"Less is More"

bassmjm

New member
Howdy y'all!

So I'm pretty new to the hobby, and by new, I mean I've never had a marine tank. I do have a few years of experience, however, with freshwater tanks and I currently keep a 25 gallon planted tank.

For the past month or so, the saltwater bug has been nibblin' on my brain, and I've been doing a lot of research, reading, etc.. Also, I've been encouraged by a lot of you guys and your tanks and setups, so I've formed a pretty good idea of what I want: a 75 gallon reef. Not too big to maintain, not too small so as to eliminate too many stocking options.

First, however, since this thread is kind of serving as my introduction to the forum, a little about how I feel about saltwater critters. I think the ocean is awesome, and it definitely houses some of the most fascinating and beautiful life on the planet. Moreover, it's in danger (I'll spare you my politics), and reef keeping is a great way to educate people, besides learn more about this ecosystem and experience it firsthand. However, the most fascinating aspect of reef keeping to me is that by starting a reef inside a glass box, you're beginning an ecosystem. With live rock and live sand, you're literally taking a chunk of the ocean and the millions of organisms therein/thereon and giving them an opportunity to cohabitate and (hopefully) thrive. This is unlike freshwater setups in that the ecosystem created is vastly more diverse, and definitely more observable. As such, I'm incredibly fascinated with reef keeping and can't wait to begin!

On to the meaty stuff. The reality is that I'm more or less poor at the moment, and will remain as such until my job picks up or I find another job, possibly in a different state (I'm open to suggestions if any of you need to fill a position... :p). This more or less eliminates reef keeping on a scale of more than a biocube or something similar, since I don't really want to throw an aquarium into a moving truck at some point in the indefinite future. However, since I'm addicted to the hobby already, I need to satisfy that addiction somehow, and planning never hurts, so here's my 75 gallon setup as I've thus far envisioned it:

Two principle inspirations:
1) "A Reef in the Sky"--tank layout is beautifully simple, reserved, and harmonious. Please google/youtube/look it up here if you are unfamiliar with it. Really cool stuff, incredibly beautiful.
2)This video: http://youtu.be/4omAUlzIkQk . Even though it's freshwater, it's a stunning reminder that even though we may be tempted to stock our tanks with as many cool things as possible, beauty sometimes lies in the greatest amounts in simplicity. I'm not particularly fond (and please, no offense to anyone--to each his/her own) of those reef tanks that have a literal wall of live rock with as many corals and fish and tangs and shrimp and snails stuffed in there as possible. I'd rather see a tank with 5-10 prospering species of coral, a harmonious selection of fish (with respect given to tangs and proper stocking levels for other fish), an interesting and balanced hardscape, and an array of fascinating inverts. (If you can't tell, one of my pet peeves already is poor tang husbandry.)

75 gallon tank--either custom with low-iron glass or a Marineland tank
Custom 36" tubular steel stand
Custom sump--20 or 30ish gallons
2x 1500gph overflows from gl*******s.com
2x magdrive9.5
2x SCWD's
10 gallon remote deep sand bed (unlit)
10 gallon macroalgae and 'pod refugium (reverse lighting cycle +2 hours)
LED lighting (Probably Ecoxotic stunner strips)
2x Eheim jager heaters, whatever wattage (100% redundancy)
Reef Octopus skimmer (XS 160 or 200)
Aquarium controller (haven't decided which brand yet)
Calcium reactor

Tank will have a shallow sand bed (2" max) of aragonite, and about 75 pounds of live rock, give or take.

I haven't planned for any in-tank power heads because I want there to be as little clutter as possible. I think power heads and circulation fans are really ugly (however, very useful), and I want to avoid them if at all possible. Instead, I've opted for the use of four loc-line returns on SCWD's--a pair for each SCWD. The returns will be situated at the top corners and both 1/3 points on the back glass. From what I've read, this should give pretty good, variable/chaotic flow, and with the aquascape in my mind, I shouldn't have any dead spots to speak of.

I'll be updating with more details as I figure them out, and according to any responses I get on here.

