sell me on LEDS!
- Thread starter kissman
- Start date
Khemul
New member
That is very true. The thing with MH and T5's though is that it is extremely mature technology. It is rather hard to screw it up at the high-end. The technology has been worked out to the point where a company needs to be rather cheap/lazy (*cough* Odyssea *cough*) to screw it up. Even the mid-range T5 and MH get few complaints.
But yes, that is a major thing for LEDs to overcome. T5's and MH are so stable and reliable that all one needs to do is connect the right bulb strength with the tank size and they are done. Very little room for mistake or quality issues. Not so much with LEDs.
CHSUB
"Certified Hobby Expert"
another problem with LEDs is the lack of success with acropora corals like Acropora monticulosa, Acropora gemmifera, Acropora hyacinthus, and many others....sure led users will always chime in and say, "my sps' do great under leds." What kind of sps'?????
look at Ron Reefman's tank, and yes it is a very nice tank filled with lps', sps', and leathers but the sps' are not acropora but mostly Seriatopora and Montipora, which i too had success with using LEDs. lets see those blue Acropora echinata under LEDs???? you won't because they don't exist!!!!
look at Ron Reefman's tank, and yes it is a very nice tank filled with lps', sps', and leathers but the sps' are not acropora but mostly Seriatopora and Montipora, which i too had success with using LEDs. lets see those blue Acropora echinata under LEDs???? you won't because they don't exist!!!!
Khemul
New member
It wouldn't matter if there is. Nothing will change CHSUB's mind. He killed off a bunch of SPS and is convinced that LEDs did it (his build thread points to all kinds of other potential reasons, but that won't deter him from insisting it was only the LEDs). So now he feels this is proof that ALL LED fixtures are the same and will kill SPS.
The lesson to learn from CHSUB is that if you put 5 Radions over your tank, acclimate your corals.
The lesson to learn from CHSUB is that if you put 5 Radions over your tank, acclimate your corals.
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CHSUB
"Certified Hobby Expert"
just for the sake of accuracy it was Pacific Sun Leds and not Radions....but in retrospect, i think Radions are better becauce the leds are in a tight cluster and have less red spectum....now my acro's are growing and coloring up beautifully under MH/t5....i wish someone would have given me the real story on LEDs before i spent big $ on them.....
gcarroll
Active member
Why not? I do and so do many of the best reef tanks in the country.
gcarroll
Active member
Do you beleive in magic? If not better start! I just found your mermaid. Is your heart racing?:jester:
More LED Acro growing success can be found here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2256865
AquaTDV
Member
I've run MHs for the last 15 years and I never thought I would switch. I figured LEDs were the next "fad" when they came out. Boy was I wrong.... I finally saw an SPS tank that was properly lit with LEDs, that was all the proof I needed. Over the next few months I started the slow transition to Reefbreeder LEDs, buying one fixture a month just incase I didn't like it or the coral started showing signs of stess. Now I am 100% LEDs and I don't think I will ever go back. The colors are just too amazing. I also have a DIY LEP/LED fixture I've been running since Feb. and that one is a little harder to get a handle on. So far many of the corals reject the spectrum, while others turn freakish colors.
Khemul
New member
What real story?
You keep claiming all over these forums that LEDs killed your corals over the course of 8 months. Looks like from your build thread, you were chasing parameters those 8 months, mainly nitrates. Which means that your system wasn't entirely stable. Because every time you tried to force your nitrates down you would be causing small changes that could have thrown things off for the sensitive corals in your tank. Add to that the fact you were hitting unacclimated corals with quite a bit of light, even at 65%.
And then take note of what you did to get to where you are now. You changed to MH/T5, you upgraded your flow and you let the tank stabilize. So you lowered the lighting even further, increased flow and stabilized the tank. The problem is that you had too many things going on to really say for sure it was the lights. It could have been. It could have also been any one of the other problems you were having. No one can say for sure now.
Ron Reefman
Active member
Just to be absolutely clear here, I didn't say IO salt is bad. I just said because Georgia Aquarium uses it, doesn't mean we all should. I have, but I've found others that fit my needs better.
