DIY Stands Template and Calculator

[chatyak]

Sorry, forgot to add to my previous post....

Rocket, what do you suggest? The design of my 3D pics in my linked thread above ^^^ or this kind of design, which is basically your original tank but stacked for two?

I don't mean back to back stands, but simply the vertical approach. In this design, the tank would sit about 3.5 inches in from the vertical corners, because unlike a stand design for a main tank, it can't go right to the corners.....whereas in the my 3D design posted above, the tank starts about 1.5 inches out from the vertical. Is that safer?

Thanks for all the help.

 

[RocketEngineer]

Hey Rocket,

How tight the corners have to be? (Where the legs meet the top frame)
I have about a 1/8in or so on two of my corners. The stand is sitting level the way it is now. I am wondering if it would be worth it for me the rebuilt the stand now to get those corners tighter. Any help is appreciated. Thank you!

If one of the verticals in each corner has no gap, you are fine. The second 2X4 was only added to give you a place to screw the decorative pieces to. If there are gaps on both uprights, something moved or wasn't square and you should consider fixing it.

rocket - If I use actual hickory for a 120 gallon stand 48x24 that I will build 34" high which dimension of wood should I use. Being as it is one of the strongest woods I imagine 1x4 should suffice. And since I will be getting it from the actual lumber yard it will be true 1x4.

I can get it cut to any dimension though so could do wider. Thoughts?

Given how strong hickory is, I don't see why a 1X4 isn't sufficient. If you maintain the L at each corner and place the top frame above the legs, you will have plenty of strength all around. Just make sure you have the tank first so you can size the stand correctly. Most 120g tanks I've seen have the plastic trim which increases the footprint slightly.

Rocket - I did a 3d mockup for my multiple frag rack stand. What do you think?

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24010551&postcount=15

Does it need lateral/cross supports anywhere? A wide base (another 2x4 on the bottom?) etc..

I don't mind overkill - so I used double 2x4s for the horizontal part.

You should be fine with that.

Sorry, forgot to add to my previous post....

Rocket, what do you suggest? The design of my 3D pics in my linked thread above ^^^ or this kind of design, which is basically your original tank but stacked for two?

I don't mean back to back stands, but simply the vertical approach. In this design, the tank would sit about 3.5 inches in from the vertical corners, because unlike a stand design for a main tank, it can't go right to the corners.....whereas in the my 3D design posted above, the tank starts about 1.5 inches out from the vertical. Is that safer?

Thanks for all the help.

Structurally they are the same with the screw strips connecting the top to the bottom. The legs sit above each other with the frames in between. Personally, I would stick with your first design as it is simpler.

 

[Rosenberg1984]

I started this stand about a week ago. After I get everything dry fit and establish all required access points for easy servicing I will further reinforce the stand. Before I skin the stand I will be sealing it all in fibreglass, sanding it down, seal it in a epoxy and then skin it. The sump floor will also have foam puzzle piece flooring designed for kids playrooms to deaden the vibrations and also give me an easy to wipe and clean surface.

 

[Stitchaholic]

If one of the verticals in each corner has no gap, you are fine. The second 2X4 was only added to give you a place to screw the decorative pieces to. If there are gaps on both uprights, something moved or wasn't square and you should consider fixing it.



Given how strong hickory is, I don't see why a 1X4 isn't sufficient. If you maintain the L at each corner and place the top frame above the legs, you will have plenty of strength all around. Just make sure you have the tank first so you can size the stand correctly. Most 120g tanks I've seen have the plastic trim which increases the footprint slightly.



You should be fine with that.



Structurally they are the same with the screw strips connecting the top to the bottom. The legs sit above each other with the frames in between. Personally, I would stick with your first design as it is simpler.

Thank you very much for you continued help rocket! Always appreciated!

 

[chatyak]

I don't know how this happened, but I have extra space on the sides of the front/back horizontals.

Left front + Right back both have about 1/4-1/2" space. Right front + Left back line up perfectly.

I measured everything 20x and it's all exact. I measured again with the stand built, and it's still exact, which is puzzling. Both sides are the same length, sides are the same length, everything.

I think what must have happened is while building it, it shifted a bit and that's why the diagonals are like that?

I'm going to re-cut the horizontal span for the gap part and make each end stick out a bit longer so it sits flush. I don't want the horizontal pieces resting on only 60% of the 2x4 vertical post.

Has this ever happened before to anyone?

