Good morning Mr. Phelps, your post count will self-destruct in 10 seconds if you keep that up.
Sorry Alan, but I need to get to 50,000 post before I can change my avatar again.
Englishrebel's 260 Gallon System Build
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Good morning Mr. Phelps, your post count will self-destruct in 10 seconds if you keep that up.
Sorry Alan, but I need to get to 50,000 post before I can change my avatar again.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Boy -- you guys are TOUGH but I understand the reasoning. I have seen posts from cphelps in quite a few threads lately. I must admit that I did accelerate my posts to get to 500 -- but they were genuine ones.
I guess if you're going to break the rules, don't advertise the fact.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Heh Tom post away as much as you like in this thread (I'm going for a split by years end -- 2009 that is). :lol:
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Thank you kindly sir. Stay tuned -- the skimmer arrives this week (God and UPS permitting).
Hey everybody! Alan has volunteered, in another thread, to be a Guinea pig for a LED hood. That will make the New Year exciting when he gets things up and running. 
Seriously Alan; you are welcome to try them but I think you might be better off with the T-5's you are thinking about. Let someone with several tanks take the LED trial to RC. I've just not seen that many reports on how tanks are doing using them.
With that five foot tank you probably will use two backs of 39 watt (60 watts if overdriven) T-5 HO. There are some 60" tubes around but they don't have the color temps for a reef tank. The tubes are actually 34" from the pin ends so there will be some overlap at the center. Even so there should be plenty of room to fit in two banks of 7-8 tubes each in the canopy. That allows a mix of daylight (6500-7000K), blue-white (10,000-14,000K) and some pure actinic. As far as the best brands that would be a good question for Grim Reefer as he is our resident T-5 expert.
Seriously Alan; you are welcome to try them but I think you might be better off with the T-5's you are thinking about. Let someone with several tanks take the LED trial to RC. I've just not seen that many reports on how tanks are doing using them.
With that five foot tank you probably will use two backs of 39 watt (60 watts if overdriven) T-5 HO. There are some 60" tubes around but they don't have the color temps for a reef tank. The tubes are actually 34" from the pin ends so there will be some overlap at the center. Even so there should be plenty of room to fit in two banks of 7-8 tubes each in the canopy. That allows a mix of daylight (6500-7000K), blue-white (10,000-14,000K) and some pure actinic. As far as the best brands that would be a good question for Grim Reefer as he is our resident T-5 expert.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Drew
Actually I was looking at these Aquaillumination as I have heard bad things about Solaris here on RC. I was not looking at retrofits (I assume that means you buy all the bits and pieces and put it together in your own canopy). I was thinking more of a pendant fixture that would hang from the ceiling. Would this give off too much light into the room because we will be able to see the tank from the living room while watching TV?
Any thoughts?
Tom
Thanks for volunteering me, please PM me with your credit card number.
Thanks for the suggestions on lamps -- I think T5s are the way to go right now. I wasn't so much concerned about the guinea pig issue it was the cost. :eek2:I will mosey over to Grims thread and ask for recommendations.
:thumbdown I think Ed voted no on the LED's.
Alan,
As to a suspended mount on an LED I would think the light does not spread that much. Each LED has its own tiny reflector built in. It produces a very focused beam. So focused that it creates problems when viewing a LED computer or TV screen from an angle on older models.
I would be interested if Ed would tell us more on his experience as I've been looking on LED lighting input from users. I know my one try with PC lighting soured me on those.
Alan,
As to a suspended mount on an LED I would think the light does not spread that much. Each LED has its own tiny reflector built in. It produces a very focused beam. So focused that it creates problems when viewing a LED computer or TV screen from an angle on older models.
I would be interested if Ed would tell us more on his experience as I've been looking on LED lighting input from users. I know my one try with PC lighting soured me on those.
Ed Reef
New member
Well LED shine down like a spot light - very precise so the moment you have a overhang or corals above, the bottom don't get any lights anymore. However, those corals that are hit with this 'spotlight' will do well, even SPS so you do have to planned your scape very carefully.
No heat is transmitted out so that's cool and some saving in energy
but a lot of upfront investment for this...
Light spread is limited (as it acts like a spot light) but if you do intend to go with AI, it's much better as the set-up is modular so you can add a few of them to your set-up and inter connect them.
Colors options are great and so is the option for sunset/sunrise setting...really cool but there are way to get the same effect with Mh/T5 combo or T5 without blowing out so much $$ IMO
Overall I hear of some good comments on AI but was badly burn when I used the Solaris I4 series
but FWIW, their new Solaris I5 is made-in-US
There is a guy in Zeovit forum that's using AI quite successfully...
Hope that's helps....
