Myka's 69 SPS Tank 2015

[reefmutt]

In my experiences, higher alkalinity, higher light, higher nutrients (PO4 and NO3 in water column). If you have high lights you need to fuel the increased demand for nutrients and elements.

Since I had low nutrients in the water column I also had lower light and lower alkalinity. Isn't this common practice among the rest of you SPS addicts?

I guess that makes sense.. Higher nutrients would allow for faster growth and maybe greater levels of zooxanthellea (sp) in the tissue so corals could tolerate faster growth and more light intensity.... But I don't really know..
I've never really tried to correlate nutrient levels to lighting. I try to keep relatively close to nsw levels and keep it stable..

 

[jroovers]

In my experiences, higher alkalinity, higher light, higher nutrients (PO4 and NO3 in water column). If you have high lights you need to fuel the increased demand for nutrients and elements.

Since I had low nutrients in the water column I also had lower light and lower alkalinity. Isn't this common practice among the rest of you SPS addicts?

Hmm... if that were the case, wouldn't we see more growth with more light, higher alkalinity, and greater phosphates and nitrates in the system, and generally wouldn't we all strive for those parameters if that were true? I've certainly heard the correlation between greater nutrient levels in the tank, and the need for more intense lighting, but I've never adjusted my lighting based on my alkalinity levels. That said, I usually keep my alkalinity at the lower end of the spectrum (between 7 and 8 dkh), and have found that no more than 4 to 5 hours of peak full spectrum lighting is best for my corals.

 

[Myka]

I think this correlation is becoming more apparent to more people in the last years because of how efficient we have become with nutrient export and then combine that with the super powerful LED lighting that has become popular. Remember when biopellets came out and everyone was getting burned tips with higher alkalinity and then we found out it was only a problem when PO4 and NO3 were "0"? I've noticed a ton of new threads especially in the last few years with people complaining about pale starved corals when everything looks good on paper. We're achieving ULNS without even trying and then not supplementing with foods and aminos like a complete Zeovit-type system would.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[BigJohnny]

What would be nice is a chart showing general guidelines for appropriate proportional amounts of nitrate and phosphate to alkalinity as well as par. I have powerful lights and too low nutrients IMO which is preventing full coloration, however I haven't experienced alk burn and run at 9 dkH with 1 ppm or undetectable nitrate and .03 or less phosphate. I'd like to know what I should adjust in which direction. There's gotta be a math/science guru out there who can come up with a formula based on an average of successful reef tanks.

 

[jroovers]

What would be nice is a chart showing general guidelines for appropriate proportional amounts of nitrate and phosphate to alkalinity as well as par. I have powerful lights and too low nutrients IMO which is preventing full coloration, however I haven't experienced alk burn and run at 9 dkH with 1 ppm or undetectable nitrate and .03 or less phosphate. I'd like to know what I should adjust in which direction. There's gotta be a math/science guru out there who can come up with a formula based on an average of successful reef tanks.

I think you'll be better off in the long run by going on feel. Myra had a good point above, going to a value because a guide says so isn't necessarily the best course of action. Nothing replaces careful observation and each system is unique. I would start by upping your feedings slightly, and maybe reducing photoperiod slightly, then observing for some time before adjusting further. Eventually you'll find the sweet spot :beer:

 

[Myka]

What would be nice is a chart showing general guidelines for appropriate proportional amounts of nitrate and phosphate to alkalinity as well as par. I have powerful lights and too low nutrients IMO which is preventing full coloration, however I haven't experienced alk burn and run at 9 dkH with 1 ppm or undetectable nitrate and .03 or less phosphate. I'd like to know what I should adjust in which direction. There's gotta be a math/science guru out there who can come up with a formula based on an average of successful reef tanks.

Just because your water column tests low NO3 and PO4 doesn't mean you're running an ULNS. The true definition (Imo) of an ULNS is the tanks' ability to use added PO4 and NO3. So if you dose the tank with 1 ppm NO3 and 0.05 ppm PO4 it should be gone in a matter of hours. those are the tanks that benefit from increasing nutrients because they are nutrient deprived. Some tanks just turn into algae gardens. So it's not so easy as to create a chart - it's definitely more of a feel thing.