Pic below shows how I first setup the screw-posts and where the gap is.

PS: I also used Gorilla wood glue wherever wood meets. Every vertical, every horizontal, every place there is that little dip between the two pieces.

Still more to do... but ya.... frustrating set back.

I think for the next stand... I'm going to buy more clamps and clamp it all together first and then screw it together. What I did with this, was clamp and then put a section together, then clamp some more etc.... I think it may have moved that way. The vertical screw posts lean slightly inwards, due to tension I guess.

 

[chatyak]

Well, this is how it looks now...

I also added wood glue anywhere the wood seams meet.

Though, there is a tiny gap that goes about 70% under one side of a tank like this. Picture makes it look large, but it's barely the size of a shim end.

How do I fix this? It's due to the slight differences in 2x4s. I thought of putting foam down, then plywood on top of the foam. Would that work? Don't know which one of these to use?

As for the gap in my previous post here, I fixed it as much as possible by making the top/3rd box frame 1/4" longer on the right/left sides like so.

This way, the whole vertical piece has a 2x4 on it, instead of just half of it. It seems pretty solid.... thoughts?

 

[cprice]

I think your of the right track with the foam and plywood combo. Depending on how much wood you would have to take off I might try to sand/plane the high points down to make it level with what you already have made.

 

[chatyak]

I think your of the right track with the foam and plywood combo. Depending on how much wood you would have to take off I might try to sand/plane the high points down to make it level with what you already have made.

It's not so much that there are high points, just that the wood bows down a bit in a U. Everything else seems to be spot on. Can't fit a shim under it.

I busted out the measuring tape and it's about 3/32th's of an inch...

The other alternative would be to just put foam down around the perimeter of where the rim meets the wood no?


Something like this stripping from HD maybe?

 

[cprice]

That could work if you were able to taper it near the sides. Make sure it is stiff enough to actually support weight rather than just fill a gap.

Another option along with what I was talking about before would be to place a 1/8th inch strip along the whole front. Then sand the ends of the strip down so that you essentially have a custom shaped shim. Alot of work but may provide the best support.

Overall, I think just properly shimming a few points (6-7) under the front rim would be sufficient to prevent any issues down the road.

But I'm no rocket engineer, just a mechanical

 

[chatyak]

AH I see what you mean. That could work. I just took another look at it. Most of the back is off and one of the sides is as well. It doesn't wobble or rock, but there is that tiny gap.

The back piece of wood from a slight bend and the side support was a fraction screwed below the horizontal pieces.

So frustrating. I glued it all and wood screwed it together. Can't take it apart now.

What about plywood on top and shims under the plywood?

 

[cprice]

I would do a 3/4" foam on top of the 2x4s and then a 1/2" piece of nice sanded plywood. You can use any decent plywood, just make sure it is very flat with no warping. I would adhere the foam to the 2x4s and then rest the plywood on top. If you want to attach the plywood to the foam use an adhesive instead of screwing it through the foam into the 2x4s. That way the wood can sit flush against the tank rim as the foam assists in the weight transfer. Screwing it to the 2x4s may cause it to follow the bend you already have.

At this point you want to find a solution that isn't going to take tons of time and additional money.

I'm currently building my brother a stand and learned that it's best to check every piece of 2x4 for any twists or bends before you leave the store. We looked through about 40+ boards to get the 10 we ended up buying.


Hopefully this all makes sense! Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[RocketEngineer]

charyak, what you have is plenty strong enough. That small gap you see is either the board having a slight dip or the tank bottom isn't flush. I would bet its the tank. With all four corners supported and no movement, the tank is sitting flat.

Good Luck.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

What I've always understood is that for rimmed tanks (pre-made Aqueon, etc) less than 48" long, they only technically need to be supported by the corners, 6" from each corner. So the dip in the front brace is not really any concern. The dip in the corners however should be taken care of.

You are not supposed to place a rimmed tank on foam, but that means you don't put a full sheet of foam on a full sheet of plywood, because the issue is that any contact with foam and tank across the center of the tank bottom (especially if it has a crossbrace) would put pressure there and eventually cause it to crack out. But, you can cut foam to fit the corners or the entire perimeter of the tank such that the foam is only under the trim (i.e. cut out the center completely)

For this purpose, IMO, the best foam to use is the white styrofoam, and a very thin piece (1/4"). The white foam compresses permanently and will even out under the weight of the tank when it's filled. The blue/pink insulation board is much more rigid and will probably be OK as well, it just doesn't compress as much so you would be left with some areas that are still under more compression/pressure than others.