A few questions for the wise ones:
1) SCWD's? Yes, no? Maybe so? Any personal experiences would be greatly appreciated!
2) What do you guys/gals think of the water movement? Too much overflow? Would two magdrive9.5's be sufficient? If both pumps were in the sump, would that be too much flow through the sump?
3) I'm aiming for a somewhat simple, very stable system, so any thoughts on RDSB's, sump setups, and refugia that would contribute to system stability would also be very much appreciated. I'd rather shell out a few Ben Franklins then come home to a dead tank or a wet floor.

Lastly, I know I'm a total noob, but I like this forum because the people on here seem friendly and engaging, so I look forward to talking with you all! Also, don't be afraid to totally shoot me down; I make mistakes and it's hard to hurt my feelings, but teach me if you point out a mistake. One of my mottos is "Don't criticize; rather, create." :)
 
Stocking list:

I'm aiming for restraint and harmony, and preferably aquacultured specimens (I like ORA a lot). List is not in order.

Fish
1 Yellow Assessor
1 Sunrise Dottyback
1 Orchid Dottyback
1 Laboute's Fairy Wrasse
3 Neon Gobies/Cleaner Wrasses
1 Mated Pair Mandarin Dragonets/Gobies
3-5 Green Chromis
1 Kole tang (maybe)

Sessile Inverts
Corals:
-ORA "Hyacinth" Birdsnest
-ORA Purple shelving Monti
-ORA Green Digitata
-Maybe a blue Acro and one or two other SPS
-Maze coral (platygyra)
-Trumpet/Candycane
-Organ Pipe coral
-Mushroom corals (Discosoma)
-Toadstool leather (maybe, if so, a green polyped ORA)
-Cathedral Coral
-Maybe a Cabbage coral specimen
-A few zoas
Clams:
-ORA Derasa
-Blue Maxima
-Squamosa
-Maybe one or two others
Others:
-Worms (Koko and "duster clusters")
-Maybe a sponge (a purple vase/cup would be nice)
-Maybe a gorgonian (purple sea whip?)

Motile Inverts
-Tuxedo urchins--probably the one resident to which I'm most attracted
-1 or 2 Skunk cleaner shrimp
-2 to 5 Peppermint shrimp
-1 or 2 Fighting conch
-An abalone (another of my favorites)
-Cerith snails
-A couple turbo snails (not trochus)
-Asterea snails
-Several serpent stars, I'm going to try to avoid brittle stars
-Maybe a mated pair of harlequin shrimp after the brittle stars get big enough

Plants/Macroalgae
Refugium:
-Basically as much variety as I can get in there for 'pods and for treats for my herbivores
Display:
Maiden's hair
Mermaid fan
Maybe halameda

I think that's about it. The reason for so many "maybes" is that the ultimate rule is "Can the system sustain this organism for at least a year?" with the closely related second rule being simply aesthetic: "does it look good/healthy/vibrant?"

Any comments, concerns, experiences, or sarcastic remarks? :p
 
Is that a reverse deep sand bed? How does that work?

A remote deep sand bed. Not as risky and not as easily disturbed. In this instance, I'll have some of the overflow water tee off into a 10 gallon aquarium with about 8" of sand in it. This aquarium will then overflow into a 10 gallon refugium, which will then overflow into the pump chamber of the sump.
 
Do not go with three Neon Gobies or a Cleaner Wrasse, IMO. Try to find a PAIR of Neon Gobies, tank raised. Three will form a pair and an outcast that will be harassed until it dies. I believe Cleaner Wrasses should be left in the ocean but I am probably in the minority on this opinion. At a good lfs, watch the neon gobies and find two that hang out together. That will become a mated pair and will constantly interact. Interesting to watch. One of the highlights of my 75g. Low bioload, attractive peaceful lttle fish that clean my bristle tooth tang every evening.

Only downside to the gobies is that they are relatively short lived fish 3-4 years is all you can expect.
 
a few quick obervations:
SCWDs are ancient...i would look at an ocean motion device
3-5 green chromis will quickly become 1-2 as the dominant ones pick off the less dominant.
urchins are notorious for becoming bulldozers and knocking corals over..
 
