12.2 DKH is high esp if u have low nutrients
Learning/rebuilding from my epic fail
- Thread starter reefmutt
- Start date
12.2 DKH is high esp if u have low nutrients
renevilleneuve
New member
So many Wednesdays have passed. Hmmm.
reefmutt
Active member
Finally an update! 
Finally an update!
Well... It's been a while. I had to take a little step back from the tank when I got back from Florida.. It was either a step back or a mad flurry of desperate changes that probably would have led to a new thread called 'learning/rebuilding from my epic fail.... Again'
So, background..
When I returned from Florida- my mom having fed the tank once a day, instead of my two times (at least) per day- nutrients had bottomed out once again.
This means n under 1 ppm and p around.02..
These number sound pretty darn good, eh?? Well, not for me. Those numbers mean death for sps in my tank- I lost several pieces while I was away and the week of my return, while I began feeding more to bring up n and p.
After my return, Matt was asking me about K. I have yet to get my hands on a salifert K test kit. The Elos pro kit is terrible, I find.
I did two important things when I got back to my cyano filled reef with skeletal sps corals: I fed a lot, turned down the flow on my AIO pellet reactor and began dosing small amount of Fauna Marin Color Elements. I started the color elements because of the suspicion of low K... And then I tested often as my n and p began to climb and my corals started to look better and better. At a certain point n was at about 2ppm and p at .12. Then n stopped going up but p climbed to .18- this was over the course of about 6 weeks. I did nothing to control these numbers until n started to drop and p kept going up.
At this point I began dosing cano3. This made my corals a bit more happy, as probably did the color elements.
Now, for the past 3 weeks or so, I have turned up the flow on the AIO reactor and begun adding cano3 daily to keep n up.
I have watched my p drop from .2 at its highest back down to .12 while I have kept n constant at around 3 ppm by dosing cano3. With the reactor turned slightly up, I plan to get p back down to around .04-.06 and keep n around 3-5 ppm.
So nutrients have been much more stable, lately and I have been dosing color elements and the corals are looking waaaaay better.
During this time, I introduced a sick fish and basically lost all of my fish..
I'll list them and then we won't talk about them because it really... Really sucks and I tried everything and I lost them anyways..
4 bellus angels
Potters angel
Yellow tang
2 geometric pixy hawkish
2 spot goby
Potters wrasse
Pyramid butterfly
Lawn mower blenny
2 blue eye cardinals
I think I am forgetting something..
Anyways it sucked HARD..
I still have 10 blue eye cardinals, a purple tang and a leopard wrasse. They are all clean except for one more Cardinal which I think will probably make it. I'll wait several months before attempting to add more fish...
I still have a spot or two or both red and green cyano but I find that as n goes up and p comes down, they are diminishing. The bryopsis, however is going pretty strong. I am manually removing it and in a month or two when things seem very stable, I will try a magnesium overdose to try to knock it back. I don't want to try it now since I'm only just starting to see happy corals again..
Ok! Now for some photos
I'll start by posting for long lost biggles. For some reason, Andrew, my little rr red dragon has been my single most resistant coral. It has grow thoughout all the turmoil in my tank..
I'll post this novel and then post a few shots..
Finally an update!
Well... It's been a while. I had to take a little step back from the tank when I got back from Florida.. It was either a step back or a mad flurry of desperate changes that probably would have led to a new thread called 'learning/rebuilding from my epic fail.... Again'
So, background..
When I returned from Florida- my mom having fed the tank once a day, instead of my two times (at least) per day- nutrients had bottomed out once again.
This means n under 1 ppm and p around.02..
These number sound pretty darn good, eh?? Well, not for me. Those numbers mean death for sps in my tank- I lost several pieces while I was away and the week of my return, while I began feeding more to bring up n and p.
After my return, Matt was asking me about K. I have yet to get my hands on a salifert K test kit. The Elos pro kit is terrible, I find.
