Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[cichlidtx]

uncleot6, thanks for the response. The bulkheads are slip/slip. Where should I put the ball valve on the siphon? I've seen some just below the sanitary tee and others just above the sump. Thanks again, I want to make sure I get it right.

 

[uncleof6]

Put it where ever it is easiest to get too. The only time it makes a difference is in the case of a long drop, into a basement, in which case you would want the valve down by the sump. Otherwise it doesn't matter.

 

[reev]

cichlidtx, I did a similar setup with the overflow box inside on my 50G about 2 years back. Soon after I finished I realized that I don't like it much because the box was taking a good amount of space inside the tank. I think it was about 3-4" wide to allow for the elbows and bulkheads to fit in.

Since then I did 2 other setups using this method for a friend of mine and for my new 125G, and in both I used a thin overflow/weir box on the inside (1" wide or so) and the wider overflow box with the elbows and pipes on the outside. # hose have been drilled in the tanks to allow the water to flow from inside the weir into the overflow box.

I also setup the siphon and the open pipes on each side of the overflow box with the elbows pointing down and parallel with the back wall of the tank. The emergency pipe is under the overflow box coming up through a bulkhead and then a straight pipe. This allowed me to make the outside overflow box a bit thinner and not need extra space for the pipes behind the tank.

HTH

 

[afgun]

Had I to do mine over again, I'd do it that way or instead of a weir in the tank, slot the glass.

 

[reev]

Had I to do mine over again, I'd do it that way or instead of a weir in the tank, slot the glass.

Ops. It seems that I used the wrong term.
If "weir" means the overflow box can siphon water over the tank wall, it is NOt what i meant .

I meant that I had built a very thin overflow box that sits inside the tank and covers the 3 holes i made in the back glass allowing only the surface water to go inside the box and in those holes. On the outside there is the full size overflow box with the pipes and the elbows.

Sorry for confusion.

 

[BeanAnimal]

reev,

In this context, the "weir" is whatever the water flows over to reach the standpipes. That is the box wall, the lower edge of a slot in the glass that feeds an external box, etc.

 

[JTL]

I am still having trouble getting the full siphon to start when I restart the pump. I thought it may be an air leak but I think I ruled that out. The gate valve is restricting the flow to the point that the 1 1/4 returns will not start a siphon when they are set to match my flow. The emergency return works like it should. I am using an Eheim 1262 as a return pump. Any suggestions short of getting a return pump with more flow.

 

[RocketSurgeon]

I am still having trouble getting the full siphon to start when I restart the pump. I thought it may be an air leak but I think I ruled that out. The gate valve is restricting the flow to the point that the 1 1/4 returns will not start a siphon when they are set to match my flow. The emergency return works like it should. I am using an Eheim 1262 as a return pump. Any suggestions short of getting a return pump with more flow.

A larger return pump allows for a quicker siphon start, but if it is not starting the siphon all together, a larger pump will not fix that problem, I wouldn't think.

 

[RocketSurgeon]

uncleot6, thanks for the response. The bulkheads are slip/slip. Where should I put the ball valve on the siphon? I've seen some just below the sanitary tee and others just above the sump. Thanks again, I want to make sure I get it right.

I'm moving mine farther down from the t, and I'm swapping it out with a gate valve. the ball valve is too hard to make minuscule adjustments.

 

[teesquare]

Just a thought Rocket Surgeon....I like having a ball valve for the rare need off a quick, and easy "on or off"...
I would not remove the ball valve, but adding the gate valve could be of benefit ( tho I have not needed one to balance quiet flow, I can see where it may be useful)
T

 

[JTL]

A larger return pump allows for a quicker siphon start, but if it is not starting the siphon all together, a larger pump will not fix that problem, I wouldn't think.

That makes sense but I wonder why the syphon works when the gate valve is wide open and not otherwise. There must be a logical solution since so many people are using this system successfully. Mine is sort of useless at this point.

 

[teesquare]

Some pictures would really be helpful in diagnosing where the problem is.
T

 

[JTL]

It is just a Beananimal set up with (3) 1 1/4 return pipes with three 90 degree turns, the primary one has a gate valve the other two do not.

 

[teesquare]

It sounds straight forward enough - but I cannot over emphasize the help that pictures may be to everyone here - in an effort to assist you in solving the problem.

T

 

[reev]

That makes sense but I wonder why the syphon works when the gate valve is wide open and not otherwise. There must be a logical solution since so many people are using this system successfully. Mine is sort of useless at this point.

Initially, I had a similar problem on my latest overflow. I fixed it by making sure that the siphon pipe is barely under the sump water surface during normal operation and by extending the open channel pipe to be about 4-5" under the sump water level. I believe I saw BeanAimal recommending that to a bunch of "pages ago .

 

[uncleof6]

Initially, I had a similar problem on my latest overflow. I fixed it by making sure that the siphon pipe is barely under the sump water surface during normal operation and by extending the open channel pipe to be about 4-5" under the sump water level. I believe I saw BeanAimal recommending that to a bunch of "pages ago .

I'll have to take your word for that... i have not seen that recommended. The one recommendation I have seen is raising the open channel intake a half inch or so above the siphon intake.

 

[teesquare]

Yeah...I don't remember that recommendation either....Seems that by extending the pipe further below the surface of the water, you actually increase the resistance to purge air from it on re-start.....which would potentially over-burden the main siphon, causing the emergency drain to kick in....?
T

 

[JTL]

Simple solution. I raised the open channel which upon inspection was WAY to low, then I noticed the airline tube for the emergency drain was too low as well. The combination did not give the main drain sufficent time to establish a siphon. Thanks Jim and T!

 

[teesquare]

Most welcome JTL!

Best of Luck!

T

 

[TheFishMan65]

JTL - Airline tube for the emergency drain???? Did you mean open?