seeding and cycleing need quick answers?

kimowen04

New member
i have a 10 gal nano going for about a yr! just got a good deal and have a 46gal with LR from and existing tank and LS from existing! the LS has lots dirties in it though. it had been stired up here and there and i triedto rockscape some and i got ALOT of skim out! but all my reading are vry high of off the scale on my strip test. nitrites nitrates alk and ph!! my 10 gal has a 30gal HOB filter with floss some carbon and a built in SKIMMEr! could i take out the LR and LS from my established nano and put it in my new 46 gal to help cycle WHILE. . i keep my 1 clwn, abalone, 2 hermits in the nano w just a bare bottom and live and do well while my 46 cycles i could add some LR rubble to the tank somewhat maybe to help w biological filtration too??? pls help i would like to cycle the tank as quick as it will but dnt want to sacrafice ne of my livestock!! pls let me know what u think??


my 46 is. . HOB skimmer 1 pwr head 2 96 watt coralife compac floresent. with a decent sand bed(very dirty) like 3-4'' sand bed! should i remove some when and if i add my 20lbs of LS to the tank??
 
Just leave your nano alone.

The new tank is likely filled with plenty of organic matter and a very large bacteria population already. Adding more rock or sand won't help, you need to let it settle in and balance out at this point. If anything, the 46 sounds TOO dirty - water changes, heavy skimming/filtering, etc would help ensure you don't have nutrient problems down the road. if there's gunk in the rocks/sand, suck it out when you do water changes.
 

thegrun

Team RC
You should only remove a small amount of the LR from the existing tank or it will likely crash (but whatever you move over will help shorten the cycle in the new tank). I would recommend getting new sand; the old stuff seems to be a likely source of most of your water problems. If you cannot afford new sand, clean it again. I put about a 1/2 gallon at a time in a 5 gallon bucket and blast it with a garden hose until the water runs clear. This will kill off the bacteria in the sand bed, but it is important to get it clean. Phosphates get trapped in old sand and you may never get them completely out, which is why I would just replace it all.
 

kimowen04

New member
will this help remove the waste? should i keep stirring up the sand now and then and letting allthe yuck and clowdieness clowd the water and let the skimmer go to town to help remove the dirty stuff from my sand bed? will it wont hurt ne thing as far as the cycle goes RIGHT?? and then maybe just take a LITTLE of the sand and give it a GOOD cleaning taking care of the yuck and unfortunately killing th good bacteria
 
There's more than enough bacteria in that new tank to sustain life. The problem is, there's TOO much waste. To get things in balance, you DON'T need to grow a bigger bacteria population, you need to process the excess waste. Skimming, water changes, new sand instead of the gunky old sand - all that will help.

Again, IMHO, leave your nano alone until you're ready to move livestock. No need to traumatize that tank.
 

wooden_reefer

New member
but all my reading are vry high of off the scale on my strip test. nitrites nitrates alk and ph!!

Nitrite!

If nitrite is high there is a problem. Did you also check ammonia?

In an established tank without increase of bioload, nitrite should be zero.

Yes, in an established tank there should not be an issue with cycling. The tank should have been cycled and equilbirum between nitrifying bacteria and bioload should have been reached.
 

wooden_reefer

New member
while my 46 cycles i could add some LR rubble to the tank somewhat maybe to help w biological filtration too??? pls help i would like to cycle the tank as quick as it will but dnt want to sacrafice ne of my livestock!! pls let me know what u think??

May be you have cleaned the tank too much and so removed too much nitrification bacteria attached to whatever dirt you removed. The dirtier an established tank, the lower fraction of total bacteria actually live on the medium of one's design, such as LR.

At this stage, if you indeed have ammonia and nitrite (test again, I am not convinced), you need to act. Ammonia cannot be accepted. May be some Amquel or Prime now.

Adding uncycled LR into the tank now likely won't help; few tanks are abolutely low on mediun of filteration. Mostly, insufficient nitrification is due to insufficient establishment of bacteria on quite available medium.

