Does lineage matter to you?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12705084#post12705084 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tacocat
The "Pink Lemonade" is a fun coral. It was first imported by Steve Tyree back when he was importing corals. Apparently, it looked pretty blah for Steve, so my buddy tubs bought it from him as a brownout special.

It colored up for John, and he sold frags to a few reefers, who happened to be great photographers (which was a very hard thing to find back then). The two most notable were mane3215 and ROBZ. Everyone who saw a pic wanted to have "The Green Acro with Pink Polyps".

John lost the colony, during a tank upgrade I think, and the only viable colony left was the colony belonging to snipersps. He sold them through ubs, and that's when the pink lemonade label got attached. As far as scientific classification goes, Your guess is as good as mine.

Back to the original question. "Is lineage important to you?" No, but it sure is fun. It's most fun when a buddy says to you, "Do you still have the blah blah I lost a few years ago?", and you say, "Ahh yeah."

Of course I'm going to charge him $500. :D
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Great story. And EXACTLY my point. Where does anyone get "pink Lemonade" today? What is "pink Lemonade"? Green with pink polyps? Is that all that defines it? Or do you have to get it from one of the people you mentioned? All this nonsense is why these names suck, and lineages are impossible.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12706075#post12706075 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda
Great story. And EXACTLY my point. Where does anyone get "pink Lemonade" today? What is "pink Lemonade"? Green with pink polyps? Is that all that defines it? Or do you have to get it from one of the people you mentioned? All this nonsense is why these names suck, and lineages are impossible.
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What do you propose? Several hardcore SPS keepers tried to give biological classification, but the naysayers who kept decrying that the skeletons needs to bleached, blah blah blah took the fun out of it.

If you want to be sure of what you are getting, get your corals from friends or people you trust.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12707067#post12707067 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tacocat
What do you propose? Several hardcore SPS keepers tried to give biological classification, but the naysayers who kept decrying that the skeletons needs to bleached, blah blah blah took the fun out of it.

If you want to be sure of what you are getting, get your corals from friends or people you trust.
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I am not foolish enough to think there is an option. I would suggest using the unioversally recognized and peer reviewed scientifics. Thats the great thing about SPS- make a frag, ID it, and the colony is no worse for wear. This is a system which can be confirmed or denied accurately and usefully. But this hobby has gotten quite rich and greedy by the practice as it is, so I know it will continue until it becomes so corrupt, that it self defeats. By this, I mean, eventyually there will be so many people claiming to have so many "brand name" corals that it will no longer be a desireable trait. Since there is no tangible way to confirm nor deny this, it will be THUNDERDOME-esque!:D

BTW, getting corals from friends or people you trust in NO WAY confirms what coral you are getting. It only makes you more comfortable with the purchase, as you belive they are not being dishonest. However, what about before that person. How do they know the importer, or vendor before them, or whatever, didnt mis-ID, mislead, or mis-market? You cant, because there is no checks and balances. The entire system is based on integrity, and this systrem is ripe with corruption and dishonestly in the name of profit.

Like I said, I wish it could be different, but it isnt.
 
that is too funny this this thread got nominated...come on guy go vote get this to be julys thread of the month....
 
Hilarious to me that people get upset about named/LE corals and lineage. People buy what they like, and an LE coral and lineage gives a person an idea of what the coral can look like under certain conditions. Naming a coral by species doesn't identify it specifically, as corals of the same species can have a variety of color combos. It is interesting to me to know where a coral comes from and the story behind it. Knowing the person who actually collected it is even cooler. My tank has LE/named corals and other corals that just caught my attention, but all of them are corals I like. I don't keep LE's just bc they are named, and if I like something lineage or not I will get it. Easier to sell frags of LE's though.
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12707788#post12707788 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda

BTW, getting corals from friends or people you trust in NO WAY confirms what coral you are getting. It only makes you more comfortable with the purchase, as you belive they are not being dishonest. However, what about before that person. How do they know the importer, or vendor before them, or whatever, didnt mis-ID, mislead, or mis-market?
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As far as LE corals go, I feel like the price inflation that goes along with having a fancy schmancy name is ludicrous, but it does serve as a good way to identify a particular coral (and it's lineage). I'm sure people sell "fake" LE corals with made up lineage all the time, but as long as the coral has the same attributes, that's all that really matters to me.