 

[BigJohnny]

Just because your water column tests low NO3 and PO4 doesn't mean you're running an ULNS. The true definition (Imo) of an ULNS is the tanks' ability to use added PO4 and NO3. So if you dose the tank with 1 ppm NO3 and 0.05 ppm PO4 it should be gone in a matter of hours. those are the tanks that benefit from increasing nutrients because they are nutrient deprived. Some tanks just turn into algae gardens. So it's not so easy as to create a chart - it's definitely more of a feel thing.

I never said I was running "ULNS", I said I think I have too low nutrients for my lighting and dkH. I also never said it would be easy to create the chart.

The 2 reasons you gave for it being more about feel and less suitable for a scientific chart are either testable (consumption of dosed nitrate) or observable (increase in algae), and therefore by definition, scientific rather than related to feel.

Don't squash my dreams of the easy bake oven, set and forget it instructions to the perfect reef tank! [emoji12]

 

[JB NY]

In my experiences, higher alkalinity, higher light, higher nutrients (PO4 and NO3 in water column). If you have high lights you need to fuel the increased demand for nutrients and elements.

Since I had low nutrients in the water column I also had lower light and lower alkalinity. Isn't this common practice among the rest of you SPS addicts?

I know quite a few people with very successful SPS tanks that still run 400 MH with undetectable N and P who keep their alk in the 10-11 range with no issues.

I used to carbon dose and run GFO pretty heavily and never measured any nitrate and P was always 0.01 or 0, alk would bounce from 8 to 10 with never a problem. No algae in my tank at all and very colorful SPS, and growth was very strong. Then one day after years of this I started to get burnt tips. Now I run my system with the MH a little higher over the tank, some N and P, no carbon dosing or GFO and alk under 8. But I have no idea why I need to do this now when I didn't then.

 

[Myka]

But I have no idea why I need to do this now when I didn't then.

Neither do I. I could relate the same story to you.

I think reefing in general has become more complicated as we tend to mess with parameters more and have more equipment options. Back in the day we all used the same salt because it was the only one available, our lighting had few options, and we didn't add much besides a 2-part. The corals we stocked were all the same and if they died we tried something else. We all had hardy corals (even the Acros were hardy).

 

[cFloor]

Sorry your tank has had some troubles. You have a very good outlook on it and I'm sure you will turn things around in no time. Best of luck Myka

 

[reefmutt]

I've never had burnt tips in my reefing life.. Until about 3 weeks ago. When I do my 10% wc every week I mix a few capfuls of Purple Up into my ro water before adding my IO salt.. Been doing this for months. However, lately I found a few corals getting exposed tips so I thought of alk burn...
The kh of my make up water is 14 with the purple up mixed in!
My system kh has been 7.3 ish for a long time and the 10% wc only raises it to 7.7 several hours after the wc..
Not even sure this is enough of a jump to cause alk burn..
Anyways, I'll try adding a bit of muriatic acid to the mixing tank to drop the kh and see if that helps..
It's an odd thing, alk burn.. Not a consistent phenomenon...

 

[BigJohnny]

I've never had burnt tips in my reefing life.. Until about 3 weeks ago. When I do my 10% wc every week I mix a few capfuls of Purple Up into my ro water before adding my IO salt.. Been doing this for months. However, lately I found a few corals getting exposed tips so I thought of alk burn...
The kh of my make up water is 14 with the purple up mixed in!
My system kh has been 7.3 ish for a long time and the 10% wc only raises it to 7.7 several hours after the wc..
Not even sure this is enough of a jump to cause alk burn..
Anyways, I'll try adding a bit of muriatic acid to the mixing tank to drop the kh and see if that helps..
It's an odd thing, alk burn.. Not a consistent phenomenon...

You have 20 years of reefing experience and you use purple up? Why? Just curious as I've always considered it a gimmick and an unnecessarily expensive way to boost Alkalinity.

 

[reefmutt]

You have 20 years of reefing experience and you use purple up? Why? Just curious as I've always considered it a gimmick and an unnecessarily expensive way to boost Alkalinity.

