Lanthanum chloride

[Gary Majchrzak]

I purchased my Pukani from BRS in mid-November. It took about 1 1/2 months to fully cycle, but I've had to continue to treat it with Lanthanum Chloride. It's been 2 1/2 months now and the water still turns milky white when I add the LC, which means it's still creating a lot of phosphate precipitate. If you're just starting this it's going to take more than a couple of weeks to get your phosphates to acceptable levels.

Not necessarily; lanthanum will precipiitat e as lanthanum crabonate when the phospahte is exhausted or very low. The only way to judge the PO4 is to test it.

x2

all through this thread I've posted reminders that misuse of this product can cause more problems than it solves. If water turns milky white you're dosing too much LaCl3. I've seen it firsthand- if improperly dosed into a reef aquarium full of living animals it can ruin your aquarium.
I would consider LaC3 dosing an advanced technique. Before jumping on this bandwagon make sure you have a properly sized and operating skimmer. Get some mechanical filtration in place. This method isn't a "silver bullet" cure for nuisance algae or Cyanobacteria. It is a cost effective method to keep phosphates at a low levels and THAT'S the reason I use it.

 

[AT_Hiker]

If water turns milky white you're dosing too much LaCl3. I've seen it firsthand- if improperly dosed into a reef aquarium full of living animals it can ruin your aquarium.
QUOTE]

I'm not dosing into an aquarium full of living animals. I'm dosing into a container that holds nothing, and will never hold anything else, but dry Pukani rock. I'm trying to get rid of the P04 before I put it into my DT. Once there I'll use GFO to control phosphates. I personally would never dose Lanthanum Chloride into my DT.

That said...I've been dosing two cap fulls of LC at a time into about 50 gals of water, which makes the water milky. If I'm never going to dose my DT do you still consider it dangerous to dose higher levels of LC on dry rock only?
?

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

with no living organisms present an overdose isn't going to kill anything and it shouldn't render your rocks toxic for future use HOWEVER an overdose isn't likely to be as effective at lowering PO4 as a properly administered dosage and you run the risk of precip settling in/on your rock

 

[maroonman]

I,ve been dosing ( mildly ) my Rock..( cooking in a brute can ) for about 5 days now.. I stopped yesterday and did a small water change. Levels have dropped by a full 1.75 ( yes it was @ 2.0 )
I could do a 50% water change before dosing , And My levels would shoot back up in 1 day .
Today is the first day ..And still showing lower levels ( around .25 )
So far , So good.

 

[tmz]

with no living organisms present an overdose isn't going to kill anything and it shouldn't render your rocks toxic for future use HOWEVER an overdose isn't likely to be as effective at lowering PO4 as a properly administered dosage and you run the risk of precip settling in/on your rock

I agree.

Further ,as noted earlier rocks should be rinsed or at least swished around before use after tretments to leave the pecipitant behind. Bushingtehm off with a toothbrush would help too. The clouding is not necessarily lanthanum phospahte as noted earlier. So you might see it for a long time unitl alkainity drops very low. IME , leaching rock from a system loaded with PO4 stopped leaching very much after about 2 weeks of light dosing in a curing bin.

 

[tmz]

The precipitant needs to be filtered out. It can be done in a number of ways. Most common is dripped into a 5 micron filter sock . It is very fine and clogs respiratory apparatuses of many aninmals . I've seen a yellow tang drop dead after swimming through a cloud of it.

 

[S2minute]

so we are going from a 10 micron sock to a 5 now??

 

[Allmost]

what do you guys think of 2 Phos ban reactors inline, with water dripping into the first one, and going through second and dripping out.

I dose the po4 remover inside the first reactor, it mixes in, and settles some there and some on the next reactor.

of course, if i dose more than the amount of water in reactor it would not mix and would come out of the other end, but I dose 0.1 ml at a time to be sure it all percipitates before exiting,

thoughts ?

 

[ChadRaay86]

Okay, I've been experiencing phosphate issues on my 300 Gallon DT, +/- 375 gallons total volume and went ahead and dosed Brightwell Aquatics Phos-E and have had a fairly positive experience so far. After reading this thread, I'm worried I might be doing something terrible, so I just want to throw my situation out there for a few suggestions from the guys that have been doing it for years

I initially tested for phosphates after my cycle and it read at 1.68 on a hanna checker at the LFS. I then bought a reactor and ran ROWA-Phos (switched out every 1-2 weeks), increased my biopellets and ran my skimmer wet with the biopellet reactor emptying into the skimmer. Additionally, I put in a lot of chaeto and prolifura into my fuge to assist in phosphate reduction.

