LED's with respect to color of Sps corals

[luismu]

Thanks Joe, I did see some of that. But I also see pictures of sol users where their orange caps are orange, and video of sol tanks that have great color. I'm hoping one of these sol users might respond with something helpful, that I have not quite figured out yet; hoping.

 

[Big E]

Your easiest option is to buy a two pair of T5 retro fit 60" setups............4 bulbs in all. If you can find these types already assembled they are a bit nicer.

http://www.aquacave.com/Ready-Fit-60-Two-Lamp-T5Retro-Kit-by-Sunlight-Supply-P2358.aspx

Turn your whites down so they are at least 30% of the blues.......below 20% is better. but most won't like the look as too blue.

Use the T5s to add the white back with two Coral+ bulbs. These will also give you Some 400-420nm which the Sols don't have. You can also do one antinic bulb if you want more of the 420. Round it out with a Blue+.

The T5's will cover the spectrums your missing, as well as fill in gaps and shadows & give the tank a much brighter overall look.

Turning the whites down on your Sols will eliminate the excessive par not needed especially within a tight range of the diodes that create hot spots.

Run the T5's about 8-10 hours and run the LEDs about 6.

That should get you in the ballpark for staters and then you can adjust from there to fine tune things for ambience, and coral color.

With this configuration you can sell one of your Sols also.

 

[Big E]

The other thing you can try is to go with a couple of Build my LED strips that have some 400-420.

That is more of a gamble, but it will keep you in all LED. They can help you with how best to supplement your Sols.

I know T5 Supplementation works well, I haven't worked with the LED strips that you can configure on your own or through a company like Build my LED.

Keep in mind some of the things mentioned in that article I just posted about quality diodes and some of the issues with the 400-420 diodes.

 

[luismu]

One thing I think I’m going to try before resorting to T5’s is to replace the 40 degree lenses with 70’s. I have already moved the original lenses around to a 40, 70, 40, 70 pattern. That definitely is better than the way they came. But I have wanted to try the 70, 70, 70, 70 for some time now and maybe this is the time. I know it won’t fix the color of some of the corals, but I might just replace the dull corrals with something that will work with this lighting.
Also, I have my whites turned up just because I like the color a little bit more. Are the corrals going to get more from the blue, and royal blue than the white, or is it all one and the same to them?
Thanks for the feedback Guys.
Luis

 

[Reefvet]

I just bought 5 frags from my LFS that were under Sols. All ORAs, Red planet, Green planet, Blue bottle brush, Purple stylo, Green acro and a green birdsnest.

Under my Kessil A350W they all have increased in color within a couple of days.

I have a number of other SPS, LPS and Palys growing in the same tank and I wanted a little more coverage to balance the directional light of the A350. I thought about T5 but decided to add a Kessil A150 Ocean Blue instead. It replicates a 15K. I put in at the front of the tank pointing back.

No shadows, great growth and color. I'm glad I didn't go T5.

 

[Reefvet]

Just saw this article..............I'd like to hear some comments, ect.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2014/4/lighting

1) DIY is a crap shoot.

2) Just the BIN factor alone means you want a light built by someone who didn't have to buy a ton of LEDs, test them and them assemble a matrix.

3) There are probably more than a few manufacturers buying cheap and making a killing.

4) A company that has QC from manufacture to assembly of a matrix has a huge advantage.

5) LED technology is still in it's infancy.

6) You can understand why Ecotech and AI merged. It was in order to survive the inevitable cheap Chinese onslaught.

 

[meshwheel]

Article was a few guys learning what the larger companies have already done/are doing. I still feel the led's work better spread the entire length of the unit. 90 degree lenses on mine, no disco effect at all.
Reefvet is exactly correct. And while the two merged, Reefbreeders moves on to a larger warehouse..........

 

[TropTrea]

One thing I think I'm going to try before resorting to T5's is to replace the 40 degree lenses with 70's. I have already moved the original lenses around to a 40, 70, 40, 70 pattern. That definitely is better than the way they came. But I have wanted to try the 70, 70, 70, 70 for some time now and maybe this is the time. I know it won't fix the color of some of the corals, but I might just replace the dull corrals with something that will work with this lighting.
Also, I have my whites turned up just because I like the color a little bit more. Are the corrals going to get more from the blue, and royal blue than the white, or is it all one and the same to them?
Thanks for the feedback Guys.
Luis

I had gone from 40 degree to 70 degree and finally to no LENs at all. The LED's blend so much more evenly without lenses and drastically reduces if not eliminates the harsh shadows.