I love the stuff and yet people laugh at me all the time for using it. I don't think it's a gimmick at all.. I think it's a calcium reactor in a bottle.. Obviously not as efficient as a true calcium reactor, but still can have the same effect.
It is essentially pulverized crushed coral. A powdered version of seachem's calcium reactor media.
Granted, it ain't cheap but I only use 3 capfuls in a 27 gallon reservoir of make up RO water.
I have never done any scientific studies on it- maybe reefvet has? I would love to have his opinion..
It is very capable of adding calcium and alkalinity as well as adding many of the other beneficial minerals to any tank..
I use it with my RO water because I assume RO water will allow for more of the product to dissolve into it, basically remineralizing the water..
I have used it in softie tanks and fish only tanks for calcium and alkalinity maintenance..
Not to mention in African chichlid tanks..
It does what it advertises: makes corraline algea grow.. In the marine tanks, obviously..
Sure, strontium additions and any two part additive will as well but imo, it isn't a gimmick... Money maker for seachem? Yes indeed! But it works..
I have tested my make up water for phosphates and although it's not devoid of p, (around .03... Probably varies a bit) neither is any crushed coral, I don't think..

 

[Myka]

Sorry your tank has had some troubles. You have a very good outlook on it and I'm sure you will turn things around in no time. Best of luck Myka

Thank you. The house doesn't smell like death and the tank is just full of frags so really not too bad!

 

[BigJohnny]

I love the stuff and yet people laugh at me all the time for using it. I don't think it's a gimmick at all.. I think it's a calcium reactor in a bottle.. Obviously not as efficient as a true calcium reactor, but still can have the same effect.
It is essentially pulverized crushed coral. A powdered version of seachem's calcium reactor media.
Granted, it ain't cheap but I only use 3 capfuls in a 27 gallon reservoir of make up RO water.
I have never done any scientific studies on it- maybe reefvet has? I would love to have his opinion..
It is very capable of adding calcium and alkalinity as well as adding many of the other beneficial minerals to any tank..
I use it with my RO water because I assume RO water will allow for more of the product to dissolve into it, basically remineralizing the water..
I have used it in softie tanks and fish only tanks for calcium and alkalinity maintenance..
Not to mention in African chichlid tanks..
It does what it advertises: makes corraline algea grow.. In the marine tanks, obviously..
Sure, strontium additions and any two part additive will as well but imo, it isn't a gimmick... Money maker for seachem? Yes indeed! But it works..
I have tested my make up water for phosphates and although it's not devoid of p, (around .03... Probably varies a bit) neither is any crushed coral, I don't think..

Interesting, couldn't disagree more haha. Was just curious, thanks! Whatever works for you though. Moving on.....

 

[Myka]

I can't say I've ever used Purple Up. I'm not sure I've had a situation where I actually wanted to encourage coralline. That just makes more work! Haha

 

[Scythanith]

I got you covered for some local stuff when you're ready.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

Sorry for your loss.. but if you don't make mistakes how will you learn! its a hobby, dont get to bummed about it! you can always have it back looking better then before!

 

[reefmutt]

Interesting, couldn't disagree more haha. Was just curious, thanks! Whatever works for you though. Moving on.....

No problem! That's what makes the world go around.

 

[Myka]

Well I'm back after being away for 10 days. I only lost one more piece (it looked semi-good when I left). I'll have to do a count, but I think I'm about 50% loss right now, and I think it's probably done. The Space Invaders Pectina is all puffed up and looks ok, but I know that doesn't mean it's out of the woods yet. The Hawkins "echinata" is touch and go still. All the other pieces that have some STN on them don't have any white skeleton showing, it all has diatoms, so no new STN. The are two pieces that look entirely unaffected; a Mille and an A insignis. Oh and the Rainbow Trachy, the RBTA, and all the Z&P are unaffected too.

So, kind of a funny story...

...I asked the LFS to let me know the next time he's doing an order that has Ignitus (Flame) Anthias available and I can give that another go. So I'm on vacay and not paying attention much and he texts me, "Do you want some Flavo Anthias"? I'm like ya, sure. In my mind I was thinking he mis-typed "Flame", and it didn't even occur to me that there IS a Flavogutattus Anthias. So I go in there yesterday and ask when are the Ignitus showing up? He tells me they aren't Ignitus, they are Flavo. I'm like, shiat. :lol: They are a deepwater species and they are coming from Philippines so I'm a bit concerned for their health/acclimation, plus I'm also worried they might be a shy fish in a high light tank like mine. Hmmm...anyone have experience with these guys??

I got you covered for some local stuff when you're ready.

Thanks Scott!

Sorry for your loss.. but if you don't make mistakes how will you learn! its a hobby, dont get to bummed about it! you can always have it back looking better then before!

Oh, I didn't learn anything. I knew what was going on. :lol: I'm not bummed - they were just frags and only a few hundred bucks. Of all things that can go wrong this is the least of it. :beachbum: