My journey using Chloroquine Phosphate begins...

[ThRoewer]

Thank you, Copper it is. Will ramp up slowly as suggested

I wouldn't treat six-lines unless they actually get sick, especially not with copper. Like mandarins they usually slime everything off that tries to infect them, but copper may interfere with that and on top also lower their immune response.

If you want to do prophylactic treatment against ich with such a small fish why not just do TTM with 2.5 to 5 gallon tanks?

 

[Psionicdragon]

Ok here is a question: lesser of two evils

Guttus tang stopped eating and its getting very skinny. It stopped eating after I started CP. It is with a PBT and a Clown Tang for QT. Should I discontinue the treatment so it can start eating again or keep the treatment going and risk it dying?

 

[ReefK]

I wouldn't treat six-lines unless they actually get sick, especially not with copper. Like mandarins they usually slime everything off that tries to infect them, but copper may interfere with that and on top also lower their immune response.

If you want to do prophylactic treatment against ich with such a small fish why not just do TTM with 2.5 to 5 gallon tanks?

I thought TTM is going to stress them out, moreover I need to setup another tank and may be getting couple of fishes...my six line is doing well with Copper...eating well...

 

[ReeFreak1]

Just following along any new posts...

 

[president89]

Does CP cure internal parasites, like the ones that cause white stringy feces?

 

[Deinonych]

Does CP cure internal parasites, like the ones that cause white stringy feces?

No, CP is for ectoparasites (Amyloodinium, Cryptocaryon etc.). For internal parasites, you'll want Prazipro or possibly metronidazole.

 

[president89]

Prazipro didn't work for me. I'll try the other.

 

[mattcoug]

Prazipro didn't work for me. I'll try the other.

I don't know what "other" is, but for intestinal worms, feeding hex shield pellets have worked extremely well for me. They contain metro.

 

[mattcoug]

Ok here is a question: lesser of two evils

Guttus tang stopped eating and its getting very skinny. It stopped eating after I started CP. It is with a PBT and a Clown Tang for QT. Should I discontinue the treatment so it can start eating again or keep the treatment going and risk it dying?

I've used cupramine on my Guttus very successfully, so you can transition over if needed. It depends on what you are treating for and where you are in the process.

EDIT - I noticed the previous post was a bit old... how did everything go?

 

[president89]

Other equals metro

 

[maddhugan]

CP may work for velvet, but for ich?

CP may work for velvet, but for ich?

For me CP didn't work in treating ICH. It seemed like it was working but the ich came so strong and killed so many fish while there was so much CP in the water.

So my 2cc is that go with tank transfer method or cupramine. They both work awesome. Stay away from CP if you are dealing with ICH.

Also, one should not even get to the place where they have ICH in the DT.
QUARANTINE of all fish for ich, fluke and velvet are a must.

I have a question....... I know CP treats velvet, but does copper treat velvet? any info..............?

 

[maddhugan]

for some tangs CP is a death sentence

for some tangs CP is a death sentence

Ok here is a question: lesser of two evils

Guttus tang stopped eating and its getting very skinny. It stopped eating after I started CP. It is with a PBT and a Clown Tang for QT. Should I discontinue the treatment so it can start eating again or keep the treatment going and risk it dying?

For some fishes, CP is the death sentence. I have no idea why people consider CP as a gentle medication. Try CP with regular hippo tang and see............it is a death sentence.

Also, CP DIDN'T WORK FOR ME FOR ICH. Stay away from CP.

 

[ThRoewer]

...
I have a question....... I know CP treats velvet, but does copper treat velvet? any info..............?

Velvet strains have shown the ability to adapt to copper and some have shown to tolerate copper levels of twice the lethal dose for fish.
So copper may or may not treat velvet depending on the history of that strain - its a gamble I would never take.

Copper as an immunosuppressant will definitely aide copper tolerant velvet strains (likely all by now due to low dose copper everywhere along the supply chain) by incapacitating the fish's immune system.

The best universal cure that can be used with CP sensitive fish are formalin baths in combination with tank transfers (daily in acute cases).

 

[maddhugan]

thanks for the info

thanks for the info

Velvet strains have shown the ability to adapt to copper and some have shown to tolerate copper levels of twice the lethal dose for fish.
So copper may or may not treat velvet depending on the history of that strain - its a gamble I would never take.

Copper as an immunosuppressant will definitely aide copper tolerant velvet strains (likely all by now due to low dose copper everywhere along the supply chain) by incapacitating the fish's immune system.

The best universal cure that can be used with CP sensitive fish are formalin baths in combination with tank transfers (daily in acute cases).

Thanks for the info and now I know copper is useless for velvet. one more question, how does the tank transfer help with velvet? Velvet doesn't have the same life cycle (time wise) as the ich right?
thanks

 

[maddhugan]

No I don't have velvet but I Just want to treat the fish anyway since some fish can carry it without symptoms. May be after tank transfer and prazipro, do a CP treatment for 5 days?
no no not for hippo tang. CP for hippo tang is a death sentence for the fish.

 

[ThRoewer]

Formalin dips in combination with tank transfers are the most reliable treatment.
For an active velvet infection the dips and transfers should be done daily for at least 5 days.

CP is effective as well, but there are a couple of factors that may cause failure and not all fish can handle it.

 

[HumbleFish]

Two publications below throw CP's effectiveness treating ich in question.

In table 2, it shows that it takes a full 60 mins to achieve a 96.6% kill rate of Cryptocaryon irritans theronts when using CP @10mg/L: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/256502202_Characterization_of_Cryptocaryon_sp_isolated_from_marine_fish_in_THAILAND_and_in_vitro_treatment

The table also shows that formalin & copper were both 100% effective against theronts within the first 5 minutes.

Table 2 from this publication shows a 87.42% theront mortality after 90 mins of CP exposure @10mg/L; 96.61% theront mortality after 90 mins of CP exposure @40mg/L: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51198281_In_vitro_treatments_for_the_theront_stage_of_the_ciliate_protozoan_Cryptocaryon_irritans

The data from both studies suggests it is unlikely CP eradicates all the theronts in one pass, and that a small percentage could make their way onto a fish before being eradicated. Thoughts?

 

[ThRoewer]

Interesting article.

But can mortality be set equal to infectiousness? It is not necessarily required to kill the theronts to render them non-infective.

If a medication either disable their ability to find a fish or inhibits them digging into a fish's skin it may also be effective.
And anything that kills them after an hour or two definitely does for sure already damage to them before it kills them.

Also regarding Formalin and Copper - I wonder if those were the lowest concentrations with a 100% kill ratio. And what was the kill ration at lower doses?

It should also be noted that some strains are significantly different, so they may have a different sensitivity to the various medications.

 

[Dmorty217]

I thought TTM is going to stress them out, moreover I need to setup another tank and may be getting couple of fishes...my six line is doing well with Copper...eating well...

TTM is way less stressful then copper is. Thanks for the articles Humble

 

[alexgr]

Guys I have been reading this thread I have a couple of questions.

This "Life Spectrum Ick Shield Powder 50G" is arriving in a few days and I'm going to use it to treat a kole tang, a hippo tang, two tomato clowns and four cromies.

I just dose once and leave it like that for four weeks ?

During the four weeks should I keep the lights off or I can keep the lights on so fish can see the food ?

Since CP is supposed to not harm bacteria can I add some live rock into the quarantine tank transforming it into a fowlr quarantine ?