The only time I recommend them is when your raising you fixture more than 4" or 5" above the surface of the water, or your tank is more than 24" high. And even then I say more wattage is better than lenses, unless you have excess spill into the room.

 

[luismu]

No lenses, there's a one I hadn't thought of yet. I'll keep that one in mind. Thanks Dennis.

 

[ArmyGreens]

I personally think too many of us focus on growing the zooxanthellia and less on the actual animal. Spectrum is only one part of the equation, water being given another and feeding the animal the other. Good color is not only produced by lighting but the health of the animal as well

 

[TropTrea]

No lenses, there's a one I hadn't thought of yet. I'll keep that one in mind. Thanks Dennis.

Looking back at prior posts I would say this should be an easy move for you. Simply remove the lenses and see if like the results. If you dont like the end result you can also add them back.

On your other earlier question on the importance of white as opposed to blues. The blues especialy those between 420 and 480 nm with an emphasis in the 450 nm range are the most growth promoting wave lengths for 85% of corals. The remainer of the whites are there mainly for your viewing pleasure.

There is one exception and that is the red light between 600 and 660 nm that some corals especially those that grow in very shallow water need. However this is touchy area as far as an excessive amount of light in those wave lenghts will cause many corals to shut down to protect themselves. Also some corals will bleach out readily for an excess in this range. With the last bit being that light especially in the 660 nm to 689 nm range is the a realy boast to the growth of cyan bacteria. In most lighting set ups the "white" or full spectrum LED's will produce enough red light to make the corals happy yet unless you really flood the tank white light it will not be an excess to create the prior mentioned issues. I have had luck using a ratio of roughly 4 watts in the Blue spectrum to 1 watt with neutral white LED's to get a comfortable balance, The use of Cool Whites are not as "white" as neutral whites and will often end up resulting in going with a ratio of 2 to 3 watts of Blue to 1 watt of whites which then requires a higher wattage overall fixture to achieve the same brightness as well the same amount of blue light for the corals.

My general approach to LED's is to provide enough blue light to grow corals then simply add enough neutral whites to simply meet your personal color taste for a total effect. When I'm referring to Blue LED's though I'm looking at not just Royal blues but also True Blues and near UV LED's in combination with the Royal Blues to widen there spectrum out slightly.

 

[that Fish Guy]

Looking back at prior posts I would say this should be an easy move for you. Simply remove the lenses and see if like the results. If you dont like the end result you can also add them back.

On your other earlier question on the importance of white as opposed to blues. The blues especialy those between 420 and 480 nm with an emphasis in the 450 nm range are the most growth promoting wave lengths for 85% of corals. The remainer of the whites are there mainly for your viewing pleasure.

There is one exception and that is the red light between 600 and 660 nm that some corals especially those that grow in very shallow water need. However this is touchy area as far as an excessive amount of light in those wave lenghts will cause many corals to shut down to protect themselves. Also some corals will bleach out readily for an excess in this range. With the last bit being that light especially in the 660 nm to 689 nm range is the a realy boast to the growth of cyan bacteria. In most lighting set ups the "white" or full spectrum LED's will produce enough red light to make the corals happy yet unless you really flood the tank white light it will not be an excess to create the prior mentioned issues. I have had luck using a ratio of roughly 4 watts in the Blue spectrum to 1 watt with neutral white LED's to get a comfortable balance, The use of Cool Whites are not as "white" as neutral whites and will often end up resulting in going with a ratio of 2 to 3 watts of Blue to 1 watt of whites which then requires a higher wattage overall fixture to achieve the same brightness as well the same amount of blue light for the corals.

My general approach to LED's is to provide enough blue light to grow corals then simply add enough neutral whites to simply meet your personal color taste for a total effect. When I'm referring to Blue LED's though I'm looking at not just Royal blues but also True Blues and near UV LED's in combination with the Royal Blues to widen there spectrum out slightly.

I find it funny that now people say Blue Lights are for Growth and White for Viewing.

Not too long ago everyone said that white Light Grew Coral and Blue light was only to make the Corals Colors Pop for your Viewing pleasure.

The exact opposite of what people said in the past.

Still most People Not in the Know use 50/50 since that is what the LFS tells them to use and what they use in the Stores.

They say that most customers have a 4 Bulb T5HO Fixture and use Blue Plus X2 and Aquablue Special X2 by ATI.

At the other end of the Reefing Spectrum the High end Chalice Collectors seem to use only Blue Light and No White.

