Noisy Vortech DrySide FIX!!
- Thread starter dahenley
- Start date
jedimasterben
LED world domination!
If the wet side was off-balance, then that could make some motor noise. Give it a shot and let us know
hilgert
Excessive Minimalist
How are these working for you on the MP10s? I have two MP10s, and they seem to have a "whirring" sound when on higher speeds. Not terribly annoying...you can hear them across the room when there is no TV or radio on. When those (TV, radio) are on I don't notice it at all.
I might pick up a set of these (how many do I need for each MP10 dry side?) for when I need to replace them.
EDIT: I looked back in the thread...two bearings for each dry side. Still have question if they remain quiet for you before I order.
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jedimasterben
LED world domination!
The first time I replaced it was with ceramic bearings and it was louder than before. Right now it's got these in it, and while they started out with a whir, it went away after a little while.
evolved
Wrasse Nut
Well, I come to share less than happy news with this thread.
First, some background. For better or worse, I am a mechanical engineer, and work in the gas turbine engine industry. To make myself a bit more dangerous, I am also mechanically inclined. So moving into this DIY, I was not all that intimidated by it.
Disclaimer: I did not have a bearing splitter ready (and I regret that)
I've had two MP40s for about 4 years, and they been used continuously over that time. They've always been loud, but the past couple years they've certainly become even louder. So with the QD version coming out, I was pretty convinced I could just make my old MP40s plenty quiet enough for me.
They came apart just fine. The magnet on each was not balanced, but no worries - a prop balancer made that pretty simple. One thing to note there; I was using a classic Du-Bro brand balancer, and quickly I realized the metal in the stand was influencing the magnet, and therefore not at all indicating how it was out of balance. Just something for others to be careful of.
The old bearings were on very tight, as others have found. Consistently, the stock bearings on mine were also nmb 607z and nmb R-1980KK. The glass side bearing came off pretty easy at room temp, once it was moved just a tiny bit off its seated position. The opposing side bearing away from the glass is very stubborn and on the shaft really tight. I managed to get the first vortech done, but on the second one, it was with this bearing where the trouble happened...
I was merely holding the magnet, and gently trying to pry the outer bearing away with a small screw driver. I was NOT prying against the magnet, but intentionally away from it. And then this happened:
I'm pretty convinced the magnet had become embrittled with heat over the course of usage in 4 years. But had I used a bearing splitter, I would have avoid the costly need of a whole new dry side.
Other notes for others:
I used the boca bearings which had also been recommended for the MP40s: MR607-2RU TH9/C3 and X-MR698-EPS
X-MR698-EPS is a terrible choice. I am unsure if perhaps something about their spec has changed since they were recommended, but they are so tight out of the package they literally will not spin. I had to clamp the inner race with the right size channel locks in order to force the outer race to start spinning, and even then these bearings are really notchy. Avoid them!
MR607-2RU TH9/C3 is a really nice bearing; feels and (I think) sounds great. With a tuned ear, I'm pretty confident I can only hear the notchy bearing in the working vortech, and not a peep from this one.
So X-MR698-EPS will be replaced with MR698-2RU TH9/C3; the equivalent type of the smaller bearing.
Last tip: I didn't see anyone mention this in the whole thread, and I may well have missed it in 19 pages, but a small 7 & 8mm sockets are perfect for tapping the new bearings on the shafts. I see most people are apply some force on the outer race upon assembly, and that's really not the way to go about things.
MOST IMPORTANT TIP: USE A BEARING SPLITTER for dis-assembly. It's worth the ~$30 insurance.
First, some background. For better or worse, I am a mechanical engineer, and work in the gas turbine engine industry. To make myself a bit more dangerous, I am also mechanically inclined. So moving into this DIY, I was not all that intimidated by it.
Disclaimer: I did not have a bearing splitter ready (and I regret that)
I've had two MP40s for about 4 years, and they been used continuously over that time. They've always been loud, but the past couple years they've certainly become even louder. So with the QD version coming out, I was pretty convinced I could just make my old MP40s plenty quiet enough for me.
They came apart just fine. The magnet on each was not balanced, but no worries - a prop balancer made that pretty simple. One thing to note there; I was using a classic Du-Bro brand balancer, and quickly I realized the metal in the stand was influencing the magnet, and therefore not at all indicating how it was out of balance. Just something for others to be careful of.