By the way, are you sure this is a purple monster?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12818772#post12818772

Honestly, I'm a little surprised you would post pictures of your LE corals after your long rants. Between this thread, the thread where you derided everyone about stereotyping Japanese tanks (and how it's consequently racist), and a couple of others, it almost seems like you're just on here for a debate...

:rolleyes:
 
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I think it's great that it got nominated.

This thread is a shining example of differing views about coral-keeping in the hobby. Something that is mirrored in nearly every desirable tangible fixation on this planet.

Do I want a Tag or Rolex...
...Italian sportscar or a Hemi...
...PS3 or XBOX...
...Nike or Adidas...
...generic or brand name medicine...
...Ginger or Mary Ann...
...blue or red pill...

Words like 'elitism' or 'snobs' are now cliche when describing this notion, but that's pharisaical. Being critical of it is simply just 'reverse-snobbery'.

Should a person feel guilty because they chose to save up to buy a Bubble King? Should a person feel embarrassed because they chose to save a little and buy a Bubble Master? The answer should be no for both.

The hobby is yours. The choice is yours. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Love it the way you love it!

:)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12831042#post12831042 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Akerfeldt
As far as LE corals go, I feel like the price inflation that goes along with having a fancy schmancy name is ludicrous, but it does serve as a good way to identify a particular coral (and it's lineage). I'm sure people sell "fake" LE corals with made up lineage all the time, but as long as the coral has the same attributes, that's all that really matters to me.

By the way, are you sure this is a purple monster?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12818772#post12818772

Honestly, I'm a little surprised you would post pictures of your LE corals after your long rants. Between this thread, the thread where you derided everyone about stereotyping Japanese tanks (and how it's consequently racist), and a couple of others, it almost seems like you're just on here for a debate...

:rolleyes:
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Nope. If you read my thread closely, I have always stated that I dont like it, but I know its here, and have to use it because it is here. There is no other way around it. I wish it wree different, but it isnt.
People are so quick to jump to conclusions about me, and essenetially put words in my mouth. In this thread (which is all I will comment on here), I have very specifically, and very numerously, said many times, lineage isnt bad, it is just that it is completely impossible to acquire the vast majority of the time. I DO think that naming corals has gotten out of control and has been a detriment to this hobby for many resons, yet there is no real way to combat it, as it is in use, and will continue to be in use until there are so many problems with it, it loses its appeal.

FWIW, it made me laugh that you accused me of being only here for debate, and not true discussion of this topic, but then would research my "other" thread's comments, and use them here. Who's being debate driven?!:p
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12831507#post12831507 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Unarce

Should a person feel guilty because they chose to save up to buy a Bubble King? Should a person feel embarrassed because they chose to save a little and buy a Bubble Master? The answer should be no for both.

The hobby is yours. The choice is yours. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Love it the way you love it!

:)
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I agree completely. I would love to be consider the elite in this hobby, as people like you are.

My only point through this thing, is if you buy the Bubble King, you have a way to confirm it's not a "Bubble Kong"!!:D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12830841#post12830841 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by roblack
Hilarious to me that people get upset about named/LE corals and lineage. People buy what they like, and an LE coral and lineage gives a person an idea of what the coral can look like under certain conditions. Naming a coral by species doesn't identify it specifically, as corals of the same species can have a variety of color combos. It is interesting to me to know where a coral comes from and the story behind it. Knowing the person who actually collected it is even cooler. My tank has LE/named corals and other corals that just caught my attention, but all of them are corals I like. I don't keep LE's just bc they are named, and if I like something lineage or not I will get it. Easier to sell frags of LE's though.
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Roblack:

My point all along in this issue is- you dont have lineaged corals, you *think* or *believe* you have lineaged corals. Can you prove to me you do? No offense, but I doubt you can, and that is my only point. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a tank full of corals, that are just that, corals.