Likely, you may want to cycle some LR separately in another container using bacteria seed and artificial source of ammonia, then transfer the cycled medium to DT. Also, you may be achieving the same by using Amquel in DT for a week and waiting it out. Still, cycling separately is an insurance.
 
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kimowen04

New member
May be you have cleaned the tank too much and so removed too much nitrification bacteria attached to whatever dirt you removed. The dirtier an established tank, the lower fraction of total bacteria actually live on the medium of one's design, such as LR.

At this stage, if you indeed have ammonia and nitrite (test again, I am not convinced), you need to act. Ammonia cannot be accepted. May be some Amquel or Prime now.

Adding uncycled LR into the tank now likely won't help; few tanks are abolutely low on mediun of filteration. Mostly, insufficient nitrification is due to insufficient establishment of bacteria on quite available medium.

Likely, you may want to cycle some LR separately in another container using bacteria seed and artificial source of ammonia, then transfer the cycled medium to DT. Also, you may be achieving the same by using Amquel in DT for a week and waiting it out. Still, cycling separately is an insurance.

DT??? the tank sand is very dirty i keep a powerhead at the bottom to keep settleing dirt circulating so my skimmer and my other filter w a skimmer will pick it up! i added some carbon and some like home made floss with mesh from a plastic dish scrubber. in the big HOB skimmer i just added an old small HOB cartridge to it and put in some floss. im not getting much skim and the water is very merky, but it seems that its not settleing so much on the bottom unless its under the rock? ill do a test in a min i just bought a better test kit!!
 

kimowen04

New member
its11/28/09 i just tested again im a li confused?

ammonia 0
nitrite .25
ph 8.2
nitrates 80!!!

so i had expected if my ammonia was down for now my trites to rise higher or at least stay the same? and my nitrates stay the same or be slightly higher. but my trites are lower and my ammoniaZero and my nitrates are high at 80 not my nitrites? i was thinking the cycle was amonia and the bacteria turns it to nitrite and it rises high then starts to go down and the nitrates go up and do a water change and then it b cycled?? doi have this wrong i always thought that was bout it?
 

bertoni

Premium Member
The nitrite is not toxic and won't harm anything. Neither will the nitrate, and a lot of that might actually be due to nitrite, which confuses nitrate test kits. You might try some water changes.

Stirring the sand will release nutrients from it, so I'd stop doing that.

I might do some water changes, maybe 20%, to help remove secondary metabolites.
 

kimowen04

New member
i have stopped stiring the sand awhile back. do u think i should wait to do a water change because ill need to do another one later? or no? just to save money with water changes. BTW does ne kno what kind of cheap tubing pl use for water changes as a siphon besides spending dumb money on a giant one??
 

bertoni

Premium Member
Sorry, I've been traveling. I wouldn't bother with more water changes now unless the animals were looking sickly. I use clear plastic tubing from Home Depot for doing water changes.
 

wooden_reefer

New member
The nitrite is not toxic and won't harm anything. Neither will the nitrate, and a lot of that might actually be due to nitrite, which confuses nitrate test kits. You might try some water changes.

Stirring the sand will release nutrients from it, so I'd stop doing that.

I might do some water changes, maybe 20%, to help remove secondary metabolites.

Nitrite itself may not be very toxic, but its presence is a concern that there is problem with nitrification. There may even be intermittent presence of ammonia.
 

kimowen04

New member
btw with the last post with my tests i had some diatoms popping up and looks like some kinda red or brown hair type alga ahh. when would it be safe to add my abalone snail so that he wont dye but maybe help my tank or would he??
 

kimowen04

New member
ok update!! lots more diatoms and some red alga like hairy. .

nitrites ZERO WOOP
nitrates 20 getting better. .
ammonia ZERO staying good!!



wooden reefer. .. are you saying that something is wrong with my process?? by my tests and my gut things seem to be going well?? the contradicting advice i think has gotten me confused?
 

kimowen04

New member
ok so should i do my water change at this point! my gut says ITS TIME! just my nitrates are a bit high but NOT supper extreme. im thinking itl take it down quite a bit! then give it another day or two and then add my nano tank to it?? what do u guys think this is my critical point i dont wanna do it to early and then need another wc in a week??
 
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