The old bearings were on very tight, as others have found. Consistently, the stock bearings on mine were also nmb 607z and nmb R-1980KK. The glass side bearing came off pretty easy at room temp, once it was moved just a tiny bit off its seated position. The opposing side bearing away from the glass is very stubborn and on the shaft really tight. I managed to get the first vortech done, but on the second one, it was with this bearing where the trouble happened...
I was merely holding the magnet, and gently trying to pry the outer bearing away with a small screw driver. I was NOT prying against the magnet, but intentionally away from it. And then this happened:
I'm pretty convinced the magnet had become embrittled with heat over the course of usage in 4 years. But had I used a bearing splitter, I would have avoid the costly need of a whole new dry side.
Other notes for others:
I used the boca bearings which had also been recommended for the MP40s: MR607-2RU TH9/C3 and X-MR698-EPS
X-MR698-EPS is a terrible choice. I am unsure if perhaps something about their spec has changed since they were recommended, but they are so tight out of the package they literally will not spin. I had to clamp the inner race with the right size channel locks in order to force the outer race to start spinning, and even then these bearings are really notchy. Avoid them!
MR607-2RU TH9/C3 is a really nice bearing; feels and (I think) sounds great. With a tuned ear, I'm pretty confident I can only hear the notchy bearing in the working vortech, and not a peep from this one.
So X-MR698-EPS will be replaced with MR698-2RU TH9/C3; the equivalent type of the smaller bearing.
Last tip: I didn't see anyone mention this in the whole thread, and I may well have missed it in 19 pages, but a small 7 & 8mm sockets are perfect for tapping the new bearings on the shafts. I see most people are apply some force on the outer race upon assembly, and that's really not the way to go about things.
MOST IMPORTANT TIP: USE A BEARING SPLITTER for dis-assembly. It's worth the ~$30 insurance.
Attachments
Last edited:
evolved
Wrasse Nut
Oh, one more thing I observed on the MP40s and forgot to mention.
The axial face of the shaft which mates with the magnet (glass side) is very rough. This is certainly intentional to help this end of the shaft "bite" into the magnet and keep the magnet from spinning. And it works well, with the coated magnet.
However, there's also radial clearance between the countersunk retaining screw and the magnet, so the only way the magnet gets a radial pilot is by virtue of the countersunk screw. But, with the end of the shaft as rough as it is, I feel there is potential for the frictional clamping force to overcome the countersink, meaning the screw could be tight but the magnet is eccentric. This scenario clearly presents a balance issue.
I would recommend to rotate the rotor in a vertical position with the glass side down when reattaching the magnet. This will allow gravity to help prevent premature contact of the magnet to the rough end of the shaft, and will allow the countersunk screw to best center the magnet.
The axial face of the shaft which mates with the magnet (glass side) is very rough. This is certainly intentional to help this end of the shaft "bite" into the magnet and keep the magnet from spinning. And it works well, with the coated magnet.
However, there's also radial clearance between the countersunk retaining screw and the magnet, so the only way the magnet gets a radial pilot is by virtue of the countersunk screw. But, with the end of the shaft as rough as it is, I feel there is potential for the frictional clamping force to overcome the countersink, meaning the screw could be tight but the magnet is eccentric. This scenario clearly presents a balance issue.
I would recommend to rotate the rotor in a vertical position with the glass side down when reattaching the magnet. This will allow gravity to help prevent premature contact of the magnet to the rough end of the shaft, and will allow the countersunk screw to best center the magnet.
solitude127
Proud user of IO Salt!
Well, I come to share less than happy news with this thread.
First, some background. For better or worse, I am a mechanical engineer, and work in the gas turbine engine industry. To make myself a bit more dangerous, I am also mechanically inclined. So moving into this DIY, I was not all that intimidated by it.
Disclaimer: I did not have a bearing splitter ready (and I regret that)
I've had two MP40s for about 4 years, and they been used continuously over that time. They've always been loud, but the past couple years they've certainly become even louder. So with the QD version coming out, I was pretty convinced I could just make my old MP40s plenty quiet enough for me.
They came apart just fine. The magnet on each was not balanced, but no worries - a prop balancer made that pretty simple. One thing to note there; I was using a classic Du-Bro brand balancer, and quickly I realized the metal in the stand was influencing the magnet, and therefore not at all indicating how it was out of balance. Just something for others to be careful of.