I did two important things when I got back to my cyano filled reef with skeletal sps corals: I fed a lot, turned down the flow on my AIO pellet reactor and began dosing small amount of Fauna Marin Color Elements. I started the color elements because of the suspicion of low K... And then I tested often as my n and p began to climb and my corals started to look better and better. At a certain point n was at about 2ppm and p at .12. Then n stopped going up but p climbed to .18- this was over the course of about 6 weeks. I did nothing to control these numbers until n started to drop and p kept going up.
At this point I began dosing cano3. This made my corals a bit more happy, as probably did the color elements.
Now, for the past 3 weeks or so, I have turned up the flow on the AIO reactor and begun adding cano3 daily to keep n up.
I have watched my p drop from .2 at its highest back down to .12 while I have kept n constant at around 3 ppm by dosing cano3. With the reactor turned slightly up, I plan to get p back down to around .04-.06 and keep n around 3-5 ppm.
So nutrients have been much more stable, lately and I have been dosing color elements and the corals are looking waaaaay better.
During this time, I introduced a sick fish and basically lost all of my fish..
I'll list them and then we won't talk about them because it really... Really sucks and I tried everything and I lost them anyways..
4 bellus angels
Potters angel
Yellow tang
2 geometric pixy hawkish
2 spot goby
Potters wrasse
Pyramid butterfly
Lawn mower blenny
2 blue eye cardinals
I think I am forgetting something..
Anyways it sucked HARD..
I still have 10 blue eye cardinals, a purple tang and a leopard wrasse. They are all clean except for one more Cardinal which I think will probably make it. I'll wait several months before attempting to add more fish...
I still have a spot or two or both red and green cyano but I find that as n goes up and p comes down, they are diminishing. The bryopsis, however is going pretty strong. I am manually removing it and in a month or two when things seem very stable, I will try a magnesium overdose to try to knock it back. I don't want to try it now since I'm only just starting to see happy corals again..
Ok! Now for some photos
I'll start by posting for long lost biggles. For some reason, Andrew, my little rr red dragon has been my single most resistant coral. It has grow thoughout all the turmoil in my tank..
I'll post this novel and then post a few shots..
reefmutt
Active member
Rr red dragon
This is a recent addition- rr x men tenuis. I have no clue how it's supposed to look but here it is:
Here's another coral that weathered the storm well and was the first to start putting out polyps when nutrient came back up: DV kushberry
Here's a rr pink Floyd- unfortunately it's right at the back or the tank so once I cropped the shot, it lost a bit of quality..
This is a recent addition- rr x men tenuis. I have no clue how it's supposed to look but here it is:
Here's another coral that weathered the storm well and was the first to start putting out polyps when nutrient came back up: DV kushberry
Here's a rr pink Floyd- unfortunately it's right at the back or the tank so once I cropped the shot, it lost a bit of quality..
reefmutt
Active member
All my shots are close and cropped because the tank, in general looks like total crap but most of the corals are starting to look alive again so I'm not going to get too worried about the algea, right now..
Couple more..
Ultimate tort, I think.
And this was sold to me as a true Oregon tort... It came from a guy who knew a guy who got the real Oregon tort from a guy....
It's going to have to grow out a bit..
Here's another new addition which may or my not make it- echinata..
Couple more..
Ultimate tort, I think.
And this was sold to me as a true Oregon tort... It came from a guy who knew a guy who got the real Oregon tort from a guy....
It's going to have to grow out a bit..
Here's another new addition which may or my not make it- echinata..
reefmutt
Active member
Oh, forgot to mention.. Just last week I added a dsb in one of my frag tanks, it's only 36x18 but I want to add more sand.. I still believe it's a good system stabilizer.
Few more shots
Ssc developing some color.. I know this little guy isn't out of the woods yet, but we'll see..
An interesting frag of I don't know what.. At the moment it is spreading out and that's it.. It has potential though..
A Fiji frag..
Not sure what this is either but it's gonna be nice. It's from a local reef shop he calls it Northwoods.
And here's a good old purple bonsai..
Few more shots
Ssc developing some color.. I know this little guy isn't out of the woods yet, but we'll see..
An interesting frag of I don't know what.. At the moment it is spreading out and that's it.. It has potential though..