All of this worked well and my phosphates tested out at .68 on the same tester a few days later. One reason for the big drop could be that I had recently fed (I know I'm an idiot) the tank when I collected my first water sample.

At .68, I asked the LFS (which is very well respected and reliable) if there was anything else I could do to ease the suffering of my Hammer corals They mentioned that people had been saying good things about Phos-E. Being pretty desperate at this point I went ahead and got the Phos-E and dosed it at 5ML per 20 gallons for 240 gallons to give myself some wiggle room. The total size of the dose into my sump was 70ML.

My test the next day was .16

I dosed again that day and didn't test...

A day or two after this dose it read at .21, so the LFS had me switch out my ROWA-Phos

Today it read at .22 (with the new ROWA-phos), so I went ahead and bought more and dosed at the same dosage as before (70ML). I'm at work right now and worried what catastrophe I might encounter at home. Should my disaster be averted, I'm looking for the next step.

I'm pretty sure I'm just experiencing continued leeching of phosphates out of the rock and sand, which would explain my testing staying around .20

Where do I go from here? I have this big bottle of Phos-E and will likely continue to dose (albeit a smaller dose) until my phosphate readings are in check unless there's a better way?

 

[tmz]

Phos E is lantanum chloride . It's dilute so about 40% as strong as Seaklear as I recall . and about 8 times more expensive for the bottle and label. If the water wasn't cloudy after dosing ,your animals may be ok this time I'd drip and pre filter and dose going froward.

That phospahte level .68 to 1.68 is very high ;it will probably exhuast RWA-Phos in a day or two making that option costly vs a lanthanum drip or regenerating gfo. The rocks and substrate once exposed to high levels like that may leach PO4 back for a month or more.

 

[ChadRaay86]

Phos E is lantanum chloride . It's dilute so about 40% as strong as Seaklear as I recall . and about 8 times more expensive for the bottle and label. If the water wasn't cloudy after dosing ,your animals may be ok this time I'd drip and pre filter and dose going froward.

That phospahte level .68 to 1.68 is very high ;it will probably exhuast RWA-Phos in a day or two making that option costly vs a lanthanum drip or regenerating gfo. The rocks and substrate once exposed to high levels like that may leach PO4 back for a month or more.

The water clouded for a minute in my sump, but I might have lucked out with my larger water volume. I had been doing it in the first part of my sump (before the skimmer and after the socks), but I'll definitely grab some 10 micron socks for the future. Would you recommend continued doses over the next month at a much lower dosage? I was thinking that may be the way to go... Plus that ROWA-Phos is nasty expensive

 

[ChadRaay86]

Thanks BTW, I really appreciate your help!

 

[ChadRaay86]

Okay, I've been experiencing phosphate issues on my 300 Gallon DT, +/- 375 gallons total volume and went ahead and dosed Brightwell Aquatics Phos-E and have had a fairly positive experience so far. After reading this thread, I'm worried I might be doing something terrible, so I just want to throw my situation out there for a few suggestions from the guys that have been doing it for years

I initially tested for phosphates after my cycle and it read at 1.68 on a hanna checker at the LFS. I then bought a reactor and ran ROWA-Phos (switched out every 1-2 weeks), increased my biopellets and ran my skimmer wet with the biopellet reactor emptying into the skimmer. Additionally, I put in a lot of chaeto and prolifura into my fuge to assist in phosphate reduction.

All of this worked well and my phosphates tested out at .68 on the same tester a few days later. One reason for the big drop could be that I had recently fed (I know I'm an idiot) the tank when I collected my first water sample.

At .68, I asked the LFS (which is very well respected and reliable) if there was anything else I could do to ease the suffering of my Hammer corals They mentioned that people had been saying good things about Phos-E. Being pretty desperate at this point I went ahead and got the Phos-E and dosed it at 5ML per 20 gallons for 240 gallons to give myself some wiggle room. The total size of the dose into my sump was 70ML.

My test the next day was .16

I dosed again that day and didn't test...

A day or two after this dose it read at .21, so the LFS had me switch out my ROWA-Phos

Today it read at .22 (with the new ROWA-phos), so I went ahead and bought more and dosed at the same dosage as before (70ML). I'm at work right now and worried what catastrophe I might encounter at home. Should my disaster be averted, I'm looking for the next step.

I'm pretty sure I'm just experiencing continued leeching of phosphates out of the rock and sand, which would explain my testing staying around .20

Where do I go from here? I have this big bottle of Phos-E and will likely continue to dose (albeit a smaller dose) until my phosphate readings are in check unless there's a better way?