Let me know if you want more insight into LED
No heat is transmitted out so that's cool and some saving in energy
but a lot of upfront investment for this... Light spread is limited (as it acts like a spot light) but if you do intend to go with AI, it's much better as the set-up is modular so you can add a few of them to your set-up and inter connect them.
Colors options are great and so is the option for sunset/sunrise setting...really cool but there are way to get the same effect with Mh/T5 combo or T5 without blowing out so much $$ IMO
Overall I hear of some good comments on AI but was badly burn when I used the Solaris I4 series
but FWIW, their new Solaris I5 is made-in-USThere is a guy in Zeovit forum that's using AI quite successfully...
Hope that's helps....
Let me know if you want more insight into LED
My input on the lighting, mostly from the research I went through a few months back, and I went through ALOT:
* LED's just don't have the output, YET. If you group enough of them they do, but its still not cost effective. I called a couple engineering buddies in that field and they are telling me its going to be another 18 months (moores law?) minimum before they become cost effective in California (where I don't live). It will be multiples of 18 months before they become cost effective in places like Illinois. (.13 kwh)
At the end of the day, besides the "coolness factor" You can either get the par you want with MH or with MH/actinics, or go all T5. Either way will do it cheaper than LED.
* I have a 10 foot tank. I looked at peoples tanks that were 10 feet and 5 feet to see what they were doing. If you go to Reefgeek.com you CAN get all the bulbs in 5 foot sections. You have several options. Get a 5 foot fixture, or a 4 foot fixture. If you have the time you get more bang for the buck building the fixture out of icecap SLR's. You can choose to run the bulbs overdriven or not. If you overdrive the bulbs you lessen their life and shift the color output because of the higher energy.
On a 10 foot tank I opted to go with 2 4 footers for practical purposes. IT easier not to have them jammed together (inwall tank and one short side is viewable) along with the fact that the fixtures I picked were 12 bulbers and have a tendency to burn the bajesus out of stuff. I wanted small "holes" to put more light sensitive corals.
So if I were you I would either:
1) Build a slr kit if the mounting isn't going to be viewable and you have the room for a bulky light rack and you have the time.
2) Buy a non overdriven 5 foot pendant if you have the $. Your only real options in the US are Geisman and Sfigoli. ATI is rumored to make one for US consumptions but I've never seen it for sale .
3) Buy a 4 foot pendant if you cant do #1 and don't want to spend the cash on #2.
Notice I did not mention MH's. I like the flexibility of being able to change you color in increments with t5's and being able to bring on banks separately for sunrise and sunset. The granularity is much smaller in engineering speak. Plus IMHO if you run MH's you need to run supplemental VHO actinics anyways, so why not just run the T5's? The only reason I see to run MH's is the easier mounting options of them, the smaller pendants, and the shimmer if you like that kind of thing.
Anyways thats my analysis.
* LED's just don't have the output, YET. If you group enough of them they do, but its still not cost effective. I called a couple engineering buddies in that field and they are telling me its going to be another 18 months (moores law?) minimum before they become cost effective in California (where I don't live). It will be multiples of 18 months before they become cost effective in places like Illinois. (.13 kwh)
At the end of the day, besides the "coolness factor" You can either get the par you want with MH or with MH/actinics, or go all T5. Either way will do it cheaper than LED.
* I have a 10 foot tank. I looked at peoples tanks that were 10 feet and 5 feet to see what they were doing. If you go to Reefgeek.com you CAN get all the bulbs in 5 foot sections. You have several options. Get a 5 foot fixture, or a 4 foot fixture. If you have the time you get more bang for the buck building the fixture out of icecap SLR's. You can choose to run the bulbs overdriven or not. If you overdrive the bulbs you lessen their life and shift the color output because of the higher energy.
On a 10 foot tank I opted to go with 2 4 footers for practical purposes. IT easier not to have them jammed together (inwall tank and one short side is viewable) along with the fact that the fixtures I picked were 12 bulbers and have a tendency to burn the bajesus out of stuff. I wanted small "holes" to put more light sensitive corals.
So if I were you I would either:
1) Build a slr kit if the mounting isn't going to be viewable and you have the room for a bulky light rack and you have the time.
2) Buy a non overdriven 5 foot pendant if you have the $. Your only real options in the US are Geisman and Sfigoli. ATI is rumored to make one for US consumptions but I've never seen it for sale .
3) Buy a 4 foot pendant if you cant do #1 and don't want to spend the cash on #2.
Notice I did not mention MH's. I like the flexibility of being able to change you color in increments with t5's and being able to bring on banks separately for sunrise and sunset. The granularity is much smaller in engineering speak. Plus IMHO if you run MH's you need to run supplemental VHO actinics anyways, so why not just run the T5's? The only reason I see to run MH's is the easier mounting options of them, the smaller pendants, and the shimmer if you like that kind of thing.
