Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[bad santa]

no worries unc. I was going to glue it tonight but i left the can of glue open in the afternoon and now the glue is all thick. I guess ill have to wait till tomorrow to go to HD for yet another run.

 

[SkyReef]

They do not make sanitary tees smaller than 1.5". It does not matter to the function of the system anyway, not exactly true--but close enough. All due respect to bean, and others, but I would not waste my time with 3/4" plumbing on a marine system. It will plug up far to easy. Yeah this is a failsafe system, but why ask for problems whether they are accounted for or not........... A small enough tank maybe but 1/2"? forget it :lolspin:

Thanks for your insight, UnCleof. I've already ordered the elbows and bulkheads and true-union valves for the 3/4" system, based on the discussion in the last few pages. The tank is a 28-gal. and the other is a 14-gal. The exception to the 3/4" system will be the 1" open-line. You think I'm asking for trouble with the smaller plumbing? Hmm. Not sure if I can cancel the orders I placed already. Would 1" plumbing make that much difference? Bean has emphatically ruled out a 1.5" plumbing on such a small tank.

Thanks.

 

[uncleof6]

Thanks for your insight, UnCleof. I've already ordered the elbows and bulkheads and true-union valves for the 3/4" system, based on the discussion in the last few pages. The tank is a 28-gal. and the other is a 14-gal. The exception to the 3/4" system will be the 1" open-line. You think I'm asking for trouble with the smaller plumbing? Hmm. Not sure if I can cancel the orders I placed already. Would 1" plumbing make that much difference? Bean has emphatically ruled out a 1.5" plumbing on such a small tank.

Thanks.

It is just my experience and opinion talking. Stuff grows inside the pipes, and more stuff collects. And what would not plug a 1" may plug a 3/4". As far as flow and function, it will work fine... but I still see a 3/4" durso as not practical and so does Richard Durso. The 1.25" open channel would work to your advantage. But bean's system scales well: because the flow through the open channel is fractional compared to the siphon. I also ruled out the use of 1.5" plumbing on this tank--before bean did I think.....

"Over kill is ok sometimes, but this is a case of extreme over kill unless you are planning to run above 2500 gph through your nano tank."


Charlotte Pipe and Foundry does make a 1.25" sanitary tee, so I stand corrected. Speers does not. I won't use anything but speers or charlotte fittings. Call it whatever you would like (unless it is a demo assembly for photos here on RC.)

 

[SkyReef]

It is just my experience and opinion talking. Stuff grows inside the pipes, and more stuff collects. And what would not plug a 1" may plug a 3/4". As far as flow and function, it will work fine... but I still see a 3/4" durso as not practical and so does Richard Durso. The 1.25" open channel would work to your advantage. But bean's system scales well: because the flow through the open channel is fractional compared to the siphon. I also ruled out the use of 1.5" plumbing on this tank--before bean did I think.....

"Over kill is ok sometimes, but this is a case of extreme over kill unless you are planning to run above 2500 gph through your nano tank."


Charlotte Pipe and Foundry does make a 1.25" sanitary tee, so I stand corrected. Speers does not. I won't use anything but speers or charlotte fittings. Call it whatever you would like (unless it is a demo assembly for photos here on RC.)

Hi, Uncleof:

Yes, you are correct! Thanks for advising me first not to go with 1.5" on the 28-gallon & 14-gallon cubes. I can return all the crap I ordered online, the bulkheads, the street ells, and the true-union ball valves. No worries. But I won't be able to undrill the holes, once I drill them tomorrow. What would your final recommendation be? I'm happy to drill 1" bulkheads, scale up to 1.25 or 1.5 standing tubes, or just keep it all 1". I don't have any strong committment to drill 3/4" holes, and it's all the same to me. Assuming that 1.5" bulkheads are out of the question per you and Bean, what size would you drill these tanks?

Thanks for your great advice!

 

[othercents]

All due respect to bean, and others, but I would not waste my time with 3/4" plumbing on a marine system. It will plug up far to easy.

How often will they plug up when only pulling 600gph?