UPDATE:

I've continued dosing daily with Phos-E (around 70-80ml) and it has brought my levels down considerably. I now drip into a sock and run my skimmer wet to assist in getting all the junk out of the water. My levels now read at <.03 about 8-10 hours after I dose and at .11-.13 24 hours after I dose, so levels have come down .07 and will hopefully continue to drop...

Another issue I have is my calcium levels are off the charts (640PPM!!!), I'm not dosing calcium (because of the high levels) and am dosing alk to keep my alk levels at 3.8 meql steady. Is this because of the Lanthanum Chrloride? I'm doing a 10 percent water change this morning, but I'm not sure how bad having my calcium levels this out of wack is... Maybe I should put a huge piece or two of SPS in there to suck the calc out?

Thanks for the help again!!!

 

[tmz]

I've done it without any trouble in the past. It's better to run th lanthanum first though as Gary suggests ,imo.

 

[ChadRaay86]

I've done it without any trouble in the past. It's better to run th lanthanum first though as Gary suggests ,imo.

Before I had a phosphate issue (or at least before I tested for it) I put a scroll coral in there and it has been happy for the most part. I agree with you though, I think my phosphates will clear up in the next couple of weeks and I'll be money from there on out. I'm also installing a couple of wavemakers that might or might not kick up any phosphate on my rock and sandbed...

I'll wait on throwing any more coral in there, but I might put a few more fish to kick up my nitrates a bit and make my biopellets more effective at removing phosphate (at least thats what I tell myself)

 

[tommyz44]

Well i figure its been a while so i thought i would share my experience with LaCl. I started this about 6 months ago. ABout that same time i upgraded from a 30 to a 55 and plumbed in a nother 20 tank to the system. Most of my Po4 i now know is due to HEAVY leaching from my BRS rocks. Anyway the way i have mine set up is a DIY doser. I run about 1ml with 1 gallon DI. I have the tube run right into the back of the overflow and into a 5 micron sock in the sump. I went from .3 consistently even with GFO to about 0.0-0.4. Much of the hair algae melted away (also with scrubbing) but for a while much of it turned white and died off. I feel the remaining is probably the rock leaching just a tad bit still. Anyway i found this to be a big success and now i run GFO now that it is much more undercontroll. Would have cost me a small fortune if i stayed with GFO only. I tend to maybe a day or 2 a week dose as maintanance if i see it above .05. During this I never had any issues with my squamosa or crosea clams. So thanks Gary for this thread you helped me save a ton of coral. And any first timers thinking about this. Don't just do it, read this thread from start to finish. Its a long read but totally worth it.

 

[Dustin1300]

I've been using LaCl now on 300 gallons of system for about 6 months now and just dose from time to time to minimize GFO usage and it's saved me TONS. I posted a few weeks back when designing my plumbing for my 600 and after getting everyone's thoughts, have decided that LaCl dosing will not be before my skimmer, but rather after the skimmer.

That being said, below is a picture after I wrapped up most of my plumbing last week and plan to dose LaCl to the pipe on the output of the skimmer. I'll have 2,000-2,500GPH flowing through the skimmer and curious on opinions on whether the LaCl will settle down into the skimmer with that much flow? Should I continue with this method or tee into the 2" pipe and drip there?

Building the following acrylic tray to filter the water with 3 X 10 micron socks. Building a tray so it can sit in existing sump I've built!:

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

thanks for the kind words, tommyz

thanks for the kind words, tommyz

Dustin... worst case scenario... dripping directly into the skimmer results in you'll eventually need to scrub the inside of the skimmer.
Dripping into mechanical filtration BEFORE hitting the skimmer will minimize precip inside that nice skimmer.

Regarding that skimmer- who made it? How big is it? Looks nice.

 

[Dustin1300]

Dustin... worst case scenario... dripping directly into the skimmer results in you'll eventually need to scrub the inside of the skimmer.
Dripping into mechanical filtration BEFORE hitting the skimmer will minimize precip inside that nice skimmer.

Regarding that skimmer- who made it? How big is it? Looks nice.

It'll drip into the output side so with the turbulence of the water would not expect that the precipitate will settle out.

As far as the skimmer, it's a skimmer built by Aquarium Engineering (Bill Wann). Body is 12" diameter and is just shy of 6 feet tall, has ReeFlo Dart Gold, and air injection pump. Hoping it does a really good job of skimming once everything is in action.

 

[Awibrandy]

:reading::reading::reading::reading:WOW is all I can say at the moment! I finally made it to the end,:eek2:

Thank you all who have contributed to this thread especially to the OP!