"pastel" colors vs. deep dark coloring

jpierson77

New member
I have noticed that my corals seem to be a pastel rather that the deep dark coloring some recieve. I have an orange cap that is more hot pink than orange. My green slimer is an eletric neon green rather than what I see in pics. And my purple/green cap is not nearly as dark green or purple as it was, now more light purple and light green. What causes this. Growth is very good. I run Rowa-phos in a reactor prodibio and skim heavily. I have heard the zeo systems tend to be more pastel colored because of well the system works. Is this a lack of nutrients that mkes the colors lighter?
 
I had two 400 mh se on there before and had the same coloration in fact, I actually think my coloring is a little better now with the t-5, i know my growth is better.
 
I had two 400 mh se on there before and had the same coloration in fact, I actually think my coloring is a little better now with the t-5, i know my growth is better.
 
My T5's don't produce lighter colors.

I have noticed some of my acros fading though lately, right after I started mixing vinegar with my kalk for a more potent dose. The vinegar feeds bacteria which begin to multiply and ultimately make a very nutrient poor environment. My water looked crystal clear, I never had to use the mag float because there was nothing on the glass and my acros, especially my purples began to fade.
I think it's the same principle.
 
When i scrape my glass it is a avery light dusting that comes off, used to require busting out the razor blade every month and a half to get the heavy stuff but not any more. i guess ill just feed some more try that
 
I think that the golden/brown zooxanthellae are responsible for the darker pigments. This speaks to the paradox of contemporary methods of keeping stoney corals IMO.

It has been our goal for a long time to keep tank water low in dissoved nutrients like on natural coral reefs. Corals have adapted to survive in this environment with lots of mouths for eating, and the zooxanthellae recycle the coral poo, turning it into carbohydrates/sugar that the coral then makes mucus with. In an aquarium though, its not always the same. If there are excess dissolved nutrients in the water column, the zooxanthellae get to eat, but the coral eats less. That can throw the symbiosis out of balance, causing slower growth, and poor health. However, nowadays folks are keeping dissoved nutrients much lower than before, but may or may not be providing enough nutrients in the form of prey capture. If there is less food for the coral, then there is in turn less coral poo that feed the zooxanthellae. They in turn die and/or are expelled.

I have never seen a real reef, but from the pictures and moves that I have seen, there has not been any 'pastel' colored corals, and likewise there has always been crap (aggregates/detritus) floating all over the place. That leads me to believe that 'light/pastel' corals are in fact malnourished. Now don't get me wrong, zeo tanks, and rainbow colored 'sps' reef tanks can be quite a sight to behold, and it sure does seem like the corals can adapt and grow quite well in this environment, so I can sure see why this is the goal of many hobbyists. But that does not nessesarly mean that the coral is in a 'natural' state, or that the coral is 'healthy'.

When the subject of malnourished/bleached corals comes up in this forum the conventional wisdom is
Add a fish or 5 and increase the feedings to once a day at least.
But I am not convinced that this is the best answer. I have no doubt that it works, but that does not mean that its the best method.

First of all, more fish will result in more dissolved nitrogen (ammonia) in the water column. Often the tanks with these issues are already lacking sand, and/or algae, and, we are using less live rock than we did before. It seems to me that these are best lines of defence in combating this unwanted byproduct. In the past, I have suggested the intermentant use of the protein skimmer, but that idea was dissmissed because of concern for ammonia, and oxygen. But that for some reason dosn't apply for adding fish.
Second, digestion comes at an energy cost to the coral, so one might perhaps consider the nutrient profile of the food that the coral is eating. Take flakefood for example, who knows whats in it to begin with, then its dried, stored for god knows how long, fed to the fish, digested, and then the coral eats it. Better than nothing, but why not feed gut loaded zooplanton to the fish? Why not just feed it to the coral? If you like to use seafood, why use the fish to make it small enough for the coral to eat? Wouldn't a kitchen appliance work just as well?

Anton
 
Ive been running T5's and they have been showing significantly "lighter" colors. I even feed pappone, dt's oe's nightly unskimmed and get a slight nitrate reading weekly. IMO I am starting to believe its the T5's despite what i used to think. On the contrary, New School has a HUGE bioload...just ask what is in his tank. My "lighter" colors arent due to the bulb combination.....not bleaching them..run heavy blue plus.