 

[ReefLedLab]

1) DIY is a crap shoot.

Why? DIY with the well-designed components will simple for every Tom, Dick, and Harry

And what can you say about: http://reefll.com/index.php?route=information/news&news_id=19

2) Just the BIN factor alone means you want a light built by someone who didn't have to buy a ton of LEDs, test them and them assemble a matrix.

If manufacturer of LED fixture will pay enough attention to binning, they can buy necessary bin. But high-efficacy bins are relative pricey, and rare available. So, if you will focused on best bins, you should try to catch them direct from manufacturer of LEDs

3) There are probably more than a few manufacturers buying cheap and making a killing.

This is a niche market. No one manufacturer of LED fixture for marine aquaria can get special price for LEDs, because necessary quantity is too big.

4) A company that has QC from manufacture to assembly of a matrix has a huge advantage.

Agreed. Manufacturer of LED matrix or assemblies should work together with manufacturer of LEDs, this cooperation may be very fruitful, for example: http://reefll.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_63&product_id=58

5) LED technology is still in it's infancy.

Excuse me, but we think - LED technology is mature today. For example. Please remember - Cree has announced their flagship efficacy MK-R LED as first, that can provide efficacy 200lm per watt for commercial product. It was a long time ago - in December 2012. Still now you can't buy such high efficacy LED from Cree in real! LED technology today is near to limits and its subsequent development will be slow. In other words, today's the best efficacy bins will not significantly surpassed in visible future.

 

[ReefLedLab]

Article was a few guys learning what the larger companies have already done/are doing.

Excuse me, but no one companies work as close with their customer, as our company. Our 12up LED assemblies was used by hundreds (near to thousand) of reefkeepers around the world. To be honest, most of them is people from ex-USSR, but partially also from USA, Italy, Israel, etc. Our kits have become a standart de-facto for DIYers in many countries.

I still feel the led's work better spread the entire length of the unit. 90 degree lenses on mine, no disco effect at all.

Please make a simple experiment: look at shadow of pensil on white paper under light of any fixture, that have evenly placement of multi-colored LEDs. You will see multi-colored shadows.

To be honest, some people initially did not see "disco". But this like a "dead pixel" on your screen - until you will not see it first time, it is invisible to you. But if you see it at least once, he starts "scratching" the eyesight.

 

[ReefLedLab]

Spectrum is only one part of the equation, water being given another and feeding the animal the other. Good color is not only produced by lighting but the health of the animal as well

Exactly. We wrote about this in our first article, if you have not read it, I believe you will be interested to know http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/10/aafeature

Also I would like to emphasize - your corals and fishes may be healty and well colored, but you can see them in all its glory only if your fixture has a full spectrum and allows precise control of the spectra.

 

[TropTrea]

Also I would like to emphasize - your corals and fishes may be healty and well colored, but you can see them in all its glory only if your fixture has a full spectrum and allows precise control of the spectra.

this is why I emphasize that no one light combination is a fit all to everyone. Your basically balancing three factor, coral growth, reflected Colors, and florescent colors. Especially with the last two when you gain one your usually loosing out on the other. Now you also have the factor of the individuals choice of corals where some look better under different lights, as well as the individuals color taste.

 

[TropTrea]

Excuse me, but we think - LED technology is mature today. For example. Please remember - Cree has announced their flagship efficacy MK-R LED as first, that can provide efficacy 200lm per watt for commercial product. It was a long time ago - in December 2012. Still now you can't buy such high efficacy LED from Cree in real! LED technology today is near to limits and its subsequent development will be slow. In other words, today's the best efficacy bins will not significantly surpassed in visible future.

I can remember only a few years ago that I happy to find LED's that surpased 70 lumns per watt. Actually there are a lot out there still marketed that are well under that range. Note the MK-R supposedly can get up to 200 lumns per Watt, but at 1.4A and 6 Volts even the best J2 Bin is only around 143 lumns per Watt. In the last year or so they have brought some of the XP series LED's to within 20% of this range or even closer.

Yes LED's have come a long way in the last 10 years and especially in the last 5 years. But there are still some considerable avenues of improvement that can be made and I believe they will be improving. The two areas I see is the reducing the heat to light ratio, and secondly increase the number of available wavelengths especially in the rang below 454nm. Actually Cree does not make anything below 454 available outside the pricey medical market.

Yes the development curve is getting close to its peak but changes will come even though they will be less drastic than what we saw in the last 5 years unless some new breakthrough comes in materials.