You yourself said, you buy corals that you like. By sight? Growth? Like in what way? Because I am having a hard time determining the diffrenec between your firsts entence and the rest of your post.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12831689#post12831689 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda
Roblack:

My point all along in this issue is- you dont have lineaged corals, you *think* or *believe* you have lineaged corals. Can you prove to me you do? No offense, but I doubt you can, and that is my only point. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a tank full of corals, that are just that, corals.

You yourself said, you buy corals that you like. By sight? Growth? Like in what way? Because I am having a hard time determining the diffrenec between your firsts entence and the rest of your post.
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who cares if you can prove lineage? It seems like you are the only one.

If I buy an "LE" from someone I trust, and It grows and looks just like all the pictures I see of said "LE" coral. That is good enough for me. Fortunately, most of these corals that are extroardinary enough to get named, are extraordinary enough to determine if what you have is a "knockoff" simply by looking at pics of the "authentic" coral.

For example, there are alot of "superman monti" knockoffs out there, but they all look a little different from the authentic superman monti.

I have a Jack Russel Terrior, when I bought him 8 years ago. Jack Russels were not an AKC recognized breed. In other words, no papers or proof of lineage could be had for Jack Russel puppies. I had to take the breeders word for it that he was a full blooded Jack. All you had to go by was the way the pup looked and trust in the breeder. And that was good enough for me and many many other Jack Russel owners at the time.

As long as you are happy with your Frag (or Dog) that is all that should matter. :)
 
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My point all along in this issue is- you dont have lineaged corals, you *think* or *believe* you have lineaged corals. Can you prove to me you do? No offense, but I doubt you can, and that is my only point. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a tank full of corals, that are just that, corals.
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sure would you like a hand written note from Tubs. im sure is contact info is still the same even tho he doesnt grow anything any more....lol...

this is too funny you are right tho how do you know unless you got it from Tubs or tyree or a person who did get it from then because there names are documented on his site. then it goes back to trust...lol...in circles and circle and circle this will go...

but IDK i only get LE corals like snypers, tubs, and tyree only if the lineage can be tracked if it can't then who is to say it isnt a marincultered piece that looks like it. and as stated early in the thread getting from these guys you know where the coral came from when it was take from the ocean, by whom it was taken by, in most cases id'd to the best of someone abilities and how long it has been in captivity. you cannt prove this with other peice that arnt documented, and then it comes down to preferance. i personaly like to know this info cause it is kinda cool and it is interesting to know this about and animal that had been taken from the wild and captivily propigated for a number of years.
 
And all of these above posts are EXACTLY proving my point. You are all essentially saying that lineages CANNOT feasibly be proven! So, can we say that we have lineaged pieces- NO!!!! I dont care if I do or I don't, but I also don't claim that I do or don't.

Once again, I am ONLY trying to discuss that fact that the "lineages" people claim they have, are not lineages at all.

JER-Z, I disagree that LE corals have an easy to pick out difference. Why are there "fakes" then? They are "supposedly" easy to visually tell apart, are they not? I perosnally dont believe in fakes vs. reals, because where is the conformation standards for these LE's? Who establishes them? With your dog, you have faith that it is a true Jack Russell, and that is good enough for you. Try to sell a puppy from your dog under the claim it is a true Jack Russell, and see how many times you get asked for documnetation. Try to do anything with that dog that erquires it to be noted as a pure bred, and see what happens. THAT is my point. Surely its a wonderful dog, and is exactly what you want, but there are certainly limitations to what can do in terms to its pre bred nature, is there not?

fatrip, exactly- cicles and circles. I am not saying the "LE' corals arent beautiful, desirable, healthy, worth their price, whatever. I am saying you cannot traclk the lineage unless you can absolutely 100% track the lineage. Sounds wierd, but think about it.
 
exactly and that is why i get it from the source or from a person who got it strait formthe source...there for it can be proven that it is indeed from the same colonie that the original coral was named from.

so truely as you said before is it only real if you get it form tubs or from the person who originally go it from tubs, as you keep getting farther and father from the main colony it is harder and harder to prove the chain...

We should create a coral AKC...lol...that would make this so much easyer. we could be milionairs....hahahaha....
 
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