jynxtrix's Forcibly Propogated Haddoni Anemone
- Thread starter jynxtrix
- Start date
Rinsed in tank water and dipped in seachem reef dip coral disinfectant and then VERY lightly rinsed in tank water again. I was a little nervous about the seachem stuff, as I actually just happened to have it laying around from a bunch of stuff that I picked up from some one who was tearing down their tank. Didn't kill them though.
As far as the mouth, the larger one has a fully formed (And very hungry mouth, we're talking like little shop of horrors, will eat EVERY DAY if I feed it kind of mouth), The little one, not so much. He has a mouth, but because he squirmed mid cut, it came out kind of small. He has enough to eat with, but it isn't anywhere near as well developed as the other ones is. He is eating small slivers of silverside at the moment. I also just started using "instant ocean reef accelerator" in my tank today. Maybe it will have some effect. Does anyone know if there is anything more nutritious for an anemone? Silver side seems like it might not quite cut it, but oh well, so far so good with it. Also, I have some questions about some live rock that I've been curing. which forum would be the correct one for that subject?
As far as the mouth, the larger one has a fully formed (And very hungry mouth, we're talking like little shop of horrors, will eat EVERY DAY if I feed it kind of mouth), The little one, not so much. He has a mouth, but because he squirmed mid cut, it came out kind of small. He has enough to eat with, but it isn't anywhere near as well developed as the other ones is. He is eating small slivers of silverside at the moment. I also just started using "instant ocean reef accelerator" in my tank today. Maybe it will have some effect. Does anyone know if there is anything more nutritious for an anemone? Silver side seems like it might not quite cut it, but oh well, so far so good with it. Also, I have some questions about some live rock that I've been curing. which forum would be the correct one for that subject?
anemoneguy
Member
I dip fresh shrimp or silversides in selcon.
davocean
Active member
Same here, lost 3 healthy LTA's after one feeding.
Done w/ them, too many safer options.
BonsaiNut
Premium Member
I think this product is mostly iodine (?) I know that many fraggers use iodine as a dip with anemone-like creatures (mushrooms, etc). I myself have never used it so I am interested in seeing the results from people who have.
As far as silversides go, I tend to stay away from them as well as raw shrimp due to food safety issues. I am convinced that I have killed anemones by feeding them "bad food" - and shrimp and silversides seem to go bad more frequently than other food types (for me).
With the smaller guy you don't have to feed big food chunks. You can try creating a mash from blending mysis shrimp or other frozen foods, and then add some supplements (I use Selcon, personally). You can hand feed with an eyedropper by squirting some food GENTLY directly into the mouth.
The little guy has me worried. You are basically in a race against time. Until it heals its mouth (and actinopharynx and coelenteron) it doesn't have the ability to intake and digest supplemental foods. It is living mostly off of its body tissues, zooxanthellae, and possibly dissolved organics in your tank water. If you decide to hand feed him, make sure that he has a complete digestive system before you do - otherwise the food matter may not be digested and may just get caught up in body tissue and rot, or may otherwise irritate the anemone or disrupt the healing.
aandfsoccr04
Active member
update?
velvetelvis
Active member
+3 I had an otherwise healthy-seeming BTA that went rapidly downhill after being fed silversides, and died soon afterwards.
Wow Jyxn... great thread! Keep us posted... and kudos for you for taking a risk! (We wouldn't be anywhere as a race if we never took risks. 
) As for the silverside comments... I'm glad I read this thread! That's the last time I buy silversides, time to look for an alternative. Thanks for the info!
) As for the silverside comments... I'm glad I read this thread! That's the last time I buy silversides, time to look for an alternative. Thanks for the info!
doctorgori
New member
Dang...I just fed my anemone a silverside...
To the OP ....I'm not on either side of this issue, but if pressed and if I were a betting man I might even side with your opponents...
But I do admire you for going against conventional wisdom, and comming in here just to share a unpopular POV and subjecting yourself to potential flames
...but then again, you had to be around back in the days before these reef sites were popular....
if you think the "name dropping" is and "expertise by reference" is bad now, or the gang up/pile ons are bad, then go check out the old alt.rec.aquaria newsgroups....some of the "cliques" and name dropper experts are still around from back in the day...the flame wars were out right brutal
...not saying that is what anyone here is doing the "name dropping thing", or piling on...but since you are hinting at it, just thought I'd offer you some perspective that it isn't something new
It seems to me that this is hardly even going against conventional wisdom, given that this type of propagation has already been done so successfully with such similar animals. I don't know that I'd try it myself but this thread is fascinating and I'll follow along. Looks promising so far and I admire jynxtrix's guts.
