Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

Just wanted to say thank you to Beananimal!! This thread not only rocks, but made my life easier. Lots of reading, but I think it paid off... Pic of my setup thus far. Still waiting for the acrylic to show up for the coast to coast overflow.

699dab57.jpg~original

7bcb9d39.jpg~original

f7fe5d74.jpg~original


I already ahve 2 gate valves on my current tank. I will take them off and finish the plumbing when I get the old tank torn apart.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have my overflow nicely tuned and love it.

But am having problems with my two clownfish. They seem to like to take the ride to my sump...

Anyone designed or have a good idea for a fish blocker on their overflow?
 
Egg crate has been popular. I like the idea of a piece of glass over the overflow. Rest the corners on rubber feet so that the bottom of the glass is a little above water level. I think is the way it is done.
 
Just my humble opinion/experience:

You will not have a problem with fish going over the overflow UNLESSS - they are sick, or there is aggression. Foregoing illness- either they are chasing each other, or someone is chasing them....??
T
 
I've had a clown like to ride my drain in the past. It was the only fish in the tank. I swear I could hear the clown yelling "weeeeeeeeeeeee" each time it did it. So I figured this was something clowns did. This same clown also liked to sleep on top of my K1. That was weird too. I would vote for glass cover to cover overflow. I would also use a smoked glass to keep light penetration to a minimum.
 
update...The tank is still getting setup. The sump is mixing new saltwater. You never seem to have enough when swapping tanks

the overflow setup:
579a5c20.jpg~original

e4516448.jpg~original

5957de09.jpg~original
 
Last edited by a moderator:
8mpg, your setup looks awesome! Very similar layout to mine but larger (I'm setting up a 20H). I notice you cut your back glass piece a quarter inch too big--I did the same thing!
See picture in my album--sorry I'm having trouble copying the URL on my phone...

I am getting close as well--hope to paint the standpipes and finish the under tank plumbing tomorrow. Will post a pic or two here at that point.
 
Last edited:
cooper13 said:
8mpg, your setup looks awesome! Very similar layout to mine but larger (I'm setting up a 20H). I notice you cut your back glass piece a quarter inch too big--I did the same thing!
See picture in my album--sorry I'm having trouble copying the URL on my phone...

I am getting close as well--hope to paint the standpipes and finish the under tank plumbing tomorrow. Will post a pic or two here at that point.
Click to expand...

LOL...the old man at the glass shop just didnt want to listen. Ah well, at least it works. I had a small pinhole leak in the back right corner of the overflow but didnt notice it until the overflow was full full. If I were you, Id suggest a full dry (well wet) run before putting the tank in its final spot. I had to have the pump on and draining properly to get the leak.

Id also suggest using a good sealant like RTV108. Its available at Grainger for $10 a tube. Well worth the investment



So, now the system is up and running. I never really understood how the system worked until I got it running. So if anyone gets any confusion or anything when setting it up and getting it running, it works like this:

THe main siphon drain pulls most of the water. Close the ball valve all the way and slow (very slowly) open the valve over a few minutes. It takes a few minutes for the tank to pull the air out of the main drain and be able to do a full siphon.

The open channel (one with the airline) is barely used for overflow if the siphon isnt picking it all up. The airline level is basically where the overflow box water level will be. When the water gets higher than it, the pipe stops sucking air and will slowly become a full siphon as backup to the main drain until it becomes a full siphon. You want to set the airline level below the emergency drain level

When setting the system up for the first time, all the water will flow into the emergency drain (which should be wide open). Its going to make a lot of noise. When this is happening, the open channel air line should be submerged already allowing it to try and create a full siphon. The main drain should already be trying to become a full siphon. This is where you slowly crack open the valve on the main drain. If its too far open, it wont become a full siphon. The main drain line needs to stack up a solid water column in the pipe. Slowly open it until it starts draining well. There will be tweaking until you get it just right. You want the water level to stay level and not fluctuate up or down in the overflow.

Then, time to adjust the open channel. Adjust it slowly until the water level in the overflow comes down to below the airline. Once that happens, it will suck air, and then flow little to no water. This line needs to be a full siphon until the main drain is fixed. You want the water level to go down very slowly when adjusting the open channel line.

Then theoretically, its good to go. Shut off the pump until the tank isnt draining at all (to simulate power outage). Then restart the pump. If it's set right, it will take 2-4 minutes for the overflow to right itself, purge the air, and bring the water level back down and become silent.


BEANANIMAL METHOD ROCKS!!!!!!
 
8mpg said:
LOL...the old man at the glass shop just didnt want to listen. Ah well, at least it works. I had a small pinhole leak in the back right corner of the overflow but didnt notice it until the overflow was full full. If I were you, Id suggest a full dry (well wet) run before putting the tank in its final spot. I had to have the pump on and draining properly to get the leak.