The old bearings were on very tight, as others have found. Consistently, the stock bearings on mine were also nmb 607z and nmb R-1980KK. The glass side bearing came off pretty easy at room temp, once it was moved just a tiny bit off its seated position. The opposing side bearing away from the glass is very stubborn and on the shaft really tight. I managed to get the first vortech done, but on the second one, it was with this bearing where the trouble happened...
I was merely holding the magnet, and gently trying to pry the outer bearing away with a small screw driver. I was NOT prying against the magnet, but intentionally away from it. And then this happened:
I'm pretty convinced the magnet had become embrittled with heat over the course of usage in 4 years. But had I used a bearing splitter, I would have avoid the costly need of a whole new dry side.
Other notes for others:
I used the boca bearings which had also been recommended for the MP40s: MR607-2RU TH9/C3 and X-MR698-EPS
X-MR698-EPS is a terrible choice. I am unsure if perhaps something about their spec has changed since they were recommended, but they are so tight out of the package they literally will not spin. I had to clamp the inner race with the right size channel locks in order to force the outer race to start spinning, and even then these bearings are really notchy. Avoid them!
MR607-2RU TH9/C3 is a really nice bearing; feels and (I think) sounds great. With a tuned ear, I'm pretty confident I can only hear the notchy bearing in the working vortech, and not a peep from this one.
So X-MR698-EPS will be replaced with MR698-2RU TH9/C3; the equivalent type of the smaller bearing.
Last tip: I didn't see anyone mention this in the whole thread, and I may well have missed it in 19 pages, but a small 7 & 8mm sockets are perfect for tapping the new bearings on the shafts. I see most people are apply some force on the outer race upon assembly, and that's really not the way to go about things.
MOST IMPORTANT TIP: USE A BEARING SPLITTER for dis-assembly. It's worth the ~$30 insurance.
Same thing happened to me as well but when I trying to pry the bearing off, it slipped out of my hands and fell onto the ground and split like yours. For the next one, I bought a bearing puller and wished I had done that with the first one. Live and learn
I love you guys, you're the best. Now help me
I've been taking apart my franken-MP10w following the posted guides. I ended up stripping one of the 1.5" long screws internally holding the motor assembly together (I tried being careful, but it didn't work out). I ended up buying a screw extracting drill bit and have pulled it, but now I have to replace it. My question: Does anyone know what size that specific screw is? I believe it is 3/32 (measured diameter of non-threaded part with a digital caliper), but the screws measure a slightly larger diameter than the non-threaded barrel section. I was just going to order 5 3/32 x 1.5" screws off ebay since I can't find that small locally, but thought I'd check with this team first before waiting a week or two for the order to come in and then be the wrong size. I'm hoping to not need a bearing puller/separator, but we'll see about that.
I can take pictures. I've already taken a video of it and posted it in my build thread. It was loud as heck. It's also particularly a franken-MP10w because it has the old-style horizontal box MP40w controller attached to it, and I didn't have spacers for it despite running it on a 29g biocube with thin glass. It didn't come with a spacer, and I didn't know it needed it, so probably my fault it burnt up the bearing, though it was always quite noisy.
Your help is greatly appreciated! I'll be sure to post pics as it comes back together again.
I've been taking apart my franken-MP10w following the posted guides. I ended up stripping one of the 1.5" long screws internally holding the motor assembly together (I tried being careful, but it didn't work out). I ended up buying a screw extracting drill bit and have pulled it, but now I have to replace it. My question: Does anyone know what size that specific screw is? I believe it is 3/32 (measured diameter of non-threaded part with a digital caliper), but the screws measure a slightly larger diameter than the non-threaded barrel section. I was just going to order 5 3/32 x 1.5" screws off ebay since I can't find that small locally, but thought I'd check with this team first before waiting a week or two for the order to come in and then be the wrong size. I'm hoping to not need a bearing puller/separator, but we'll see about that.
I can take pictures. I've already taken a video of it and posted it in my build thread. It was loud as heck. It's also particularly a franken-MP10w because it has the old-style horizontal box MP40w controller attached to it, and I didn't have spacers for it despite running it on a 29g biocube with thin glass. It didn't come with a spacer, and I didn't know it needed it, so probably my fault it burnt up the bearing, though it was always quite noisy.
