Englishrebel's 260 Gallon System Build
- Thread starter EnglishRebel
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Just to chime in on heat. Watt for watt there is not a terrific difference between the heat generated by MH as compared to fluorescent. It is just that the fluorescent spread it out more and produce somewhat less radiant heat effects. The point is, if you run 1000 watts of T-5's you may have the same heat issues as running a 1000 watts of MH. I don't want to have people think that having T-5 is going to spare themselves a chiller when it may not.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Darn it, I may have to eat my words. I'm still torn about the LED fixtures. Frank the guy who built my QT tank has one of the Aquaillumination units on his 48x30 and to be honest it's really nice and he's growing corals okay and he has clams in his tank. The controller is really nice and will simulate sunrise and sunset by ramping the intensity of the LEDs up and down. If I had to rate the cool factor I would give it a 9.
Stay tuned for a decision some time soon.
Stay tuned for a decision some time soon.
Yes folks, tune in tomorrow when we will find out if Alan is seduced by the LED temptress. All in our next episode of "Building My Reef"; RC's first on-line" soap opera.
edandsandy
Active member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14043104#post14043104 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
Yes folks, tune in tomorrow when we will find out if Alan is seduced by the LED temptress. All in our next episode of "Building My Reef"; RC's first on-line" soap opera.
You are so funny:lol:
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14043104#post14043104 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
Yes folks, tune in tomorrow when we will find out if Alan is seduced by the LED temptress. All in our next episode of "Building My Reef"; RC's first on-line" soap opera.
I think "The Guiding Light" is more appropriate. :lol: :lol:
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Part 12
The work of ‘Joe The Plumber’ continues.
My half union ball valve arrived Saturday so I went ahead and plumbed the suction side of the main system pump.
I waiting on Jeff to ship me the skimmer so for the time being I will start on the gravity return from the main tank (even though I haven’t even ordered one yet, :lol2: and the pumped return back to the main tank
Here you will see the main 1-1/2†gravity drain coming down through the floor of the sunroom above (the one on the right) together with the pumped return pipe (the one on the left) and a 1/2" PVC conduit to feed the tank lighting etc..
The 1†tee splits off a feed down to the QT to allow me to fill the tank if I need to QT a fish or do a water change.
Here the pipe tees off again to the QT tank. The capped off branch is for a future tank underneath the shelf. The John Guest valve on the cap is so that I can let a little water drain off to the refugium. This will avoid having stagnant water sit in the pipe and cause problems.
The main drain continues around the room and down to the sump area. I have changed to 1†PVC with an inline tee to allow the water to go to both inlets on the sump.
This is the pumped return to the main tank. I am waiting on hoses from Jeff to connect the fitting on the Christmas tree (the center 1â€Â) to the return pipe.
First in line is the 1-1/2†check valve to prevent water in the line from flowing back to the sump when the pump is off. I like these because they are transparent so you can see if there is a problem with a snail or whatever getting trapped an keeping the flap open.
The pipe continues around the room and up to the sunroom above. Here are the two pipes (and an electrical box for tank lighting and circulation devices fed from the main panel in the equipment room) where they come up through the floor.
Stay tuned for more plumbing (and some electrical) next time.
The work of ‘Joe The Plumber’ continues.
My half union ball valve arrived Saturday so I went ahead and plumbed the suction side of the main system pump.
I waiting on Jeff to ship me the skimmer so for the time being I will start on the gravity return from the main tank (even though I haven’t even ordered one yet, :lol2: and the pumped return back to the main tank
Here you will see the main 1-1/2†gravity drain coming down through the floor of the sunroom above (the one on the right) together with the pumped return pipe (the one on the left) and a 1/2" PVC conduit to feed the tank lighting etc..
The 1†tee splits off a feed down to the QT to allow me to fill the tank if I need to QT a fish or do a water change.
Here the pipe tees off again to the QT tank. The capped off branch is for a future tank underneath the shelf. The John Guest valve on the cap is so that I can let a little water drain off to the refugium. This will avoid having stagnant water sit in the pipe and cause problems.
The main drain continues around the room and down to the sump area. I have changed to 1†PVC with an inline tee to allow the water to go to both inlets on the sump.
This is the pumped return to the main tank. I am waiting on hoses from Jeff to connect the fitting on the Christmas tree (the center 1â€Â) to the return pipe.
First in line is the 1-1/2†check valve to prevent water in the line from flowing back to the sump when the pump is off. I like these because they are transparent so you can see if there is a problem with a snail or whatever getting trapped an keeping the flap open.
The pipe continues around the room and up to the sunroom above. Here are the two pipes (and an electrical box for tank lighting and circulation devices fed from the main panel in the equipment room) where they come up through the floor.
Stay tuned for more plumbing (and some electrical) next time.
Alan: Don't do it. I too was seduced by the evil LED temptress. Step back and look at it like you were specing the purchase for a client. Use your engineering skills. Thats what I had to do ultimately at the end. Lets break it down:
1) The color combination and spectral range is better with T5's than LED's.
2) T5's, MH's, and LED's ALL dissipate the same energy per watt. You know that, its a function of reality. MH's radiate light energy in a spotlight into the tank. Alot of that light energy is in the non viewable spectrum, (IR ect). The remainder of the energy is heat, which because of the fixture design, is also radiated down into the tank. Thats why people believe MH's are hotter than t5's they aren't. They just move the energy around in different ways.