Anyways thats my analysis.
BTW-Here's Ed'd thread 295/Solaris.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
wmilas
Thanks for you in-depth analysis (and I know you're busy right now). I am really leaning toward T5s. Given I am considering a 5' tank and have a quote from Aquarium Obsessed who offered a 10% discount on the Sfigoli if I order with the tank, I think I will pursue that option.
Again thanks.
Tom
I think I read that a while back when I heard about LEDs. I think I can wait out the initial experimentation and see what falls out of the tree.
I just cracked the impeller housing on my skimmer pump :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:
I knew I should have backed off on those slip joint pliers. GRRRRRRR
Thanks for you in-depth analysis (and I know you're busy right now). I am really leaning toward T5s. Given I am considering a 5' tank and have a quote from Aquarium Obsessed who offered a 10% discount on the Sfigoli if I order with the tank, I think I will pursue that option.
Again thanks.
Tom
I think I read that a while back when I heard about LEDs. I think I can wait out the initial experimentation and see what falls out of the tree.
I just cracked the impeller housing on my skimmer pump :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:
I knew I should have backed off on those slip joint pliers. GRRRRRRR
Wise choice on the lights and don't work on pumps when you are typing.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
And it's a good job that the Mods ***** out expletives or I would probably be banned by now.<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14035558#post14035558 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
Wise choice on the lights and don't work on pumps when you are typing.
plyr58
New member
It seems to me that LEDs are high on the coolness factor and still low on the execution/ quality control factor. Ed's thread made me sick reading about all the problems he has gone through with his incredibly expensive solaris fixture. I would have been ready to shoot someone.
I am planning my 210 upgrade (already have the tank) and have throught long and hard about T5s. Mt conclusion was that I had to have the shimmer from the MH's. Plus, I just like light from MH's better. Can't say as I know why. I was real close to going with T5s through. Almost a toss up. I ended up going with 3 250W LumenMax Elite HQI pendants (mainly because I already have 2 Icecap HQI ballasts that are almost new.)
My 90 has an Aqualight Pro on top of the tank (sitting on the legs). There is a ton of light spillout from underneath the unit and the tank is open top (read carpet surfing solar wrasse-Doh!) and the next tank will definitely have a canopy to curbe light spillage and fish jumping. It is amazing how much more yellow the room looks when the tank lights turn off!
I am planning my 210 upgrade (already have the tank) and have throught long and hard about T5s. Mt conclusion was that I had to have the shimmer from the MH's. Plus, I just like light from MH's better. Can't say as I know why. I was real close to going with T5s through. Almost a toss up. I ended up going with 3 250W LumenMax Elite HQI pendants (mainly because I already have 2 Icecap HQI ballasts that are almost new.)
My 90 has an Aqualight Pro on top of the tank (sitting on the legs). There is a ton of light spillout from underneath the unit and the tank is open top (read carpet surfing solar wrasse-Doh!) and the next tank will definitely have a canopy to curbe light spillage and fish jumping. It is amazing how much more yellow the room looks when the tank lights turn off!
plyr58
New member
did you see this thread?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1529377&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Coral Dynamics (near the racetrack in Concord) is also working on an LED light that I have read a little about in the past
http://www.aquariumled.com/
So, LEDS are getting there, but in general I would say leave 'em for the moment.
Oh, and my RKE should be here on the 6th. Darn you New Years Holiday!:uzi:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1529377&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Coral Dynamics (near the racetrack in Concord) is also working on an LED light that I have read a little about in the past
http://www.aquariumled.com/
So, LEDS are getting there, but in general I would say leave 'em for the moment.
Oh, and my RKE should be here on the 6th. Darn you New Years Holiday!:uzi:
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
savichus
Glad to have you tag along. I should have more photos this week (more plumbing -- of course)
I am with you in the LED issue although I think that the Aquaillumination lights are of better quality than the ones Ed had. On MHs I just don't like the heat issue -- especially in a canopy. I think I will have a very compact "canopy" in the order of a 6" high black acrylic three-sided affair that will rest on the tank top and slide off towards you (as you stand in front of the tank). The pendant will hang with it's bottom just below the top of the canopy. This should stop the direct light but will still get light up on the ceiling.
What do you think?
Glad to have you tag along. I should have more photos this week (more plumbing
-- of course)Drew
I am with you in the LED issue although I think that the Aquaillumination lights are of better quality than the ones Ed had. On MHs I just don't like the heat issue -- especially in a canopy. I think I will have a very compact "canopy" in the order of a 6" high black acrylic three-sided affair that will rest on the tank top and slide off towards you (as you stand in front of the tank). The pendant will hang with it's bottom just below the top of the canopy. This should stop the direct light but will still get light up on the ceiling.
What do you think?
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