A Fiji frag..
Not sure what this is either but it's gonna be nice. It's from a local reef shop he calls it Northwoods.
And here's a good old purple bonsai..
reef bloke
Member
Hi Matt
Sorry to hear of your troubles, the corals sure look good though.
I personally wouldn't chase too much, when in chemistry funk I always choose a salt with a Dkh of under 10 and just do big consecutive water changes. The solution to pollution is dilution;-}
Sorry to hear of your troubles, the corals sure look good though.
I personally wouldn't chase too much, when in chemistry funk I always choose a salt with a Dkh of under 10 and just do big consecutive water changes. The solution to pollution is dilution;-}
reefmutt
Active member
Thanks for dropping in Reef Bloke. What I'm trying to chase is a level of stability which negates the need for chasing and I think I'm pretty close. It's about smaller and smaller changes until stability is achieved.
When I had a tank (several tanks over the years, actually) which just found its own balance and stability from the beginning, my advice would have been 'don't chase too much, let the tank do its thing' but sometimes tanks don't just find their own stability and balance, sometimes they need to be manipulated until they get stable.
I haven't really had an abundance of nutrient that needed to be diluted, I mostly have had the opposite. There is no question that multiple consecutive water changes can go a long way towards reinvigorating and balancing a system but if the basic husbandry practices are causing the issues, water changes will only temporarily fix the chemistry issues.
Patience and small changes or corrections have worked for me so far on this system...
Here's a couple more shots.. Non sps shots.. Couldn't resist.. This was call golden lepto. Not sure it's actually lepto, but it's cool.
Here's my arty fartsy shot: sunrise over the tall grass..
Couple more encrusting corals. Chalice:
I don't think this is a chalice.. Not sure what it is..
When I had a tank (several tanks over the years, actually) which just found its own balance and stability from the beginning, my advice would have been 'don't chase too much, let the tank do its thing' but sometimes tanks don't just find their own stability and balance, sometimes they need to be manipulated until they get stable.
I haven't really had an abundance of nutrient that needed to be diluted, I mostly have had the opposite. There is no question that multiple consecutive water changes can go a long way towards reinvigorating and balancing a system but if the basic husbandry practices are causing the issues, water changes will only temporarily fix the chemistry issues.
Patience and small changes or corrections have worked for me so far on this system...
Here's a couple more shots.. Non sps shots.. Couldn't resist.. This was call golden lepto. Not sure it's actually lepto, but it's cool.
Here's my arty fartsy shot: sunrise over the tall grass..
Couple more encrusting corals. Chalice:
I don't think this is a chalice.. Not sure what it is..
renevilleneuve
New member
Matt you have to get me some of those"not sure what it is but it is great". The preceding one looks like nipple heaven. Want one too.
reeflover62
New member
Nice shots and corals Matt . Arty sunrise is awesome:beer:
teebone110
Member
Looks like your corals are happy, stay at it and all should come around.
Sorry to read about your fish, I know how much it sucks.
Sorry to read about your fish, I know how much it sucks.
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
Matt! I'm so happy to hear from you! It pains me to hear about the bad things that have happened to you lately, but I'm so very happy that you are hanging in there. Hopefully soon you will reach the stability point and the system will hold on its own.
I'm glad you still have the Leopard wrasse, its one of my favorite fish and a handy fish to have in the war against pests.
FWIW, the All-in-one pellets have been pretty bulletproof in my reef, I have good tumbling but not too vigorous so as to prematurely demolish the pellets. In practical terms, if the pellets are moving so fast they almost blur, slow them down. My best results have been with good flow through the unit and the outlet near the skimmer inlet rather than directly connected. I had a couple of frags not make it when I went really light on the feeding for a few days because I was very busy. I need to make sure to keep feeding twice a day, just like you found.
As for the Bryopsis, I wasn't keeping close tabs on it and it bloomed a bit here and there, so you're not alone. I think you may want to try a foxface rabbitfish or dolabella sea slug. I've had my Magnesium elevated over 1800 for months and it still grows, so I can't vouch for that method's effectiveness. It's a pain to hand garden the stuff out.