 

[zachts]

Excuse me, but no one companies work as close with their customer, as our company. Our 12up LED assemblies was used by hundreds (near to thousand) of reefkeepers around the world. To be honest, most of them is people from ex-USSR, but partially also from USA, Italy, Israel, etc. Our kits have become a standart de-facto for DIYers in many countries.

Please make a simple experiment: look at shadow of pensil on white paper under light of any fixture, that have evenly placement of multi-colored LEDs. You will see multi-colored shadows.

To be honest, some people initially did not see "disco". But this like a "dead pixel" on your screen - until you will not see it first time, it is invisible to you. But if you see it at least once, he starts "scratching" the eyesight.

most all LED arrays create noticable disco to my eyes. Even the top of the line versions, the exceptions, the original gen 1 radion as it used a reflector based optice and scarificed PAR for good blending, and the Pac sun dense matrix arrays, or similar though difusers are needed still)

LEDs are tiny point source lights so, they will always create the potential for "disco" without adequate color blending and difusing within each array.

There are however many ways to skin a cat as they used to say (politically incorrect now but still a good saying )

currently my favorite approach is to use whatever "white" source suits the individual (could be flourecent or heaviliy difused LED arrays, doesn't matter, it is generally a small portion of the lighting power (watts) used) Then the bulk of the lighting power focused with evenly distributed LED clusters using blue and violet chips focused on coral growth spectrums evenly distributed over the thank (3ups with blue, royal blue, and violet for example, but many workable scenarios depending on hanging height etc) You get a uniform blue light focused down onto the tank's inhabitants with minimal light spill and maximum efficiency. The key is to maintain enough over lap to avoid "hot spots" a PAR meter is often needed to understand this with LED optics, the difernce of a few inches horizontal can have a several hundered unit diference on the PAR reading with traditional LED array optics if not carefully placed) If you're so inclined you can model it using distribution graphs from optics but a PAR meter is the best way to fine tune things.

then add only enough "white" source for viewing and color develeopment. (ideally you use the same apporach with led arrays and difusers but this can get costly on smaller tanks or where mounting height is a concern (you need more clusters with lower mounting)

over all the LEDlab clusters are one of the better out there right now, just very costly for any of the builds I've worked on if they were to be the only source of light. Particularly if mounting height is a concern.

Good info ReefLedLab, and much appreciated bringing an informed perspective to the USA hobby led forum discussions :beer:

 

[zachts]

I can remember only a few years ago that I happy to find LED's that surpased 70 lumns per watt. Actually there are a lot out there still marketed that are well under that range. Note the MK-R supposedly can get up to 200 lumns per Watt, but at 1.4A and 6 Volts even the best J2 Bin is only around 143 lumns per Watt. In the last year or so they have brought some of the XP series LED's to within 20% of this range or even closer.

Yes LED's have come a long way in the last 10 years and especially in the last 5 years. But there are still some considerable avenues of improvement that can be made and I believe they will be improving. The two areas I see is the reducing the heat to light ratio, and secondly increase the number of available wavelengths especially in the rang below 454nm. Actually Cree does not make anything below 454 available outside the pricey medical market.

Yes the development curve is getting close to its peak but changes will come even though they will be less drastic than what we saw in the last 5 years unless some new breakthrough comes in materials.

I would also like to chime in here, with the Royal Blue LED tech is starting to plateau but advances in pcb coolling will also increase their efficeancy in the near future (the "sink pad" for example)

the main places LEDs need to improve is in the "colors" or rather in the remote phosphor tech. Where a basic Blue/royalblue/cyan/violet/ array could have a seriese of "reef" specific phosphor blends added to it (user interchangable) to taylor the spectrum to thier needs. (some interanl red, green, amber, etc might still be usefull for fine tuning but the main advance I see coming is the remote phosphor tech for Reef lighting.

The bridgelux vero's employ this type of phosphor tech to make some of the only "lighing" class arrays I'd ever use in my home, (luxeon and cree come close but the spectrum they offer sucks) and also very good for tank lighting when augmented with other colors. (I'd still prefer to use a multi chip, multi-spectrum array under the phosphor but it is not available yet to the DIY'er without fronting a few thousand for the phosphor sheets needed to Taylor the spectrum to our needs, this would build a hell of a lot of reef lights though)

 

[zachts]

The Luxeon Z has now broken ahead with the inclusion of violet leds (tiny form factor and power handling and efficeincy rivaling Semi) only problem is they are darn pricey right now, but that will change soon, and others will catch up.