 

[uncleof6]

Hi, Uncleof:

Yes, you are correct! Thanks for advising me first not to go with 1.5" on the 28-gallon & 14-gallon cubes. I can return all the crap I ordered online, the bulkheads, the street ells, and the true-union ball valves. No worries. But I won't be able to undrill the holes, once I drill them tomorrow. What would your final recommendation be? I'm happy to drill 1" bulkheads, scale up to 1.25 or 1.5 standing tubes, or just keep it all 1". I don't have any strong committment to drill 3/4" holes, and it's all the same to me. Assuming that 1.5" bulkheads are out of the question per you and Bean, what size would you drill these tanks?

Thanks for your great advice!

3/4" will handle the flow rate. Myself I would use 1" bulkheads, 1" siphon and dry emergency, and a 1.25" open channel. In any case, I would not go below 1" pipe and 1" bulkheads, for reasons stated. You could try a 1" open channel and see how it does for you, or even SDR-21 (class 200) in 1" would give a slight advantage. Would be fairly simple to upgrade to a 1.25" open channel on the 1" bulkhead if for some reason you had a noise or other issue with the 1" open channel. But I can't find a good enough reason to go any larger than that. I am not trying to up your flow rate, just get you more room inside the pipe and keep it quiet. This is an opinion based on my experience.

 

[uncleof6]

How often will they plug up when only pulling 600gph?

Well it is true that the inside diameter of the pipe directly affects the flow capacity of the pipe. It is also true that the smaller the diameter the less the flow capacity will be, and conversely, the larger the diameter the higher the flow capacity.

So it can safely be said, that if over time the inside diameter of the pipe decreases, (due to growth) then over time the flow capacity will decrease. It can also be said that if the inside diameter reduces to zero, due to FOD, or a combination of growth and FOD, the drain will plug and flow capacity will be reduced to zero.

From this we can see that the propensity of a drain line to plug is related to the inner diameter of the pipe and what gets in it, rather than the flow rate it is pulling.

 

[othercents]

Well it is true that the inside diameter of the pipe directly affects the flow capacity of the pipe. It is also true that the smaller the diameter the less the flow capacity will be, and conversely, the larger the diameter the higher the flow capacity.

So it can safely be said, that if over time the inside diameter of the pipe decreases, (due to growth) then over time the flow capacity will decrease. It can also be said that if the inside diameter reduces to zero, due to FOD, or a combination of growth and FOD, the drain will plug and flow capacity will be reduced to zero.

From this we can see that the propensity of a drain line to plug is related to the inner diameter of the pipe and what gets in it, rather than the flow rate it is pulling.

So what your saying is your not exactly sure and regardless of the size pipe everyone should do maintenance on the pipe to keep the growth down to a minimum.

 

[bad santa]

ok, today i glued my last piece of my siphon and have the "beananimal system" running. I have shut down the power several times and started up the pump and everything seem to fully equalize in about 1 1/2 min, it starts silently equalizing at about 45-50 seconds. Is that about normal from other peoples experience?
On another note i am noticing a small amount of bubbles exiting the siphon pipe while its running, is this normal or do i have an air leak?

 

[uncleof6]

ok, today i glued my last piece of my siphon and have the "beananimal system" running. I have shut down the power several times and started up the pump and everything seem to fully equalize in about 1 1/2 min, it starts silently equalizing at about 45-50 seconds. Is that about normal from other peoples experience?
On another note i am noticing a small amount of bubbles exiting the siphon pipe while its running, is this normal or do i have an air leak?

Yes you most likely have an air leak in the siphon line. There should not be any bubbles at all.

 

[uncleof6]

So what your saying is your not exactly sure and regardless of the size pipe everyone should do maintenance on the pipe to keep the growth down to a minimum.

So what I was saying in response to this question:

"How often will they plug up when only pulling 600gph?"

is that the flow rate has nothing to do with how often the drain will plug up.

 

[reefermad619]

I have shut down the power several times and started up the pump and everything seem to fully equalize in about 1 1/2 min, it starts silently equalizing at about 45-50 seconds. Is that about normal from other peoples experience?
QUOTE]

Once my water goes into the overflow, it equalizes in <=20 seconds.

 

[SkyReef]

So what I was saying in response to this question:

"How often will they plug up when only pulling 600gph?"

is that the flow rate has nothing to do with how often the drain will plug up.