Hello and welcome to the addiction

as far as your tank plans go, i think "more is too much" in your case. Heres my opinion on a few things

-2x 1500gph overflows is gonna be a HUGE amount of turnover. Yes, it does give you some wiggle room but a single box would be more than enough. I have one on my new 40 breeder build which is WAY overkill but the only reason i got that instead of the 700gph is because it has two drains and im paranoid about snails clogging one of them.

-2x mag 9.5 is gonna suck the water straight out of your sump also, unless of course its huge (the 20 or 30 will be empty)

-Calcium reactor is probably not needed as of yet. They really help out though if you have a full blown reef with a huge calcium turnover. My opinion is play it by ear but leave a manifold slot in your plumbing for one just in case.

-Stunner strips are good for supplemental but not full lighting spectrum. They really make the fluorescents pop in your coral

And trust me, i agree with ya, the fellow reefers on this forum will help you out in every way, shape and form. :D

Happy Reefing Mate!!!
 
regarding stocking the sunrise dotty back is fairly aggressive and might not do well with the wrasses, mandarins and other dottybacks. Do some research on the mandarins. I think most do not consider them beginner fish due to their feeding habits.
 
+1
Mandarins require a well established tank with lots of pods. You can probably do it in 6-12 months, if you you can find one that eats some frozen foods. Two are always a challenge in a 75g as there may not be enough of a pod population for both.
 
NatureNerd,

Good points, I want as few things as possible from the wild, so I'll look for a pair of tank-raised neon gobies. Also, re: mandarins, they will be added very late, earliest at 8 months. Do you think a pair could be sustained in an established 75 gallon with my refugium setup and stocklist? Or would there be too much competition for 'pods with other fish?

betamed,

Understood. The sunrise dottyback gets a "maybe" designation then. :p Any other suggestions (anybody?) for other small, peaceful, reef-friendly fish?

Alysiak00,

Yes, it does seem like overkill, doesn't it? I, too, am paranoid about overflows (I don't even have one yet!) and any potential clogging issues. While this tank may not have as many snails as others, I still feel safer with redundancy. But perhaps just one 1500gph box will do, since it still has two outlet tubes (I've been struggling a lot with this decision). Also, I'm hoping I won't need the calcium reactor (CO2 is a PAIN), so maybe I can get away with kalkwasser dosing or other liquid calcium supplements. Also also, I understand what you're saying about the stunner strips. There are a few people on youtube that have only stunners on 75 or 90 gallon reefs, which is what put the idea in my mind.

I will definitely be using only led lighting, and just now looking, maybe Ecoxotic's panorama modules would be better suited to keeping the clams and the couple of sps in the tank. Maybe 4 of the 12K White/445nm Blue panoramas and then 1 48" 453nm Blue/Magenta stunner?

So then, flow: if I don't want any powerheads in the tank, what would you all recommend? Would one magdrive9.5 work, providing adequate flow in the aquarium without sucking the sump dry? What about a CLS?

Also re: SCWD's, they are ancient, sure, but are they reliable? I'm attracted to the idea of not requiring electricity, even if there's a slight reduction in flow. If they work well, I might prefer it to, say, and Oceans Motions 4-way setup.

Thanks for your comments! Keep 'em coming! :D
 
In the interest of keeping it simple:

Look at a coast-to coast overflow. You need less than 10X the tank volume. That's only ~700 GPH for your 75. Drop some cash on 2X MP40's for current inside the tank. Size the return pump to about the same as your skimmer turn-over. For example, on my 75, I use a Little Giant MD2 to run the skimmer. That pushes ~600 GPH. I run a Pan World 50-P-x-x throttled back to around 600 GPH for the return + 200 GPH to GAC and GFO reactors.

Calcium reactors are anything but simple. Simple is adding Kalk to your top off water until you system demand becomes too high. That will take several months is everything goes as fast as possible... and it won't. Once the demand rises too high, two-part dosing is simple to set-up.

You can easily build LED fixtures, I wouldn't pay retail for one. I built one per the instructions in the DIY forum and it works great.
 
+1 on using kalkwasser, I believe it to be the easiest and least expensive method of keeping SPS's. It of course, has some limitations but it is simple. Don't get discouraged at all the "Don't do this, don't do that's" that you are hearing. It is fun to plan it all out and get a tank established.