CHSUB has just gone out to look for a new '10 reasons my coral died' T-shirt. :lolspin:
CHSUB
"Certified Hobby Expert"
you're correct and all true....however, there are many that have had the same experience i had with leds. shouldn't the makers of leds know more about their own lights and how to run them? why do most users run at such a low power when the tank here with the excellent colors runs his radion @ 100%? it's up to us to help other reefers know about the pitfalls of led lighting. the manufacturers are just trying to make $. Pacific Sun the led i owned have, after 1 year, a new led array. i wasted big $ on leds and i know others who have also. i think it does a disservise to other reefers to say," my sps' do great under leds", when so many have proof to the contrary.
CHSUB
"Certified Hobby Expert"
actually i'm watching the Boston Bruins.....:bigeyes:
michaellee64
New member
So what should we do... Lie and say that LED's are not the way to go? My SPS's grow just as well if not better under my LED's as they did under my 14K Radion MH's. And they do a whole lot better than they did under my T5's! I had a Hawkins Blue Echinata that exploded in growth, after it barely grew being under t5's for 1 1/2 years. I would post a pic, but lost it, due to being stung my a Hydnofora. I have LED's on 3 DT's, which contain Softies, LPS's and SPS's.... All are doing fantastic! So in short, as LED's evolve and more people are learning that you can't just throw them over your tank at 100% without properly acclimating your corals to the higher PAR, we are hearing about more success stories with them. I for one will never go back to MH or T5's!
Mark
Premium Member
At this time LED should be considered 'expert only'. While appearing dimmer to the human eye, they can burn corals with excessive PUR. And being a very direction light with minimal refraction, they create excessive shading. All of the obstacles can be overcome by an inquisitive and experimental reefer, and eventually manufacturers will make them dumb-proof.
Nevertheless, I don't think the sps I grow under LED are sickly once I addressed the obstacles...
The ice fire echinata was grown out from a single polyp. Yup, a single polyp! We're talking about starting with millimeters.
Nevertheless, I don't think the sps I grow under LED are sickly once I addressed the obstacles...
The ice fire echinata was grown out from a single polyp. Yup, a single polyp! We're talking about starting with millimeters.
Actually, you WANT a lot of red. The photosynthetic peaks of chlorophyll A are in the 660nm range, or red.
Ron Reefman
Active member
Sorry about your Bruins. They are putting up a good fight, but I think the Blackhawks are just like led lights, and will win out in the end. But it may take 7 games just like it did against the Red Wings.
There is a red peak, I've got no argument there, but most of the light is blue, from 400nm to 480nm. And I don't want 'a lot of red' as that makes my tank look purple rather than the slight tint of blue that I want.
wildman926
Active member
Nice pics GCarroll and Mark.
Any info on the fixtures used?
Any info on the fixtures used?
I had T5 for years and LOVED them. I did not love replacing 8 $30 bulbs every 9 months.
LED is the future, sorry skeptics... it's more efficient, cooler-running, and recently offers broader spectrum options. Soon, I would venture to guess that LEDs will be everywhere, in homes, in industry, and on tanks. They are vastly more efficient lights in a number of ways.
LEDs are HIGHLY sensitive though. User error or cheap products are the reason for the majority of people's problems. I have no doubt that people who switched to AI, for example, from MH/T5, and claim these "horror stories," did in fact fry their corals from either lack of proper acclimation, underestimating the PAR, or dialing them down way too far out of fear.
With other light technologies you simply set and forget. With LEDs, you have to monitor, adjust, and be very aware of what you are doing. Simple as that. They aren't for beginners, and they aren't for people who expect to just plug them in and go. We've all seen that LEDs are more than capable of producing incredible results, it's a proven technology, whether people like to admit it or not.
But honestly, what you do is up to you. Get them, don't get them. Ultimately your choice.
LED is the future, sorry skeptics... it's more efficient, cooler-running, and recently offers broader spectrum options. Soon, I would venture to guess that LEDs will be everywhere, in homes, in industry, and on tanks. They are vastly more efficient lights in a number of ways.
LEDs are HIGHLY sensitive though. User error or cheap products are the reason for the majority of people's problems. I have no doubt that people who switched to AI, for example, from MH/T5, and claim these "horror stories," did in fact fry their corals from either lack of proper acclimation, underestimating the PAR, or dialing them down way too far out of fear.
With other light technologies you simply set and forget. With LEDs, you have to monitor, adjust, and be very aware of what you are doing. Simple as that. They aren't for beginners, and they aren't for people who expect to just plug them in and go. We've all seen that LEDs are more than capable of producing incredible results, it's a proven technology, whether people like to admit it or not.
But honestly, what you do is up to you. Get them, don't get them. Ultimately your choice.
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