"pastel" colors vs. deep dark coloring

[glassbox-design]

I do not know the N levels of my system, just as I dont know the C levels. we also dont what cnp ratio we are shooting for. A lack of numbers is a serious problem, as is the reliability of the numbers we do have.

I do know that since adding specific nitrogen compounds I have an increase in growth and color. When adding pappone in addition I got even better growth. Take that for what its worth. After researching the topic thoroughly, knowing my system and having these results i feel as if my problem was nitrogen limitation. perhaps you see something else.

I do not have delbeeks book or know the specifics about that system you are talking about. I feel a major part of pastel colors is nitrogen limitation. If you feel differently, good for you. We are all entitled to our ideas. I suggest reading some literature on the subject besides delbeeks book. Do your own research and come to your own conclusions--it's a huge part of this hobby and what makes it fun!

eric

 

[stony_corals]

I hear what you are saying... I'm not trying to be an *** . I believe that pappone and other probiotic approaches are the future of the hobby (at least those of us that are into sps). But imho, it'd be great to understand whats really happening, but unfortunately, the accuracy of test kits do not allow us to know what's going on. There is hope, like the deltec/merck PO4 kit. I'm interested in hearing what Leonardo's dissolved organics test kit shows.

I could be totally wrong about DON, but it's the only data points that I've seen.

 

[Leonardo_]

Stony_corals, you're absolutely right. It's good to know what's really happening.
I will ask Salifert (Habib) for more information of the Organics-test. I hope to take a test with it very soon.

Leonardo

 

[Vanquish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9115144#post9115144 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Leonardo's Reef
Stony_corals, you're absolutely right. It's good to know what's really happening.
I will ask Salifert (Habib) for more information of the Organics-test. I hope to take a test with it very soon.

Leonardo

Hi Leonardo,

Im following this thread with great interest, please share your findings on the Salifert Organics testkit thanks!!

 

[stony_corals]

I checked the salifert website and there isn't a description as to what the organic test kit tests for.

 

[glassbox-design]

Stony, I just didnt want to start a big debate...people take things too personal here.

Check this info out... read the last sentence.

F. P. Wilkerson1, 2 and R. K. Trench1

(1) Department of Biological Sciences and Marine Science Institute, University of California at Santa Barbara, 93106 Santa Barbara, California, USA
(2) Present address: Allan Hancock Foundation, University of Southern California, University Park, 90089 Los Angeles, California, USA

Accepted: 18 July 1986

Communicated by R.S. Carney, Baton Rouge
Abstract Dissolved inorganic nitrogen flux was studied in the giant clam Tridacna gigas and the corals Acropora sp. and Tubastrea micrantha from the tropical reefs of Belau, Micronesia in 1983. T. micrantha, a nonsymbiotic coral, excreted ammonium. However, Tridacna gigas and Acropora sp., which contain symbiotic dinoflagellates (zooxanthellae) were able to take up both ammonium and nitrate. The requirement for a previous light exposure to sustain uptake by T. gigas is reported. The uptake kinetics of these symbioses are described and include the capacity of the zooxanthellae for surge uptake when given nutrient spikes.

My thinking for improved growth rates is...the pappone being the nutrient spikes allows the corals to "surge uptake" of parts of the pappone and the AA's...it also seems a short spell of raised trates may not be a bad thing...?

Eric

 

[stony_corals]

Who takes things personally ?!? No worries, we can learn from discussion. After all the threads can't all be 'which bulbs are the best?'

I think I've seen that one before. Not having used the pappone before, I'd say that dosing pappone would be a better 'nutrient spike' than the sparce feeding that many aquarists provide.

 

[MiddletonMark]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9114419#post9114419 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flint&Eric
I do not have delbeeks book or know the specifics about that system you are talking about.

FWIW, Delbeek is one of the pioneers of this hobby + stony coral keeping in general.

 

[jamesdawson]

Perhaps this will become standard reefkeeping equipment:lol:

http://images.google.com/url?q=http://www.laobserved.com/images/bassomatic.

 

[rigleautomotive]

i am not sure if this was mentioned but i found pastel colors to be in direct relation with high alk,11 or 12.same tank with lower alk 8.5 to 9.5 much darker and more color.

 

[stony_corals]

That is an interesting observation... any speculations as to why?

 

[rigleautomotive]

not sure but i brought it up a few months ago when i noticed my corals looked better when my cal reactor stopped working and my alk fell to 8.the needle valve plugged and i did not catch it right off.noticed my sps corals started to color up more each day .i toyed with the idea a bit until i finally removed the reactor and went back to my old method which is kalk and two part.ph is closer to natural sea water now and corals look better IMO.i now keep the alk at 8.5 to 9.5 AND CAL AT 425 TO 450,MG 1300 AS OPPOSED TO 10 TO 12 ALK cal 380 to 400 MG 1200 with reactor running.

 

[MiddletonMark]

Odd thing is that these pastel colors are often associated with Zeo + methods where Alk is kept intentionally quite low [often 7 dKh].
So while high Alk might be a cause, low alk + other stuff also can cause a very similar phenomenon.

 

[rigleautomotive]

it may be a negative symptom to alk stress.people may percieve it as health cause the colors please them.wheather the coral is actually healthier is another question

 

[MiddletonMark]

In most cases, I very much agree with your assessment.

 

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9116308#post9116308 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rigleautomotive
it may be a negative symptom to alk stress.people may percieve it as health cause the colors please them.wheather the coral is actually healthier is another question

I guess that is the real question isnt it! So often people say the corals may or may not be healthy. So what are we to base health on if not color, PE, growth? I know I have seen corals of all levels of these and do fine. Ive seen plenty of corals with poor PE and yet still grow quite well. Ive also seen plenty of corals look brown and grow well. Ive seen many corals that dont grow much at all yet have great color and PE. Its really pretty much impossible to determine coral health in this hobby it seems lol.

 

[glassbox-design]

FWIW, Delbeek is one of the pioneers of this hobby + stony coral keeping in general

I am well aware of who Charles is.

I have experimented with alk and ca and didnt see *much* change in color...more so in growth and PE. There was no uniform shift when altering alk...but certain corals were effected differently.

eric

 

[jamesdawson]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9115980#post9115980 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jamesdawson
Perhaps this will become standard reefkeeping equipment:lol:

http://images.google.com/url?q=http://www.laobserved.com/images/bassomatic.

Try that again.

]

James

James

 

[jpierson77]

I really appreciate all the info that has been posted here! I will add my alk sits right around 9 very consistantly. This is what frustrates me all my parameters seem to be right where most people run. Here is one thing I am doing going try this week. I just orederd an Ro/di. I live just below the Rockies and my towns water is the first out of the river. For the most part everyone here runs tap water. But im going to try ro/di water maybe this will help ill keep everyone posted.
One last thing that is somewhat obscure to me and one area I feel might vary greatly from most great sps tanks. I use a deep six hydrometer when Im mixing up my water. I have been told that these can be WAY off. Could it be possible that my salinity is WAY off and causing my pastel colors?

 

[rigleautomotive]

even refracts are off so i guess if you keep salinity on the low or high side of normal range and your hydrometer is off by a bit it can take you out of range.i dont have first hand info on that but imo it can effect tha way a coral colors up.i think rodi is the first equiptment any serious reefer should buy so unless you are testing tap water and it is less than 2 TDS i would get one right away.