Your help is greatly appreciated! I'll be sure to post pics as it comes back together again.
I looked on ebay, and they have an assortment of screws that should fit, i just need to know the right size. Ugh I posted 3/32 above, but last night I put 2-56 x 1.5" screws in my ebay shopping cart right after doing the measurements. I brought the screw with me to work, but no calipers here.
I might call around and see if there is a specialty hardware store somewhere in Manhattan that I could swing by today.
I might call around and see if there is a specialty hardware store somewhere in Manhattan that I could swing by today.
ReddyW
New member
There's a good chance many MP10s have different screws.
One of my motors still had the part# on it. When I looked it up there were about 50 Chinese manufacturers on Alibaba making it (end shaft and cord lengths were customizeable options). It appeared from the listings that they were intended for children's toys!
One of my motors still had the part# on it. When I looked it up there were about 50 Chinese manufacturers on Alibaba making it (end shaft and cord lengths were customizeable options). It appeared from the listings that they were intended for children's toys!
JillNairn
New member
Working on a vortech and no dice getting the bearing off the magnet on the first vortech. Worried the magnet is going to give. Very worried. It is cracking. I might try glueing it???
This is a pump from I think 2010. I had bought two. One right out the box was horrible, but I was overseas. I thought eh, I have a warranty. I literally ran it at the lowest I could to avoid the noise on the one. The other was a little annoying but bearable. It never went over 50%. I swear their warranty was longer than one year but when I wrote them like 15 months later, they said it was just a year. Used them all of a year and a half. Put them away and haven't used them since. I went back to my tunzes.
I just bought new wetsides. Why, why, why. I was thinking, hell I might as well try to use them. NO, no, no. I never liked them. Even the quieter one wasn't really quiet. But then I kept saying to myself, this bearing thing seems to work for most everyone. Banging my head against the wall. I should of just sold them on here and let them be someone else's problem.
Why would vortech not sell the magnet to someone whose magnet is broke??? I really just do not understand this company. It is a simple thing to just provide a part. But instead we have to pay 239$ for a new dry side. Are you fricken kidding me??? If they are worried someone is cheating the system then make them send a dry side, and sell them at a more reasonable price. A dry side and a wet side, is nearly the cost of a new complete pump.
I hope the magnet doesn't break. If it does, I hope I can glue it back together.
I hate these pumps. Worst money I ever spent on my tank.
This is a pump from I think 2010. I had bought two. One right out the box was horrible, but I was overseas. I thought eh, I have a warranty. I literally ran it at the lowest I could to avoid the noise on the one. The other was a little annoying but bearable. It never went over 50%. I swear their warranty was longer than one year but when I wrote them like 15 months later, they said it was just a year. Used them all of a year and a half. Put them away and haven't used them since. I went back to my tunzes.
I just bought new wetsides. Why, why, why. I was thinking, hell I might as well try to use them. NO, no, no. I never liked them. Even the quieter one wasn't really quiet. But then I kept saying to myself, this bearing thing seems to work for most everyone. Banging my head against the wall. I should of just sold them on here and let them be someone else's problem.
Why would vortech not sell the magnet to someone whose magnet is broke??? I really just do not understand this company. It is a simple thing to just provide a part. But instead we have to pay 239$ for a new dry side. Are you fricken kidding me??? If they are worried someone is cheating the system then make them send a dry side, and sell them at a more reasonable price. A dry side and a wet side, is nearly the cost of a new complete pump.
I hope the magnet doesn't break. If it does, I hope I can glue it back together.
I hate these pumps. Worst money I ever spent on my tank.
I know this has been asked in this topic before. but it's been over a year. I figured I would ask to see if there's been any improved bearings released? If so or if not can you provide a link to the bearing. Also I'm wanting to make sure that the links on Pg 5 are still the ones to get. I noticed they had different coloured shields does that mean anything?
Thanks!
Thanks!
fijisrfr
New member
I took mine to the local auto parts store,they pulled them & put the new ones on.... No charge!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
davocean
Active member
Nice tip there Duncan!
I have not seen this thread in a while, looks like I finally got my wish w/ the quiet drives, stoked on my MP40QD, but I still have a MP20 running strong from way back, may do this on that one.
