Serious Disscussion of Zoanthids Growth

[giantbicycle]

Wow , I was shocked and indeed was Greated with lots of Wonderful response in this discussion, I would really like to thank eveyone for participating actively in this thread.Exp, Thoes who are typing at work (Jeremy) and spending tiime Explaning to make us understand, and A pic,diagram really Helps a million .

This is an ongoing discussion so i would like to continue encouraging eveyone to participate in it..

Start Observing Zooanthids today and Share it with us. I will be observing mine for another few days or so b4 sharing ...


Dont Stop....

Cheers: Edwan

 

[giantbicycle]

HMm, it seems that i presume that the BEST way of the (Extreme Growth ratre ) is by fragging? as this topic is being discussed mainly...

Wad about the others Ways, like wad the other reefer have mention ?

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Great info CoralNutz.

Mucho

 

[BrianPlankis]

I have been tracking actual counts of polyps of some of my zoas. I'll try to remember to look at my notes tonight to see. Some grow like crazy, others haven't put out a new polyp in 3 months!

Brian

 

[giantbicycle]

As observations, i Think i need to observe them over a number of colonies , but not just a few frags thou.

Seems like dirty water is one of the point too for the sprut of growth as it is a nutrients loaded water, Am i right?

 

[jay24k]

It should also be noted when you frag a polyp, try to do it as quick as possible. Some polyps while they look huge will shrink down fast if you don't slice through it as fast as you can. I fragged my PPE for a buddy and the stalk was sort of thick. As soon as that first cut was made, it shrunk by half.

My fragging has yielded different results. What I do is this:
Place the colony out of water and do a quick slice on the base of the polyp. Dab the bottom dry. Get a nice dry rock and put a little dab of glue. I make sure the entire base of the polyp is in glue but don't overdo it. I let it sit for about 20 seconds and then place it in a bowl of saltwater for about 5 minutes. I then place it in my tank in a low spot with decent flow. I haven't lost one frag yet.

I've never felt superglue heat up though when I glue my fingers down. What is the degree difference it causes?

 

[giantbicycle]

hey, i think we cant feel the tempt differences as the zooanthids can feel it..think its slight thou, but can burnt or shocked the zoos..Its just like calcium grains or salt grains which is warm to the touch.

 

[giantbicycle]

It seems that most of the zoo's reefer here uses fragging as the method to sprut the growth rate

I had a friend who has frags of zoos turning into colonies at a fast rate which causes it to be a nuisences. and not only one of them happen this maner...Its the whole tank of zoos growing this way..and the idea here is that , he did not even frag ...

so i wont agree that fragging is the only Cause of speeding zoos growth rates.

:strooper:

 

[CoralNutz]

I don't really know, not a Dr. of any sorts. But I would think that unless something is warmer than your body temp (98.something degrees) that it wouldn't really "feel warm".... I don't know though. Just an idea that I was thinking.

 

[CoralNutz]

Edwan.... I think it's not apples and apples.. Subdividing colonies (fragging them) to get a highter over all polyp/month count really is worthless unless your goal is to grow lots of frags for trading or selling. If you have a display tank with, which is what most are interested in, it's a whole different topic really. (wich was the original topic I think, sorry if I hijacked at all )

I think there are other aspects to look at too. Verticle growth rate vs. horizontal growth rate? If the zoas are growing up a rock at a verticle angle vs. if they are growing on a flat horizontal outward pattern. How will that effect growth?

Another variable that I can see making a big difference is the surface of the rock that you are trying to get them to grow accros. I would think that if the mat had to grow across a rock that was full of pits and was very pourus, it might take longer to grow across than it would if was on a flat, smooth surface. Just thinking that the zoanthids would have to generate more tissue to fill in the pourus cracks and whatnot. Again, this isn't even something I have tried or looked into. Just some other ideas I am tossing around.

Another thing a couple other coral farmers and I have talked about was light cycles. Someone is trying this now, can't remember who, and I also plan on doing some experimenting once I get a more controlled system that will be able to accomodate this. The thought is, will zoas grow faster if they have say like instead of 1, 12:12 light cycel per day. They would have a 6 on, 6 off, 6 on, 6 off light cycle every day. Don't know if it will do anything, just something that a couple of us thinks might lead to something. I have a hunch that it's going to improve growth rates a lot. It's just a hunch though, nothing to back that up. That experiment is TOP on my list of things to do, but I want to have a more controlled environement before I even start so I can come closer to concluding that they new growth is due to light cycles rather than some other parameter that I dind't have enough controll over. I think this is going to have to be at least 6 months min. project, probably a full year, before I would be able to have enough growth and data to actuallly get some good conclusions.

anyway, enough rambling again... need to get some work done.

 

[BradL.]

During the first few months colonies do not grow very fast. After a period of about six months I notice that the individual Zoanthids start to reproduce and the colony starts to spread.