As long as you don't have any other pod eating fish, you have a lot of rock, and you get a pair of mandarins that you can spot feed frozen, I think you could be okay but, it is more risky than just one mandarin. Read up on them, the one I had lived six years until a tank crash due to an electrical fire but some reef's have a hard time supporting one long term.
 
I personally would not attempt a pair of mandarins in that size tank, and especially w/ the other fish on your list that will be pod competition.
Most dottybacks are semi aggressive, may have issues w/ them and inverts such as shrimps.
I personally love chromis and have no problem keeping them, but many will swear you can't.
The sand bed should be based on what you keep, I personally have never had issues w/ a DSB of 5" or deeper, and I keep sand dwellars, so I have to have a dsb, if not I would keep 1" or less.
 
Alright, so I've done a lot more research (still more reading to do!) and I've found that my initial concept is probably not in concordance with the "less is more" philosophy.

What do you all think of this build?

75 gallon tank--either custom with low-iron glass or a Marineland tank
Custom 36" tubular steel stand (with cabinetry)
Custom sump--20 or 30ish gallons
Coast to coast overflow
Beananimal overflow
Magdrive9.5 return pump
A closed loop system of some sort? (links/advice would be appreciated)
10 gallon remote deep sand bed (unlit)
10 gallon macroalgae and 'pod refugium (reverse lighting cycle +2 hours)
DIY LED lighting from reefledlights.com--60 total Cree leds
4x Eheim jager heaters at 1/4 necessary wattage each
Reef Octopus skimmer (XS 200)
Aquarium controller (haven't decided which brand yet)
Eventually, kalkwasser auto top off system

Tank will have a shallow sand bed (1.5" max) of 1-2mm oolitic aragonite.

Edited fish/coral selections:

Fish
1 Yellow Assessor
1 Orchid Dottyback
1 Laboute's Fairy Wrasse
2 Neon Gobies/Cleaner Wrasses
1 Mandarin Dragonet/Goby
1 Kole tang (maybe)

Sessile Inverts
Corals:
-ORA "Hyacinth" Birdsnest
-ORA Purple Monti cap
-ORA Green Monti digitata
-Maybe a blue Acro and one or two other SPS
-Maze coral (platygyra)
-Trumpet/Candycane
-Organ Pipe coral
-Toadstool leather (maybe, if so, a green polyped ORA)
-Cathedral Coral (maybe)
-A few zoas
Clams:
-ORA Derasa
-Blue Maxima
-Squamosa
-Maybe one or two others
Others:
-Worms (Koko and "duster clusters")
-Maybe a sponge (a purple vase/cup would be nice)

Major questions:

1) Buying 75 pounds of live rock. Is it worth it? Or is it a better investment to seed dry rock? I mean, are the pests that hitch hike really that bad? Any links to a benefit analysis would be much appreciated!

2) I may just pull the tank away from the wall and construct a simple stand for two 20 gallon tanks (the rsdb and the refugium, instead of two 10 gallon tanks) to sit behind the tank, unseen. This would also give me maintenance access to the back of the tank, plus give me a larger sump option (for actual live rock?), plus add another 20 gallons of volume to the system. I'm all about stability....

3) For the returns into the display tank: drilled bulkheads into the back wall, or over-top returns? Pros/cons? Experiences, good or bad?

4) Closed Loop. Yea? Nay? Any awesome or terrible experiences?

5) I really like Pearly Jawfish, but an inch of sand is probably too little for it to be happy, isn't it?

Thanks for reading, and please comment! Every comment is valued! :D
 
Also, just to be clear, my idea of "less is more" is most applicable to the display tank. I don't want any unnecessary clutter, so no powerheads. The components of the system can be as complicated as they need to be to maintain a beautifully simple display, but the end goal is a simple, beautiful display tank that relies more on natural functions for stability than technology or gadgets (hence the rsdb/refugium combo).
 
Just seed it with 1 or 2 live rocks and the rest with base rock like Marco or bulkreef has. The new fish list seems more in line with the tank should handle.
 
You're going to have a hard time keeping a dragonette alive in that small of a tank with a wrasse in there. The mandy won't stand a chance competing with the wrasses for food.
 
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