Id also suggest using a good sealant like RTV108. Its available at Grainger for $10 a tube. Well worth the investment



So, now the system is up and running. I never really understood how the system worked until I got it running. So if anyone gets any confusion or anything when setting it up and getting it running, it works like this:

THe main siphon drain pulls most of the water. Close the ball valve all the way and slow (very slowly) open the valve over a few minutes. It takes a few minutes for the tank to pull the air out of the main drain and be able to do a full siphon.

There should never be a need to close the siphon valve completely-- or even a little, to get the siphon to start. If the system is designed correctly, though the siphon will not start immediately, the siphon will self start with no intervention-- though the emergency standpipe may kick in, and the open channel will make a racket, until air in the siphon line is purged. If the siphon fails to start, it is usually due to one of two problems: Air is entering the siphon line, or the drain line outlet is too deep in the sump.

 The open channel (one with the airline) is barely used for overflow if the siphon isnt picking it all up. The airline level is basically where the overflow box water level will be. When the water gets higher than it, the pipe stops sucking air and will slowly become a full siphon as backup to the main drain until it becomes a full siphon. You want to set the airline level below the emergency drain level

The open channel, by design-- and proper adjustment of the system, will always have flow in it. It is not an "if": it is a will.

The airline will be set to trip the open channel at the "critical" (BA) water level in the over flow box, if the EMERGENCY drain, is for some reason not handling the flow due to a blockage in the siphon line. The Dry Emergency is your primary fail safe, the trip of the open channel is the "last chance" fail safe, before flooding.

When setting the system up for the first time, all the water will flow into the emergency drain (which should be wide open). (The open channel is not the emergency it is the OPEN CHANNEL) Its going to make a lot of noise. When this is happening, the open channel air line should be submerged already allowing it to try and create a full siphon. (The airline should never be submerged, unless the water level is critical, and a further rise will result in a flood) The main drain should already be trying to become a full siphon. This is where you slowly crack open the valve on the main drain. (The valve should be full open, at start up.) If its too far open, it wont become a full siphon. (This issue is usually caused by a flaw in the design, and should be corrected before putting the system to use.) The main drain line needs to stack up a solid water column in the pipe. Slowly open it until it starts draining well. There will be tweaking until you get it just right. You want the water level to stay level and not fluctuate up or down in the overflow.

At start up the valve should be full open, once the system settles (which it will if designed properly) this valve is closed slightly, to adjust the water level in the over flow box, so the siphon line does not suck air. This is the one and only function of a valve in this drain system.

Then, time to adjust the open channel. Adjust it slowly until the water level in the overflow comes down to below the airline. Once that happens, it will suck air, and then flow little to no water. This line needs to be a full siphon until the main drain is fixed. You want the water level to go down very slowly when adjusting the open channel line.

The water level in the overflow box is controlled by the valve on the siphon line. A valve is not only unecessary on the open channel, if there is one, it should be left wide open!

Then theoretically, its good to go. Shut off the pump until the tank isnt draining at all (to simulate power outage). Then restart the pump. If it's set right, it will take 2-4 minutes for the overflow to right itself, purge the air, and bring the water level back down and become silent.


BEANANIMAL METHOD ROCKS!!!!!!
Click to expand...


If there is ever any confusion about how this system works, go back to the first page of the original thread where BeanAnimal clearly describes the operation of the system. If you have further questions regarding the operation of this system, read the rest of the thread, and/or ask! Don't fire this system and find out you don't know how it is supposed to work, or how to adjust it! This is called "suffering in silence" and worst case you will have water all over the floor!


8mpg: In the photos above, your emergency standpipe is too low! And according to your description, the airline is too low, and as far as I am concerned your overflow box is too shallow. I have posted dimensions for this type of system, in this thread (I believe) and I was not just throwing numbers around. Normal operating water level should be just above the elbows-- if the system is adjusted properly. The inlet to the DRY EMERGENCY, should be just above this, and the airline trigger should be above the dry emergency inlet, set just below the maximum safe water level.


Either remove the valve from the open channel OR open it all the way-- and don't close it. You back up the flow in the open channel, and you are BEGGING for a flood: The open channel has to handle the flow from TWO standpipes in a worst case scenario: The siphon AND the dry emergency, plugged! The open channel will easily do it, unless you choke it with a valve.

Don't suffer in silence, and try to find your way in the dark. There are a couple here that DO know how this system should be setup, and adjusted. However, the answers are all on the first couple of pages of the original thread. As with numerous other topics, there are more than one way to do things, but usually only one is right. Copy the prototype, and you eliminate 99% of the problems.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1310585&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Don't suffer in silence! I am very direct, but my goal is to help. ASK. Iffin ya don't like my directness ;), say "Hey Bean, how do I adjust this?" I will usually let Bean answer. :)

Jim
 
Last edited:
I reread the first post and yep uncle has it right. However, I always thought the open was the secondary back up and the emergency was the third. Meaning the open channel would create a siphon before the emergency took on water. I don't have a tank I can set up this way, but my next will probably do this.