 

[giantbicycle]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6337266#post6337266 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CoralNutz
Edwan.... I think it's not apples and apples.. Subdividing colonies (fragging them) to get a highter over all polyp/month count really is worthless unless your goal is to grow lots of frags for trading or selling. If you have a display tank with, which is what most are interested in, it's a whole different topic really. (wich was the original topic I think, sorry if I hijacked at all )

I think there are other aspects to look at too. Verticle growth rate vs. horizontal growth rate? If the zoas are growing up a rock at a verticle angle vs. if they are growing on a flat horizontal outward pattern. How will that effect growth?

Another variable that I can see making a big difference is the surface of the rock that you are trying to get them to grow accros. I would think that if the mat had to grow across a rock that was full of pits and was very pourus, it might take longer to grow across than it would if was on a flat, smooth surface. Just thinking that the zoanthids would have to generate more tissue to fill in the pourus cracks and whatnot. Again, this isn't even something I have tried or looked into. Just some other ideas I am tossing around.

Another thing a couple other coral farmers and I have talked about was light cycles. Someone is trying this now, can't remember who, and I also plan on doing some experimenting once I get a more controlled system that will be able to accomodate this. The thought is, will zoas grow faster if they have say like instead of 1, 12:12 light cycel per day. They would have a 6 on, 6 off, 6 on, 6 off light cycle every day. Don't know if it will do anything, just something that a couple of us thinks might lead to something. I have a hunch that it's going to improve growth rates a lot. It's just a hunch though, nothing to back that up. That experiment is TOP on my list of things to do, but I want to have a more controlled environement before I even start so I can come closer to concluding that they new growth is due to light cycles rather than some other parameter that I dind't have enough controll over. I think this is going to have to be at least 6 months min. project, probably a full year, before I would be able to have enough growth and data to actuallly get some good conclusions.

anyway, enough rambling again... need to get some work done.

Yes ,jeremy,

I will be awaiting more and looking into more inputs from you to come after you have conclude about the light cycle changes which affect the growth rates , do let me know as i am keen to grow my frags fast thou....


Keep us updated if there is any slightest info sighted...

 

[tangey]

I dont know if this will help or not but i got a frag of zoas 3 months ago. the first month i recorded 3 polyps the next month6. now in december i am seeing a new zoa pop up almost everyday. These are under PC's in my 55 gallon tank.

 

[giantbicycle]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6342109#post6342109 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tangey
I dont know if this will help or not but i got a frag of zoas 3 months ago. the first month i recorded 3 polyps the next month6. now in december i am seeing a new zoa pop up almost everyday. These are under PC's in my 55 gallon tank.

Thanks for the input.keep further track of it

 

[giantbicycle]

Any Latest Input for sharing???



Wad about those who have Prop tank growing Zoos ??

Pls share..Thanks

 

[Gili]

Good stuff here - thought id give my 50c:

I didnt witness any zoa or paly growth [except for those yellow polyps which are going nuts], in my tank until i started feeding regularly.. I started feeding twice a week sbout month ago and the palys towards the top [which were bleached terribly as hitchhikers] have now coloured up alot more and have added about 30%-40% to their colony. A couple of other palys in the middle have gone from 2 to 6 in about a month too. My zoas seem to grow slower but also, in the last month have seemed to jump into action with regular feeding, with a couple of copper coloured zoas becoming 4 [1 seemed to dissapear before they split though..] and my green and blue zoas have little ones appearing more visibly towards the edge of the colony. I do think that light paid the most part in it but i was surprised that growth only seemed to start upon feeding.. The tank is approx 4mths old

 

[giantbicycle]

Thanks GIlI for the Input.... Yes, do agree that strong light is the fuel for zooanthids... exp low Kelvin lugths which are high in PAR.

 

[CoralNutz]

I don't kow about too strong of light. I have raised the lights off my frag tanks a few more inches and I'll have to wait to see if I see any difference. They do open up nicer now though.

 

[Cellenzweig]

That can only be proven through physical observation, which is what I did earlier this year. I went 3 weeks without feeding and changed nothing else in my tank. Did my corals surive, yes. Did they appear healthy, yes. For the next 3 weeks, I fed a combination of Frozen Cyclop eez, ESV's Spray Dried Marine Phyto Plankton and Oyster Eggs. I focused on 5 colonies in one area as I did when I didn't fed for 3 weeks. The one thing I noticed was a healthier looking more full bodied physical appearance. Of the 5 colonies, I noticed 7 new polyps during the 3 week period without feeding. I had 13 new polyps total during the weeks I did feed.

A couple companies in Canada (Canadian Reef which no longer exists and Reef Crew) did an experiment on the growth rates of various corals in fed vs non-fed tanks. They found that zoanthids didn't multiply as fast in the fed tank, but they did look much healthier. These results may not be perfect, as there are other factors to take into account (ie fed tank has some light blocked by suspended food.), but I would think they have some relevance.

If anyone is interested in their results, they are available here:
http://www.reefcrew.bionomicsolutions.com/Assets/Html/Research/Canadian_Reef/introduction.htm

 

[giantbicycle]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6437654#post6437654 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CoralNutz
I don't kow about too strong of light. I have raised the lights off my frag tanks a few more inches and I'll have to wait to see if I see any difference. They do open up nicer now though.

Any updates CoralNutz