T5's radiate more usable light energy (but slightly less over all light energy and slightly more heat energy than MH's believe it or not) than MH's and since they are not point sources the light penetration is more even across the tank. The (good) fixtures are built with fans to cool the ends of the t5 bulbs to increase efficiency. The side effect is that heat is usually side or top vented which keeps heat energy out of the tank. There is less IR penetration also. The overall effect is less heat transfered to the tank and more heat transfered to the atmosphere.
LED's Are a totally different beast. They dump ALL their heat on one of their junctions that will be connected to a heatsink (so as to not blow out the LED and/or driver). The benefit is since heat is not radiated by the part that emits light, it can be routed wherever you want. LED efficiency is still lower than t5/MH so the amount of heat generated per watt is HIGHER than a t5/mh. Its just that you can move it where it doesn't hurt.. the top of the unit where fans can blow it away.
3) LED's have a fixed angle built in reflector. They are usually quite narrow resulting in minimal light spread. The result is that there is not much side radiation. This can cause serious hot spots. I actually saw a coral with a circular burn mark where one LED hit it. So you end up with insanely high PAR in small areas that quickly drop off.
4) LED's have very fixed spectrum's. You can't plug and play with them. All you can do is dim some and light others. If you have say a bank of 14k and a bank of 20k, your usable range is only 14-20k with either end being less par because you aren't using all the bulbs.
5) LED's in the future will be the best choice. They will get drastically cheaper causing more spectrums to be included as "extra" bulbs, the optics will get better, and the efficiency will get higher where they actually beat traditional lighting with the light/heat ratio.
1) The color combination and spectral range is better with T5's than LED's.
2) T5's, MH's, and LED's ALL dissipate the same energy per watt. You know that, its a function of reality. MH's radiate light energy in a spotlight into the tank. Alot of that light energy is in the non viewable spectrum, (IR ect). The remainder of the energy is heat, which because of the fixture design, is also radiated down into the tank. Thats why people believe MH's are hotter than t5's they aren't. They just move the energy around in different ways.
T5's radiate more usable light energy (but slightly less over all light energy and slightly more heat energy than MH's believe it or not) than MH's and since they are not point sources the light penetration is more even across the tank. The (good) fixtures are built with fans to cool the ends of the t5 bulbs to increase efficiency. The side effect is that heat is usually side or top vented which keeps heat energy out of the tank. There is less IR penetration also. The overall effect is less heat transfered to the tank and more heat transfered to the atmosphere.
LED's Are a totally different beast. They dump ALL their heat on one of their junctions that will be connected to a heatsink (so as to not blow out the LED and/or driver). The benefit is since heat is not radiated by the part that emits light, it can be routed wherever you want. LED efficiency is still lower than t5/MH so the amount of heat generated per watt is HIGHER than a t5/mh. Its just that you can move it where it doesn't hurt.. the top of the unit where fans can blow it away.
3) LED's have a fixed angle built in reflector. They are usually quite narrow resulting in minimal light spread. The result is that there is not much side radiation. This can cause serious hot spots. I actually saw a coral with a circular burn mark where one LED hit it. So you end up with insanely high PAR in small areas that quickly drop off.
4) LED's have very fixed spectrum's. You can't plug and play with them. All you can do is dim some and light others. If you have say a bank of 14k and a bank of 20k, your usable range is only 14-20k with either end being less par because you aren't using all the bulbs.
5) LED's in the future will be the best choice. They will get drastically cheaper causing more spectrums to be included as "extra" bulbs, the optics will get better, and the efficiency will get higher where they actually beat traditional lighting with the light/heat ratio.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Again thanks for your input. The LED fixtures I saw on Franks tank really simulate sunrise and sunset by the use of dimmers. The Sfiligoi fixture I'm looking at has 8 bulbs and they are switched in banks of 4. Do you get more switching options if you go with more bulbs (say 10 or 12)?
Also did you look at ATI here ATI Would you use a 48" or a 60" on a 60" tank?
Also did you look at ATI here ATI Would you use a 48" or a 60" on a 60" tank?
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
WOOHOO I just ordered THE TANK
Here's what I ordered from Aquarium Obsessed.
60Lx30Dx24H with single external overflow 48" x 12" x 6" on the back with six 1-1/2" bulkheads and 6 triangular gussets under bottom glass for additional support (I'm anal I know )
The front and sides 12mm (1/2") starphire glass
The back 15mm (19/32") regular glass
The bottom 19mm (3/4") regular glass
Eurobracing (no center brace)
All glass ground and polished
Now all I have to do is wait for six weeks during which time I need to round up six large guys and a refridgerator dolly. :lol:
It's all coming together.
Here's what I ordered from Aquarium Obsessed.
60Lx30Dx24H with single external overflow 48" x 12" x 6" on the back with six 1-1/2" bulkheads and 6 triangular gussets under bottom glass for additional support (I'm anal I know
)The front and sides 12mm (1/2") starphire glass
The back 15mm (19/32") regular glass
The bottom 19mm (3/4") regular glass
Eurobracing (no center brace)
All glass ground and polished
Now all I have to do is wait for six weeks during which time I need to round up six large guys and a refridgerator dolly. :lol:
It's all coming together.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Thanks wmilas. The ATI is a 60" 10x80. I think its 2x4bulbs + 2 bulbs. They don't do a 12 bulb fixture and Sfiligoi doesn't do a 60". Did you look at ATI when you did your evaluation? AO said they would give me a good discount on the Sfgiloi fixtures even though I didn't order with the tank. The ATI are a little less expensive.
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Great move on the Starphire front. It will be worth the extra money with the clarity it gives.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
...and the sides.
It was a no brainer.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Drew
I think I'm pretty much sold on the RKE but want you to be the guinea pig.
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