure I'll follow your advise, and I can always swap around/swap out drivers later if I determine I'm not getting enough output from my fixtures later.

In my thought process, I guess I was thinking I wanted to maximize my power output for a couple reasons - 1) I was thinking of doing the wide angle optics, and 2) I have a pretty large heatsink so assumed I'd be safe. The base of it is 1/2" thick, with 3" fins. I'm going to have two of them @ 11" x 7" (2 pucks each - plus 8 or so additional LEDs external to the pucks per heat sink).
 
I'm so glad I can count on you every time to thwart my plans.. :) I truly do appreciate your input. I love powergate too. My shipment was delayed anyway while wating on drivers, so I was able to change my order on the driver models and I stepped down each one.

SO... are there any set of circumstances where you would run LEDs at max current over a reef? Say HUGE heatsink, deep tank, or wide angle optics or any other combination of circumstances? I figure I'll follow your advise, and I can always swap around/swap out drivers later if I determine I'm not getting enough output from my fixtures later.

In my thought process, I guess I was thinking I wanted to maximize my power output for a couple reasons - 1) I was thinking of doing the wide angle optics, and 2) I have a pretty large heatsink so assumed I'd be safe. The base of it is 1/2" thick, with 3" fins. I'm going to have two of them @ 11" x 7" (2 pucks each - plus 8 or so additional LEDs external to the pucks per heat sink).

Just trying to keep you on your toes :lolspin:

It's more about the fact that with a DIY you can't count on an ideal thermal interface from LED juction to pcb to heatsink. You end up with dust, dirt, finger prints, etc that can reduce the thermal efficiency of the setup. Also most of those cree chips are not really rated under real world circumstances. Some of them are, but many are rated using a juction temp rise of only 25 C which basically means they were running in a freezer. they also don't rate them actually running 1500mA (data sheet says "calculated" performance)

If a chip is rated using 85 C juction temp rise and actually tested at "max" current then yes you can run them pretty safely at that current (if you can be sure you maintain the proper junction temp). The luxeon M such as the ones Steve's LEDs sells are still only tested at 700mA. It's rated to only loose 70% output at 700mA after 50,000 hours, while maintaining an actual juction temp of under 135 C. He mounts them to an over sized copper PCB which creates a much more DIY friendly senario, with fan cooling and a sizable heatsink this should perform pretty close to that. However they still mention "current de-rating" in the specs meaning if your setup gets hotter than test parameters (juction temp has to be calculated, you can't physically measure it) then you have to reduce drive current to maintain the output lifespan they are rated for. (next best thing to copper pcb is an uber thin FRP type board with gold plated back side, paper thin like the high end commercial area lighting manufacturers are using, incredibly impressive thermal performance, I've ran some 2" dia 3up chips sitting on my hand at 700mA and it took over 10 minutes before I felt it starting to get warm right behind the chips)

.....more diodes in smaller footprint just compounds the juction temperature increase..... Ecotech may have done extensive testing to ensure they operate to spec inside thier fixtures, but once you pop one open or handle the pcb in a non-sterile environment you introduce all sorts of possible problems for thermal transfer.......

ramble, ramble, :beer:
 
was anyone help to figure out pins 13-16? anyone got the temp circuit working?

Also trying to figure out which heat sink will work best (cheapest)
 
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was anyone help to figure out pins 13-16? anyone got the temp circuit working?

Also trying to figure out which heat sink will work best (cheapest)

I plan to play with this if I can this weekend. Anyone find the exact make and model of that 3 prong chip (that looks like a transistor) that we're guessing is a temp sensor? From memory, I THINK it's labelled B253, or B2S3... but I need to look again with good light and a magnifier.

As far as heatsinks, that's up to you. The dense distribution of LEDs on each puck are going to need some good heat disipation, so I'd personally go with proper 1/4" thick base or greater sink with fins.

I found a ~14.5 x ~11 x 3.5" (tall) heat sink on ebay. It may be overkill, but that's fine with me. I just cut it in half last night to start my build. I'm going with 2 pucks (plus a few extra LEDs) per each 11 x 7 heatsink with active cooling fans above each puck.
 
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