I used to be in the BB/destroy nutrient club...but now I am all for adding nutrients, albeit to add nutrients to my humble set up means dumping and dumping and dumping, figuring out that is the whole point of BB except to have control of it.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9094293#post9094293 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by antonsemrad
Why not just feed it to the coral? If you like to use seafood, why use the fish to make it small enough for the coral to eat? Wouldn't a kitchen appliance work just as well?
Great post, and a great point.

I too do not see why one would need to add fish just to feed the coral more. Just feed the coral already.

I think along a similar vein regarding pastel-tanks vs. deeper-color tanks. Lack of food/nutrient, dissolved/capture imbalance, and with the light/etc we now achieve over our tanks ... IMO I see a similar thing going on.

Export is vital, but it is not the only key to keeping stony corals IMO.
 
maybe it's the BB Serioussnaps? I've seen a lot of BB tanks with both MH or T5 and they seem to run towards more of the pastel, lighter colors.
 
Fantastic post, just wanted to say that I totally agree with the point of view that a higher amount of food will cause the sps to be darker with better growth. Living by the sea in Rio de Janeiro, I've got a huge access to natural water, loaded with zoo and phytoplankton, that I do enrich. IME a "dirtier"water is best to our corals in general, and I do agree that adding fish, though a encouraging thought, it's not the best idea.
 
I have a dsb, and im seeing pastel colors, however i in no way calim to be an expert. I think that with my 400w mh i was expirencing photo inhabition and that is why my growth rates are up now with t-5. I have nearly dubbled my bubble count on my calcium reactor in order to maintain my alk and calcium levels since switching. I think the coloring is a bit better with the t-5 but this could be due to the ati blue+ bulbs being more pleasing to my eye.
I am guilty of trying to do everything possible to keep the nutrients down as much as possible. I tend to only feed my fish every other day. I feed mysis, krill, nori, angel and brine cubes alternating trying not to feed any one thing too often. For coral food i have made a blender mush of krill, mysis and cyclopeeze. I have tried the pappone if I remember right( clam mussel shrimp oysters) however i can not get the size down to where I feel the corals can get it. I also feed DT's oyster eggs. However I generally only feed the corals once a week maybe twice.
With that said how often are you guys feeding. I think that anton is correct when he said there is more free floating "materal" in the ocean, of which the corals maybe using as food all day long rather than once or twice a week.
 
The reason I believe in the fish load is because of the food breakdown. Food goes through their digestive systems and breaks food down into easily digested forms for the corals to absorb and use without spending a lot of energy breaking down undigested food. Not to say that they can't but I believe it is easier for them. I run a BB system and don't have any pastel corals and I feed twice a day with around thirty fish. There is so much balance that needs to take place that I think we over complicate things sometimes. I mix up my food with Brine and Cyclopeze. I don't use a P04 remover but I also don't use a reactor. I know that in the wild there are a bountiful amount of fish living and swimming and eating around the reef. They release easily digested amino acid's and nutrients through detritus along with also feeding zooplankton and pods and other bacteria and so on. All of these things play a part in a nice cycle that gives our corals the needed nutrients from every angle.

This is just my opinion and experience.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9096035#post9096035 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flint&Eric
....nitrogen limitation

Exactly!!!!
This is from Eric B's food series


"Unfortunately, zooxanthellae don’t make much else besides sugar. The coral squeezes out what it can, but not much more ever results. In particular, nitrogen, once again, is a problem. It seems everyone on the reef is always scrambling for nitrogen,the substance needed to produce protein; proteins required for nematocysts, vitamins, tissue maintenance, injury repair, cell division, growth, gamete production, even the very toxins used to paralyze prey. Proteins are the ticket to growth and reproduction in zooxanthellae, as well as for coral polyps. Thus, it may come as little surprise that this great sugar fix provided by symbiotic algae comes up rather nutritionally short in the course of coral nutrition. To survive and, hopefully, thrive, corals need more than light. They need to swallow more than their symbiotic zooxanthellae."




I think that it may be possible that more fish could be feeding the zooxanthellae with ammonia, causing darker colors, thereby masking the real issue, witch is nitrogen limitation

Don't get me wrong, I still thing that a modest fish load, that is well fed is still usefull. That helps to let the corals 'snack' inbetween meals. But the use of a filter sock makes this ineffective IMO.

Anton
 
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