BonsaiNut
Premium Member
The whole point of point of contention on this (and related threads) is that just because you can frag some animals, does NOT mean you can frag all animals. The conventional wisdom is that trying to cut any clown anemone other than E. quadricolor or H. magnifica (anemones that reproduce asexually in the wild) will yield far fewer anemones than you start with. People have tried to frag S. haddoni before. The success rate is far lower than 50%. Of all other clown anemones that use sexual reproduction as their primary means of reproduction in the wild - the success rate is ZERO. Many have tried, ALL have failed, many anemones have died. That's the point.
As far as the two pieces of anemone that are being discussed in this thread go, I hope at least one piece survives...
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Do we know roughly how many have tried? Is the success rate zero, or less than 50%? How do we know that everyone who has tried has failed? Define failure and success. Is one piece surviving failure? I wouldn't call that failure, exactly.
S. gigantea is known to reproduce asexually in the wild according to the Reef Aquarium Volume II. S. Tapetum can be sliced and diced. No one is saying you should be able to frag all animals, people are saying you might be able to frag animals in the same genus.
I understand that people feel strongly about this, but many, many more anemones have died from being shipped around the world in plastic bags for people to keep in aquariums than from being cut in half.
S. gigantea is known to reproduce asexually in the wild according to the Reef Aquarium Volume II. S. Tapetum can be sliced and diced. No one is saying you should be able to frag all animals, people are saying you might be able to frag animals in the same genus.
I understand that people feel strongly about this, but many, many more anemones have died from being shipped around the world in plastic bags for people to keep in aquariums than from being cut in half.
It's also interesting that Dr. Fautin in her statement says that what we think of as one species may in fact be multiple species when it comes to anemones that are known to reproduce asexually, but never seems to consider that the same could possibly be true for anemones that are not as commonly known to do so. It almost seems like there are a heck of a lot of things we don't know about anemones!
elegance coral
They call me EC
There is evidence to suggest that there may be two different species of magnifica and quadricolor. There are two different types, or forms, of quadricolor and magnifica. There's a larger, solitary form that is not known to reproduce asexually, and a smaller colonial form that regularly reproduces asexually. More research is needed, but due to these differences within the same species, we have cause to question the classification of these animals as it stands today. We have no evidence to suggest that any of the other 8 clownfish hosting anemones may represent more than 8 species.
I agree that there is a huge amount yet to learn about these animals. If we could do away with all the misinformation and stick with known facts, we could build on those facts, and it would become easier to move forward with our understanding. As it is now, all we have is confusion in the hobby. Thanks to some very misleading, and self promoting statements, made by respected members of the hobby, many people still believe that fragmentation is a viable means of propagation in these 8 species. Despite the overwhelming body of evidence to the contrary. Those respected members of the hobby are no longer active, and a growing number of people are coming to the realization that this doesn't work, so I'm hopeful that things will turn around. Some day, we'll put this nasty chapter of the hobby behind us, and move on to something more productive, like sexual reproduction in these animals.
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Gotcha. I would love to read more about this if you could link me to any info.
BonsaiNut
Premium Member
All good questions. Of the clown anemones that use sexual reproduction as their primary reproduction method - the only species that have any record of being "fragged" and having had at least one half survive for one year afterwards are:
S. haddoni
S. mertensii
Note that the success examples are very rare. S. haddoni is probably lower than 10% - in that of people who frag S. haddoni fewer than 10% have even one half survive. Of S. mertensii, there is only ONE record of one half of an anemone surviving... and that half dwindled and died after about a year(?) even when the adult had thrived in the system for several years prior.
Of the following species, there is not a SINGLE record of EITHER half surviving a "frag". In other words, in every case (that we are aware of) where someone cut one of the following anemones in half, both halves died:
S. gigantea
C. adhaesivum
M. doreensis
H. crispa
H. malu
H. aurora
Additionally, if you cut ANY of the above clown anemones into more than two pieces, there is not a single record of success. I can't give you specific numbers... but zero means zero on Reef Central and in my personal experience. I have tried to find records of success - including visiting foreign language reef sites, talking with anemone scientists, etc - and can find none. At the end of the day if people were successfully fragging anemones that they could sell for $200 or more, I would think we would see a few SOMEWHERE
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Toddrtrex
Premium Member
If you are referring to Phil's S. mertensii, both halves ended up dying -- took 18 months (( going off of memory )) for the last half to finally die. According to Phil it looked "off" the whole time.
I can attest to an anemone looking "off" for a year plus -- that is how long my S. haddoni held on after its stress spawn.
I can attest to an anemone looking "off" for a year plus -- that is how long my S. haddoni held on after its stress spawn.