That's my 2c anyways. A 40 breeder is pretty lightweight compared to a full size display tank, that's where the issue becomes more magnified. Also glass rimmed tanks are a bit more forgiving than a unrimmed glass tank or an acrylic tank - those are cases where you really need to be dead on flat and level.

 

[chatyak]

charyak, what you have is plenty strong enough. That small gap you see is either the board having a slight dip or the tank bottom isn't flush. I would bet its the tank. With all four corners supported and no movement, the tank is sitting flat.

Good Luck.

HI Rocket,

It's the 2x4. It dips. Tank bottom is 99.999% flat. The tank itself does not move or wobble, but there is this spacing.

I also thought of screwing a piece of plywood down and the screw action into the "dip" part of the 2x4 would bring it up level, however I don't think that would work now because that "dip" piece is glued/screwed into the other 2x4.

 

[chatyak]

What I've always understood is that for rimmed tanks (pre-made Aqueon, etc) less than 48" long, they only technically need to be supported by the corners, 6" from each corner. So the dip in the front brace is not really any concern. The dip in the corners however should be taken care of.

You are not supposed to place a rimmed tank on foam, but that means you don't put a full sheet of foam on a full sheet of plywood, because the issue is that any contact with foam and tank across the center of the tank bottom (especially if it has a crossbrace) would put pressure there and eventually cause it to crack out. But, you can cut foam to fit the corners or the entire perimeter of the tank such that the foam is only under the trim (i.e. cut out the center completely)

For this purpose, IMO, the best foam to use is the white styrofoam, and a very thin piece (1/4"). The white foam compresses permanently and will even out under the weight of the tank when it's filled. The blue/pink insulation board is much more rigid and will probably be OK as well, it just doesn't compress as much so you would be left with some areas that are still under more compression/pressure than others.

That's my 2c anyways. A 40 breeder is pretty lightweight compared to a full size display tank, that's where the issue becomes more magnified. Also glass rimmed tanks are a bit more forgiving than a unrimmed glass tank or an acrylic tank - those are cases where you really need to be dead on flat and level.

Hi Floyd,

Thanks. I didn't know that about 6" out from each corner. Seems like plywood is needed regardless...

I will update soon.

 

[chatyak]

I would do a 3/4" foam on top of the 2x4s and then a 1/2" piece of nice sanded plywood. You can use any decent plywood, just make sure it is very flat with no warping. I would adhere the foam to the 2x4s and then rest the plywood on top. If you want to attach the plywood to the foam use an adhesive instead of screwing it through the foam into the 2x4s. That way the wood can sit flush against the tank rim as the foam assists in the weight transfer. Screwing it to the 2x4s may cause it to follow the bend you already have.

At this point you want to find a solution that isn't going to take tons of time and additional money.

I'm currently building my brother a stand and learned that it's best to check every piece of 2x4 for any twists or bends before you leave the store. We looked through about 40+ boards to get the 10 we ended up buying.


Hopefully this all makes sense! Let me know if you have any questions.

Same... so many bad boards at lowes..

 

[soulpatch]

Same... so many bad boards at lowes..

I have spent hours at Lowes and Home Depot before trying to find straight boards. I now simply go to a semi local actual lumber yard where they cut the wood on site and will cut to length for you as well as plane all sides to ensure everything is straight.

Bit more expensive then Home Depot or Lowes but you can get actual quality wood that will last forever...

 

[bhbell]

You might want to use a piece of 1/4" MDF instead of plywood. The "Good" thing about it is it tends to swell when it gets damp if it is not constrained. So where the bottom is making firm contact you get limited/no swelling At the gap it will swell till it makes contact. This is based on observation of a 45 Tall tank I bought used. It had a MDF stand covered with a cheap vinyl laminate. Over time the laminate lost its integrity and the MDF swelled from the inevitable drips etc of use, but, no swelling where it contacted the frame of the tank bottom. It remained true, flat and firm.

 

[soulpatch]

As MDF takes on water and swells it loses structural integrity so not something you want to have happen...

 

[bhbell]

Bad wood

Bad wood

Same... so many bad boards at lowes..

I've also found that even when using "Kiln Dried" lumber that was flat straight and true at the store, it will warp or twist if you don't use it within a day or two of bringing it home. Storing it correctly helps a little.