The pics you posted of the corals look pretty good, especially the red dragon. I've had three or four frags of that coral and they do well for a while then suddenly waste away, so I'm impressed yours has been such a trooper! You take really nice pics, i wish I had a real camera to do that too. Keep on keeping on!
I'm glad you still have the Leopard wrasse, its one of my favorite fish and a handy fish to have in the war against pests.
FWIW, the All-in-one pellets have been pretty bulletproof in my reef, I have good tumbling but not too vigorous so as to prematurely demolish the pellets. In practical terms, if the pellets are moving so fast they almost blur, slow them down. My best results have been with good flow through the unit and the outlet near the skimmer inlet rather than directly connected. I had a couple of frags not make it when I went really light on the feeding for a few days because I was very busy. I need to make sure to keep feeding twice a day, just like you found.
As for the Bryopsis, I wasn't keeping close tabs on it and it bloomed a bit here and there, so you're not alone. I think you may want to try a foxface rabbitfish or dolabella sea slug. I've had my Magnesium elevated over 1800 for months and it still grows, so I can't vouch for that method's effectiveness. It's a pain to hand garden the stuff out.
The pics you posted of the corals look pretty good, especially the red dragon. I've had three or four frags of that coral and they do well for a while then suddenly waste away, so I'm impressed yours has been such a trooper! You take really nice pics, i wish I had a real camera to do that too. Keep on keeping on!
sahin
Ultimate Reefer
Despite the setups, the Acros looks VERY healthy and colourful! My buddy with a very large tank has had issues with Acros dying for nearly a year since he started the tank. Only very recently have things settled down.
As Reefbloke says; dont chase numbers too much. Get a decent salt a keep up the water changes.
Colours on the Acros look VERY good and that is certainly a very good sign. Keep up the good work. :beer:
As Reefbloke says; dont chase numbers too much. Get a decent salt a keep up the water changes.
Colours on the Acros look VERY good and that is certainly a very good sign. Keep up the good work. :beer:
Mark
Premium Member
Great thread. I'm sorry about your ups and downs as of late. I enjoyed your take on reefkeeping history, the industrial age versus modern age. But honestly, myself and many veteran reefkeepers that lived through the industrial age seem to be going back to it in some areas.
Advancements in lighting and skimming are no doubt worth noting. But when it comes to nutrient control, go back to the old-school man! Ditch the additives and the pellets. I've tinkered with vodka, biopellets, gfo, zeo. It was a tireless battle of the yo yo between nitrates, phosphates, cyano, coral lightening. Eventually I stopped battling my tank and retired back to macroalgae and some skimming. Life got easier again. My phosphates and nitrates don't look pretty in test kits, but the corals looked great and I like looking at corals more than test kits anyway. I say this humbly and please don't take offense. Your old tank was awesome for a reason.
I believe JB NY would agree with me. He's running a pretty sweet chaeto reactor, a new spin on and old methodology.
Advancements in lighting and skimming are no doubt worth noting. But when it comes to nutrient control, go back to the old-school man!
Ditch the additives and the pellets. I've tinkered with vodka, biopellets, gfo, zeo. It was a tireless battle of the yo yo between nitrates, phosphates, cyano, coral lightening. Eventually I stopped battling my tank and retired back to macroalgae and some skimming. Life got easier again. My phosphates and nitrates don't look pretty in test kits, but the corals looked great and I like looking at corals more than test kits anyway. I say this humbly and please don't take offense. Your old tank was awesome for a reason.I believe JB NY would agree with me. He's running a pretty sweet chaeto reactor, a new spin on and old methodology.
Mark
Premium Member
I'm sure Joe will chime in, but the reactor in question is call ARID. More details here: https://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/pax-bellum-llc/
I hope my post didn't sound discouraging. In order to move the hobby forward, there will always be a need to experiment. And I'm glad people do
. It keeps things interesting. Anyway, good to see some veteran reef keepers around. Subscribed to your thread and look forward to seeing your reef grow as nice as your old one.
