DIY Natureef Style Denitrator Build and Data thread...
- Thread starter mrx66699
- Start date
DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
Murrays sells it but you'd have to buy 5 gallons ��
http://www.888murrays.com/renegade-pro-100-methanol/
You could buy smaller quantities online at https://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=Methanol
http://www.888murrays.com/renegade-pro-100-methanol/
You could buy smaller quantities online at https://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=Methanol
Well, for a small test, I prepared the following;
Found a plastic rectangular container and filled it with 25 liters of aquarium water. Found something plastic and similar shape to eggcrates (has square holes), and put it into water, placed a small FW aquarium pump inside (8-9Watts) and surface agitation is just barely visible only in a corner.
In day 1, I poured an ampule of Prodibio Biodigest, in day two, added one mililiters of methanol (pure, 99.9). In day 3, unplugged the motor. In day 4, added another methanol (1ml) followed by another ampoule of biodigest, after one hour, approx.
Today is day 5, and there is no sign of nitrite, but same nitrate stays where it was (about 25-35 ppm). There is no heater so water temp. varies between 24-26C, which is almost ideal, salinity is 1024. By day 4, pH was 7.63 (aquarium is 7.95).
I was expecting to see some nitrites by day 2-3.. Currently there is 2 ml of pure methanol (analytical grade) and 2 ampules of biodigest, all in just 25 L.
What do you think, is this normal and should I wait some more to see an advance?
Found a plastic rectangular container and filled it with 25 liters of aquarium water. Found something plastic and similar shape to eggcrates (has square holes), and put it into water, placed a small FW aquarium pump inside (8-9Watts) and surface agitation is just barely visible only in a corner.
In day 1, I poured an ampule of Prodibio Biodigest, in day two, added one mililiters of methanol (pure, 99.9). In day 3, unplugged the motor. In day 4, added another methanol (1ml) followed by another ampoule of biodigest, after one hour, approx.
Today is day 5, and there is no sign of nitrite, but same nitrate stays where it was (about 25-35 ppm). There is no heater so water temp. varies between 24-26C, which is almost ideal, salinity is 1024. By day 4, pH was 7.63 (aquarium is 7.95).
I was expecting to see some nitrites by day 2-3.. Currently there is 2 ml of pure methanol (analytical grade) and 2 ampules of biodigest, all in just 25 L.
What do you think, is this normal and should I wait some more to see an advance?
DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
To start things off, dont turn off the internal pump and make sure there is a lid covering the container. Keep it away from bright light or sunlight. Although the biodigest you are using does include some heterotrophic bacteria (pseudomonas sp.), it is best to get some bacteria from a mature methanol denitrator if possible. Additionally, you should understand it usually takes weeks to start up a methanol denitrator.
Here's what is happening inside the chamber when you first start it up: In a nutshell
The heterotrophic and autotrophic bacteria inside the chamber will grow and start using oxygen (for energy). As the oxygen supply runs low, the heterotrophic bacteria will start to produce special reduction enzymes to utilize the oxygen found in nitrates (NO3) for energy....thereby forming nitrites (NO2)...more enzymes are produced further reducing Nitrites until all the Oxygen is utilized leaving a by-product of nitrogen gas (N2). The Nitrogen gas forms bubbles and eventually just leaves the water as a gas.
Simply put : NO3--->NO2--->N2O--->N2(gas)
A more balanced equation using Methanol:
5 CH3OH + 6 NO3- ---> 3 N2 + 5 CO2 + 7 H2O + 6 OH-
The electrons from oxygen are used for energy and the organic carbon (methanol) is used to form the building blocks producing more bacteria. If we use C5H7NO2 as an empirical formula for the heterotrophic bacteria the unbalanced equation looks like this when methanol is used as a food source:
NO3(nitrates) + CH3OH(methanol) + H2CO3 ---> C5H7NO2(bacteria) + N2(g) + HCO3- + H2O
While in theory this happens in stages, in the real world, not all the water will be at the same stage at the same time. Proper water circulation will help keep the supply of methanol and nitrate available to the heterotrophic bacteria which in turn keep the cycle going to the desired endpoint.
IME, it is very hard to find the apex point where the spike in Nitrite is best observed.
When starting up a methanol denitrator, the best observable indicators of denitrification inside the chamber are:
- water cloudiness (often first observable indicator)- indicating a growth boom in the heterotrophic bacteria
- ORP readings drop to zero or negative - indicating the redux reactions are starting
- visual signs of bacteria - viscous, clear, slimy/stringy eventually turning to light brown/tan in color.
- Nitrates dropping to zero - indicating the endpoint of desired cycle
Once the nitrates are zero you would flush the denitrator with fresh tank water and start the cycle again. You should have a good skimmer to pick up the excess bacteria that you will be flushing into your system.
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Dave thanks for detailed answer, contains some important clues for me. Actually, yesterday, I started another experiment with a very small FW aquarium. Put 3 liters of water in it. Added 0.1 ml methanol and 0.1 ml of Biodigest. No mixing motor. Put a bag of ceramic rings to the bottom and closed the lid (have some small holes on it). Today I realised there are several bubbles collected on water surface, and more on the way from the bag. Checked the nitrite-nitrate with a strip and tada! Both stained to off the scale Purple, within few seconds. Then, after reading your answer I got the importance of keeping lid closed. I Will turn motor on again and Wè will see how it will progress, I am planning to add some fritz 460 into it also, may accelerate the process. And unfortunately, there's are no people around running a methanol denitrator to get some seeding.
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The bubbles you observed are more than likely from the air escaping the ceramic rings...
DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
It acually works out to about 3:1 ratio
Applied to your scinerio:
25L (chamber size) x 35mg/L (nitrate) = 875mg of Nitrate
3:1 ratio - 3 x 0.875g of nitrate = 2.625gram of methanol
2.625gram / 0.81 (specific gravity of methanol) = 3.24ml of methanol (100%)
This would be a target maint dose of methanol. Usually, you need a few doses to get the bacteria growing when you are first starting up. Since you've already dosed 2ml, I would advise you to add another 3ml and let it cook.
mrx66699
New member
Ebay
DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
Sent you a pm, you can find it on amazon and eBay - just do a search for strontium nitrate
hobbzz
How do I change this?
Thanks guys. I found plenty of places to get it from. My line of thinking was that everyone in this thread has some. They know where they got it from. And they know if the source is safe and doesn't have any impurities that will crash your tank.
Is the assay number the same as purity?
http://www.chemimpex.com/strontium-nitrate-anhydrous
Is the assay number the same as purity?
http://www.chemimpex.com/strontium-nitrate-anhydrous
elviraveloz
New member
So,just add H2O to powder solution?
DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
Excellent source. Assay is a fancy word for tested. Probably the best deal on that site is the kg. If you have a scale its 150grams per gallon of RO. Remember to always add the powder to water and not the reverse.
doggydoc
New member
DIY Natureef Style Denitrator Build and Data thread...
How often do you guys "clean" the denitrato chamber?
Reason I asked is mine is PACKED to the top with bacteria.
To the point that you can't see through the chamber. Is there such a thing as too much bacteria decreasing the flow inside the chamber? Do I need to take the egg crates out and "shake" some bacteria off?
How often do you guys "clean" the denitrato chamber?
Reason I asked is mine is PACKED to the top with bacteria.
To the point that you can't see through the chamber. Is there such a thing as too much bacteria decreasing the flow inside the chamber? Do I need to take the egg crates out and "shake" some bacteria off?
elviraveloz
New member
Using gloves I always scrape with my hands the inside part of chamber ( inside walls and bottom part of crate ). Never remove crates or clean crates against chamber walls.
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