Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[SkyReef]

sorry if this question's already been answered but can you replace the T's and end-caps for the siphon & emergency with elbows instead?

Cheers!

Hey, Neodama:

I think BeanAnimal addressed this very point early on his posts on this thread, so you might want to check there. Please note, reading his thread from the beginning like a treatise, essay, or text book will yield you great rewards because others have asked him very good questions. It will take some time to read just half of the threads, but the cycling of ideas will strongly reinforce your understanding of Bean's fantastic design.

Now, to answer your question, if I remember those two points correctly, Bean has explained: (1) the elbow presents slightly more resistance to water flow, given its more drastic, sweeping curve, when compared to the sanitary-"tees," which taper more slightly or straightly to the down-turn, allowing a little more water flow; and (2) the open-end of the stand-pipes presents an ability to unscrew the cap and ream out the pipes to clean out any blockage or excessive buildup. The elbows don't give you those options. If I have this incorrectly, please, someone else chime in here. One is always wise to follow Bean's design as much as possible, without re-inventing the plan. He's tested everything, and can vouch for the system. Tinkering here and there starts to take one far afield from the safety of the Bean System.

Good luck!

 

[TheFishMan65]

+1 on Skyreef's memory

 

[othercents]

Hi, OtherCents:

Regarding the 800-gph figure you cite for 1/2" bulkheads + 1" tubes, does that entail allowance for Bean's method of not opening the siphon tube all the way (whereby I would dial it back just a little, to allow the open-channel tube to carry some water)?

My comment about tuning the system with valves is closing the valve to get the correct gph that you want. If you are using a 1" bulkhead with 1.5" downtubes that can generate 2000gph to be only 500gph then you will close the valve more than 75% and have less fine tuning ability. However if you are using a 1/2" bulkhead with 1" downtubes that can generate 800gph to be only 500gph then you are closing the valve less than half the way with a greater ability to fine tune.

If so, then I could probably drill all holes on both tanks 1/2", using 1" standing tubes on the Nano Cube and 3/4" tubes on the BioCube? I'm not sure here. What recommendations would you all make on this? Bean? OtherCents? Anyone? Thanks again! Your knowledge is very helpful.

Yes you can use 1/2" bulkhead on both and use the 3/4" tubes on the BioCube with 1" tubes on the Nano Cube. However I would like BeanAnimal to confirm this since his original suggestion was to use 3/4" bulkhead for the BioCube.

David

 

[marius880]

This thread is huge. It's amazing how many people were helped out by this design!!!!

 

[SkyReef]

+1 on Skyreef's memory

Thanks, Fishman.

 

[SkyReef]

My comment about tuning the system with valves is closing the valve to get the correct gph that you want. If you are using a 1" bulkhead with 1.5" downtubes that can generate 2000gph to be only 500gph then you will close the valve more than 75% and have less fine tuning ability. However if you are using a 1/2" bulkhead with 1" downtubes that can generate 800gph to be only 500gph then you are closing the valve less than half the way with a greater ability to fine tune.



Yes you can use 1/2" bulkhead on both and use the 3/4" tubes on the BioCube with 1" tubes on the Nano Cube. However I would like BeanAnimal to confirm this since his original suggestion was to use 3/4" bulkhead for the BioCube.

David

Thanks, OtherCents, very helpful. I really like what you explained about having more fine-tuning control. That makes good, clear sense! If Bean wants to confirm, as you suggest, that would be great. Although, I think you meant that Bean's original suggestion was to use the 3/4" bulkhead for the NanoCube (I don't think he discussed the BioCube, which I was somewhat vague or silent about, until I just spelled it out now in response to your post.)

So, if Bean would be kind enough to reply: what do you think about OtherCents' idea: 1/2" Bulkhead + 1" tubes on the NanoCube (28-Gallon Tank) and 1/2" Bulkhead + 1" tubes on the BioCube, unless that would be underkill?

Thanks, again, all!

 

[SkyReef]

This thread is huge. It's amazing how many people were helped out by this design!!!!

Hi, Marius:

Too, true! I refer people to Bean's thread here, whenever I get a chance! His gift keeps on giving, and it has helped me immensely. Plus, modifying tanks is more fun now, with such a good plan!

 

[neodama]

I believe those are in place for maintenance issues.

SWEEEET...gotcha! Many thanks!

 

[marius880]

Hi, Marius:

Too, true! I refer people to Bean's thread here, whenever I get a chance! His gift keeps on giving, and it has helped me immensely. Plus, modifying tanks is more fun now, with such a good plan!

i started doing that too... but now its my turn to do this type of overflow...

:idea: i was just thinking, i dont know if it has been asked before, i read lots of pages of this thread and did not see anything about it.

my question. :: i have a 26x26x16 cube acryilic with 3" rim around it. i thought of doing an outside overflow box because i dont have much space inside. ,,, and then i thought... i can drill the tank! and just put in the 90 degrees elbow inside one facing down for syphoning and one facing up for the emergency..(slightly above water level)

WOULD THIS WORK??? i want to make this as simple as possible.. and i would cover both openings with a mesh...

if this has been asked please give me the page number of the thread. i wil read into it.

 

[TheFishMan65]

Only if you have a big sump. Without a wir the tank will drain to the bottom of the siphon. So in your example the down turned elbow.

 

[marius880]

Only if you have a big sump. Without a wir the tank will drain to the bottom of the siphon. So in your example the down turned elbow.

i have a big sump... its in the basement.. so the drain goes about 12' down through the floor... so its gonna work =?

