DIY Natureef Style Denitrator Build and Data thread...

[DRThompson]

How often do you guys "clean" the denitrato chamber?
Reason I asked is mine is PACKED to the top with bacteria.
To the point that you can't see through the chamber. Is there such a thing as too much bacteria decreasing the flow inside the chamber? Do I need to take the egg crates out and "shake" some bacteria off?

You should remove the floating biomass near the top of the water if it builds up.

I got your pics on a PM; I would like to offer a couple of suggestions. Try to line the walls with egg crate rather than a bunch in the middle. You may need to zip-tie them; they tend to shift around and float when they build up with nitrogen gas bubbles and biomass. I've found that the middle egg crate tends to block the circulating flow of water as the bacteria build up on the egg crate.(design flaw) If you do put any in the middle, cut out a 3-4" hole in the egg crate about 1/2 way down to help with circulation. Position your internal pump so it circulates the water thru the hole.

IME, as the system mature and the display tank's nitrates drop there will be less build up of biomass. We you are dosing a lot of methanol and initially lowering your nitrates you will see a build up of biomass. Once your system has <10ppm nitrates and you are on a lower maintenance dose of methanol the biomass is not really a problem. The only thing I clean now is my internal pump about every 6 months.

I hope this helps.

Dave

 

[elviraveloz]

In my case I lined the walls with egg crate 1.5 inches away from walls, zip-tied them but I think my problem was I lined the bottom too on four pieces of pvc glued to bottom. The bacteria growth is massive. Have to clean every week. Nitrates reading 2 ppm.

 

[doggydoc]

You should remove the floating biomass near the top of the water if it builds up.



I got your pics on a PM; I would like to offer a couple of suggestions. Try to line the walls with egg crate rather than a bunch in the middle. You may need to zip-tie them; they tend to shift around and float when they build up with nitrogen gas bubbles and biomass. I've found that the middle egg crate tends to block the circulating flow of water as the bacteria build up on the egg crate.(design flaw) If you do put any in the middle, cut out a 3-4" hole in the egg crate about 1/2 way down to help with circulation. Position your internal pump so it circulates the water thru the hole.



IME, as the system mature and the display tank's nitrates drop there will be less build up of biomass. We you are dosing a lot of methanol and initially lowering your nitrates you will see a build up of biomass. Once your system has <10ppm nitrates and you are on a lower maintenance dose of methanol the biomass is not really a problem. The only thing I clean now is my internal pump about every 6 months.



I hope this helps.



Dave

Thank you very much.
My middle egg crate is designed so there are two at the bottom and then a 2-3" space in between the top crates.
So don't think water movement is a problem.

I did flush some bacteria by mistake into the tank while cleaning it. The amount of bacteria is soooo much some of it went down into the tank...
Hopefully it won't create an issue.

Thanks for your response guys.

 

[hobbzz]

Ok I just ordered the strontium. I've searched this thread again and couldn't fine the formula for strontium dosing, just the methanol formula.

 

[Ontheway]

How often do you guys "clean" the denitrato chamber?
Reason I asked is mine is PACKED to the top with bacteria.
...

Can you provide some info on your denitrator? Like sizes, water volume, approx eggcrate area (two-dimensional, of course ) and most importantly, how many ml s of methanol spend for every cycle?

 

[DRThompson]

Ok I just ordered the strontium. I've searched this thread again and couldn't fine the formula for strontium dosing, just the methanol formula.

Factors effecting strontium dose:
Chamber size
phosphate level
methanol dose

What's your chamber size? What are your phosphates? How much methanol are you dosing? How long do you cycle the chamber for?

IME, the strontium dose is not as "calculated" as the methanol. Generally, in a 10gal chamber a good starting dose is 5-10ml per cycle depending on your phosphate level. Keep in mind it will probably not bring your phosphates to zero (especially if they are high) but more likely cut them in 1/2 or better. Do not overdose the strontium, it can have negative effects on inverts. Also, strontium, like Lanthanum, will react with your ALK at higher doses.

Try to dose the strontium at least 2 hours or more after the methanol dose. Ideally, you want to dose it AFTER the peak of the cycle or about 2-3 hours before the end of the cycle. This will help keep the bacteria using Nitrates. (remember, you are dosing Strontium NITRATE)

As the nitrates run low in the chamber the bacteria will start to look for other sources of energy. Generally, the order of preference by the bacteria is: free oxygen--->Nitrates--->Iron--->Sulfates

Strontium Nitrate:
When the nitrate is used by the bacteria, it frees up the Strontium which in turn binds with phosphate forming Strontium Phosphate. Like Lanthanum, the strontium phosphate precipitates out and will not dissolve back into solution. Unlike Lanthanum, Strontium Phosphate is NOT dangerous to fish and will eventually find it's way into your skim-mate.

Feel free to PM me once you get the strontium for more help.

 

[hobbzz]

Thanks Dr. T. My phosphates have always been undetectable, but that's only because bubble algae (and macros that I actually like) are taking it up first. I'll start with a small dose. Chamber is 15g, methanol dose is 6ml (diluted 50/50), and it's cycling twice a day.