I can not see any advantage or disdvantage to either as long as both can create the backups. Am I missing something?
 
uncleof6 said:
If there is ever any confusion about how this system works, go back to the first page of the original thread where BeanAnimal clearly describes the operation of the system. If you have further questions regarding the operation of this system, read the rest of the thread, and/or ask! Don't fire this system and find out you don't know how it is supposed to work, or how to adjust it! This is called "suffering in silence" and worst case you will have water all over the floor!


8mpg: In the photos above, your emergency standpipe is too low! And according to your description, the airline is too low, and as far as I am concerned your overflow box is too shallow. I have posted dimensions for this type of system, in this thread (I believe) and I was not just throwing numbers around. Normal operating water level should be just above the elbows-- if the system is adjusted properly. The inlet to the DRY EMERGENCY, should be just above this, and the airline trigger should be above the dry emergency inlet, set just below the maximum safe water level.


Either remove the valve from the open channel OR open it all the way-- and don't close it. You back up the flow in the open channel, and you are BEGGING for a flood: The open channel has to handle the flow from TWO standpipes in a worst case scenario: The siphon AND the dry emergency, plugged! The open channel will easily do it, unless you choke it with a valve.

Don't suffer in silence, and try to find your way in the dark. There are a couple here that DO know how this system should be setup, and adjusted. However, the answers are all on the first couple of pages of the original thread. As with numerous other topics, there are more than one way to do things, but usually only one is right. Copy the prototype, and you eliminate 99% of the problems.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1310585&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Don't suffer in silence! I am very direct, but my goal is to help. ASK. Iffin ya don't like my directness ;), say "Hey Bean, how do I adjust this?" I will usually let Bean answer. :)

Jim
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Jim.. I really appreciate it. I guess this just goes to show even more that I didnt quite understand it. Funny thing is that it works great. In the beginning the overflow box would keep flushing. Water level got very high in the box and all of a sudden the thing would flush like a toilet until the overflow was empty and siphon gone.

The reason I started closed was because my old tank was setup with a full siphon and knew that the valves were about 1/3 of the way open.

I read through the 140+ pages and eventually it just seems to run together. So many different people wanting to run different ways, etc. I wish I would have know, I would have made the box taller. I still might go back and try and make the standpipes shorter by cutting the T fittings down.

I will open up the open channel and see what happens.

Again, I appreciate the help. Though my system is flawed..it works great :D Not to make it work properly.
 
TheFishMan65 said:
I reread the first post and yep uncle has it right. However, I always thought the open was the secondary back up and the emergency was the third. Meaning the open channel would create a siphon before the emergency took on water. I don't have a tank I can set up this way, but my next will probably do this.

I can not see any advantage or disdvantage to either as long as both can create the backups. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Since this calls for an opinion, based on the setup and operation of the system, rather than "by the book," I would rather BeanAnimal address this.

Jim
 
8mpg said:
Thanks for the reply Jim.. I really appreciate it. I guess this just goes to show even more that I didnt quite understand it. Funny thing is that it works great. In the beginning the overflow box would keep flushing. Water level got very high in the box and all of a sudden the thing would flush like a toilet until the overflow was empty and siphon gone.

The reason I started closed was because my old tank was setup with a full siphon and knew that the valves were about 1/3 of the way open.

I read through the 140+ pages and eventually it just seems to run together. So many different people wanting to run different ways, etc. I wish I would have know, I would have made the box taller. I still might go back and try and make the standpipes shorter by cutting the T fittings down.

I will open up the open channel and see what happens.

Again, I appreciate the help. Though my system is flawed..it works great :D Not to make it work properly.
Click to expand...

One thing that I often do not think about, is that BeanAnimal has the information posted on his website:

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

Since there is no way to comment, the information is direct, straightforward, and without the myriad of comments, and "well I THINK this would not make a difference" or "that would seem simpler" or "this would be cheaper" type of responses that only confuse the issue.

One of the biggest problems, parallel to what you pointed out above, if you have not DONE IT RUN IT, you don't have anything to base an assumption or comment on. It is those comments that cause the most confusion. The one thing that cannot be challenged with "opinion," is that if the system is built, set up, and operated as designed (either on the first page of the original thread, or on BeanAnimals website-- it will work correctly the first time out of the box.

I don't recommend bean's site as much as I should I guess, but i think the thread is important, in that the technical discussions in the thread and similar threads helps the education process. But, they do not change the basic setup and operating characteristics of the system.

In terms of the design and setup of the internal/external C2C type, there was some collaboration between bean and myself, and the idea originally came from another member--near as I can tell. (Volcano1-- due to a "unique issue" with his tank) No claims to originality intended.

Jim
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

AquaticReefTV
DIY Cable management time lapse
Replies
1
Views
530
S|\/|S
S
DjPhato
Overflow and flow-pump location for peninsula
Replies
1
Views
309
Vinny Kreyling
Vinny Kreyling
H
Dry Fit Plumbing Test for 200g, Critique before I glue?
Replies
4
Views
473
Hezamam
H
isseym328
Adding water volume to current set up help
Replies
18
Views
946
JohnL
JohnL
T
220G Tank Setup - Flow/General Advice Needed
2
Replies
23
Views
1K
The Reef Addict
T
Back
Top