 

[othercents]

i have a big sump... its in the basement.. so the drain goes about 12' down through the floor... so its gonna work =?

Yes but the results will not be what you expect. When the siphon breaks your tank will overflow and when the power goes out then the siphon will drain the tank. You have to build an overflow box and use all 3 pipes as they were designed. If you want to use only two then use two up turned pipes as your overflow. It won't be silent, but at least it it won't drain your tank. Make sure you sump can handle the 12' of water in the pipes.

 

[bad santa]

i am testing this design right now, but i have a question. I can get the system to run smoothly and silent but when i shut down to test the restart capabillities it wont purge the air. All of the pipes are glued except for the bottom 10" pipes that go into the sump. If i remove the bottom drain pipe from the siphon pipe slightly to purge the air everything works great. Do the bottom pipes need to be glued also?

 

[uncleof6]

i am testing this design right now, but i have a question. I can get the system to run smoothly and silent but when i shut down to test the restart capabillities it wont purge the air. All of the pipes are glued except for the bottom 10" pipes that go into the sump. If i remove the bottom drain pipe from the siphon pipe slightly to purge the air everything works great. Do the bottom pipes need to be glued also?

Yup, the pipes need to be glued. The siphon failing to start can be due to a number of issues. The siphon discharge should be just below the water line in the sump, not more than an inch. There are a couple other possible issues but lets work with that one first. (Some of the other issues have been detailed here in the last several pages or so.) The siphon needs to be sealed from top to bottom. Air entering the siphon line will prevent it from fully starting. The depth of the discharge affects how much pressure needs to be overcome to purge all the air out of the line. The discharge can be out of the water, but for silence, it needs to be submerged just a little bit.

The other issues involve the relative heights of the standpipes to each other, and the height of the air inlet for the open channel.

 

[SkyReef]

Can't Find 3/4" PVC Sanitary-Tee

Can't Find 3/4" PVC Sanitary-Tee

Hey, all.

I've had a very tough time finding plumbing fittings to make Bean's design work on a 3/4" setup. The latest difficulty is finding a 3/4"-inch Sanitary-Tee. I have spent hours online, with no luck. I'm thinking I will be forced to buy a larger Sanitary-Tee, and use reducers/bushings to make it fit back into the 3/4" scheme.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[bad santa]

Hey, all.

I've had a very tough time finding plumbing fittings to make Bean's design work on a 3/4" setup. The latest difficulty is finding a 3/4"-inch Sanitary-Tee. I have spent hours online, with no luck. I'm thinking I will be forced to buy a larger Sanitary-Tee, and use reducers/bushings to make it fit back into the 3/4" scheme.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

nobody makes a sanitary tee in 3/4", it only comes in sizes 1 1/2" and larger diameters. You can use 90deg in 3/4" if your system in small

 

[TheFishMan65]

They don't make them in less than 1 1/4, IIRC. Use a regular T.

 

[uncleof6]

Hey, all.

I've had a very tough time finding plumbing fittings to make Bean's design work on a 3/4" setup. The latest difficulty is finding a 3/4"-inch Sanitary-Tee. I have spent hours online, with no luck. I'm thinking I will be forced to buy a larger Sanitary-Tee, and use reducers/bushings to make it fit back into the 3/4" scheme.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

They do not make sanitary tees smaller than 1.5". It does not matter to the function of the system anyway, not exactly true--but close enough. All due respect to bean, and others, but I would not waste my time with 3/4" plumbing on a marine system. It will plug up far to easy. Yeah this is a failsafe system, but why ask for problems whether they are accounted for or not........... A small enough tank maybe but 1/2"? forget it :lolspin:

 

[bad santa]

Yup, the pipes need to be glued. The siphon failing to start can be due to a number of issues. The siphon discharge should be just below the water line in the sump, not more than an inch. There are a couple other possible issues but lets work with that one first. (Some of the other issues have been detailed here in the last several pages or so.) The siphon needs to be sealed from top to bottom. Air entering the siphon line will prevent it from fully starting. The depth of the discharge affects how much pressure needs to be overcome to purge all the air out of the line. The discharge can be out of the water, but for silence, it needs to be submerged just a little bit.

The other issues involve the relative heights of the standpipes to each other, and the height of the air inlet for the open channel.

thanks uncleof6. I thought i had read that the pipes had to be 2" below the water line so therefore i had cut my down pipe 2" below the water line. I didnt want to glue the final piece in until i had it all dialed in. Ill go ahead and cut it to 1" and glue it and hopefully ill have better luck.

Another question, can i put ptfe on the down pipe and connect it to the 90 degree elbow instead of glueing it together? I believe that would still make a sealed connection where no air would leak through, but i could be wong.

 

[uncleof6]

thanks uncleof6. I thought i had read that the pipes had to be 2" below the water line so therefore i had cut my down pipe 2" below the water line. I didnt want to glue the final piece in until i had it all dialed in. Ill go ahead and cut it to 1" and glue it and hopefully ill have better luck.

Another question, can i put ptfe on the down pipe and connect it to the 90 degree elbow instead of glueing it together? I believe that would still make a sealed connection where no air would leak through, but i could be wong.

People accuse me of being too abrupt, so I will prove it--snickers..... forget the tape and glue it!!!!! I would get rid of the 90 and use 45s anyway--but would still glue them. Tape is for threads--- well that is debatable also opposed to Teflon paste, but that is another tale of woe.......