 

[HEROCA]

Thanks to Matt's help I've been putting one of this units together, Matt suggested that instead of making crate baffles, that it would be better to wrap the chamber with the egg crate. I have a question, should I make small baffles and stagger them high,low,high,low to give more surface for the bacteria to grow, or should I keep the center of the chamber open?.

 

[mrx66699]

Hernando ...keep the center open it will get overgrown and clog up the flow

 

[Ontheway]

Let me share the recent developments with my style of denitrator. After obtaining cycling under 24 h in a 8L mini-tank with siporax in it, I decided to transfer siporax to the larger container, already established and slowly developing for about one month, with very limited amount of methanol. Before transfer, just wanted to check the nitrate, already zeroed and waitin

I replaced about 25 liters of water with DT and give it a 5ml pure methanol shot, surprise! denitrator's nitrate again come to zero, under 24h Probably, thanks to already matured siporaxes.

Flushed the water once again, and this time gave it 2 ml methanol. I am expecting it to handle nitrates, by this evening (will make two days).

But, questions arised.

First is, after flushing about 40-50 liters from denitrator in two consequent days, nitrate level seemed to lower from 20s to about 10, which cannot be explained with replacement of 50 L nitrated water, aquarium has 350 liters. Therefore I think we can assume flushed water from denitrator has another way of help to lower nitrates, possibly due to excess amount of bacteria, in it. This is good part.

The problem part is, I am monitoring pH and my ph level was swinging between 7.9-8.1(day). After flushes, its now between 7.71-7.92(day). Denitrator pH is about 7.6. And blue tang is already stressed (suddenly, ich pimples all around).

Now I am thinking on flushing another container... Should I ? or wait?

 

[mrx66699]

Ich was already present in the Dt if its showing on any fish....thats a whole different issue and needs to be treated acordingly and there is no way to even suggestivly give a guess as to what might have brought it to for tuition. ....if you are seeing it that is in a later stage and the tomite is getting ready to burst and repeat

 

[Ontheway]

Ich was already present in the Dt if its showing on any fish....thats a whole different issue and needs to be treated acordingly and there is no way to even suggestivly give a guess as to what might have brought it to for tuition. ....if you are seeing it that is in a later stage and the tomite is getting ready to burst and repeat

Actually, my concern is not ich, fish is healthy and will hopefully recover. My point is the drop in pH. I am not sure to flush once again, afraiding of more pH drop.. I wonder if anyone experienced something similar, with pH.

 

[delmo]

You are taking an obviously different path than this thread is. Maybe the Doc would care to chime in?

 

[DRThompson]

Let me share the recent developments with my style of denitrator. After obtaining cycling under 24 h in a 8L mini-tank with siporax in it, I decided to transfer siporax to the larger container, already established and slowly developing for about one month, with very limited amount of methanol. Before transfer, just wanted to check the nitrate, already zeroed and waitin

I replaced about 25 liters of water with DT and give it a 5ml pure methanol shot, surprise! denitrator's nitrate again come to zero, under 24h Probably, thanks to already matured siporaxes.

Flushed the water once again, and this time gave it 2 ml methanol. I am expecting it to handle nitrates, by this evening (will make two days).

But, questions arised.

First is, after flushing about 40-50 liters from denitrator in two consequent days, nitrate level seemed to lower from 20s to about 10, which cannot be explained with replacement of 50 L nitrated water, aquarium has 350 liters. Therefore I think we can assume flushed water from denitrator has another way of help to lower nitrates, possibly due to excess amount of bacteria, in it. This is good part.

The problem part is, I am monitoring pH and my ph level was swinging between 7.9-8.1(day). After flushes, its now between 7.71-7.92(day). Denitrator pH is about 7.6. And blue tang is already stressed (suddenly, ich pimples all around).

Now I am thinking on flushing another container... Should I ? or wait?

Lower pH in denitrator is normal. The bacteria entering your system after a flush will continue to eat nitrates in low oxygen areas (between rocks and in the sand bed). What skimmer are you using? The skimmer should take care of most of the excess bacteria. If you want to continue the cycle and lower nitrates I would continue to flush. These denitraters work best when they are cycled on a regular timeframe (once a day should be minimum goal). Depending on how much you feed and your bioload, flushing 2-3 times per day is normal.

 

[Ontheway]

Thank you, Dave.

 

[hobbzz]

If I wanted to increase the amount of nitrate in my tank and back off a little, how would I do that? Simply lessen the methanol dose? My nitrates are around .2 and I'd like them to be higher, around 2 if I could magically pick a number. Thanks.

 

[delmo]

You always want each cycle to finish, so if the amount of cycles is getting rid of too much nitrate, then you probably should decrease by a cycle/day to start, which would require a slight decrease in methanol so the longer cycle doesn't finish too early and go sulfur... So if you're doing 4 cycles/day try 3/day. But that prolongs the cycles by 2 hours...so in this example lower your dose by 25% +/-

 

[hobbzz]

Right now I'm at 3/day. I'll cut back to 2 and drop the dose. THanks.

 

[delmo]

You could always feed more or add fish!

 

[McGee10]

If anyone is looking for one I have 3 or 4 Nature Reef denitrators that I am not using.