UnCleof, thanks for your suggestion on specific bulkhead and fitting sizes, above.

Bean's design with the caps on the standpipes allows for cleaning out the pipes, to prevent the build-up of which UnCleof discusses. Presuming that one were to do that, I suspect that UnCleof's concerns will still stand, based on the happenstance of a sudden plug-up that can occur, even with good pipe-cleaning maintenance.

Bean's concern was the unsightliness of 1.5" bulkheads and 90-degree ells in the flow box. Bean did say that 1.0" would work, and suggested maybe pushing it down to 3/4 on the siphon and emergency pipes, and 1" on the open-channel pipe.

OtherCents' thoughts on the lower end of the suggestion, the 3/4 suggestion, is good for better flow-control of the true-union ball valve; too large a diameter of drain line in the siphon tube would require closing the valve to more than half its close position.

To gain a perspective on the bulkhead dimensions of the original tank, as JBJ manufactured it, the Nano Cube originally came stock with 1/2" bulkheads through the partition wall. Thus, the low-end 3/4" modification would be a 50% increase in bulkhead size on the original design. The 1" modification design would be a 100% increase in size on the original design.

Sheesh, I don't know--you all have good points. I guess reasonable minds will have to differ on this point. Maybe I'll just flip a coin. Maybe Bean will weigh in one more time, to address OtherCents and UnCleofs' concerns?

 

[BeanAnimal]

THe 3/4" bulkheads for siphon and emergency will be fine for low flow. That said, why not go with threaded 1" bulkheads for all (3) and then you can play with the standpipe sizes. a 3/4" siphon and a 3/4" emergency can be tried. The open channel will still likely need to be 1" to operate silently.

 

[golf nut]

To gain a perspective on the bulkhead dimensions of the original tank, as JBJ manufactured it, the Nano Cube originally came stock with 1/2" bulkheads through the partition wall. Thus, the low-end 3/4" modification would be a 50% increase in bulkhead size on the original design. The 1" modification design would be a 100% increase in size on the original design.

Thus, the low-end 3/4" modification would be a 100% increase in bulkhead size on the original design. The 1" modification design would be a 200% increase in size on the original design.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Hiya Paul

Any progress on my jet turbine powered backpack?

 

[SkyReef]

Thus, the low-end 3/4" modification would be a 100% increase in bulkhead size on the original design. The 1" modification design would be a 200% increase in size on the original design.

Hi, Golf: come back on that math? .75 inch is .25 more than .50 inch, or 50% of .50 inch, which equals a 50% increase. For a 1" modificaiton, that would be .50 inch more than the original design, which 100% of .50 inch, and that equals a 100% increase. I think.

 

[SkyReef]

THe 3/4" bulkheads for siphon and emergency will be fine for low flow. That said, why not go with threaded 1" bulkheads for all (3) and then you can play with the standpipe sizes. a 3/4" siphon and a 3/4" emergency can be tried. The open channel will still likely need to be 1" to operate silently.

Hi, Bean: Thanks for your suggestion; yes, I think it would be a low-flow system: the water goes into a sump, where it mixes with water also fed by a side-by-side refugium. I'm not sure of any enhanced need to make it high-flow. But then again, I'm not very educated on the point.

I have a question about your suggestion regarding my possible use of "threaded 1" bulkheads," instead of the bulkhead design used in your original design. In your original design, the bulkhead-type you use is a slip/slip bulkhead, where: (1) the flange side (a slip) receives the spigot-end of the street ell; and (2) the base side of the flange (also a slip) receives the pvc on the outside of the tank that seques into the sanitary-tee assembly. When you say "threaded 1" bulkheads, are you changing your original design in this regard? If so, which fittings thread in to the bulkhead--is it threaded on both sides of the bulkhead? Sorry for the newbie question, but I'm not sure what your vision is in this particular, threaded-bulkhead design, and the benefits of doing so.

Thanks!

 

[golf nut]

Hi, Golf: come back on that math? .75 inch is .25 more than .50 inch, or 50% of .50 inch, which equals a 50% increase. For a 1" modificaiton, that would be .50 inch more than the original design, which 100% of .50 inch, and that equals a 100% increase. I think.

You need to find the area of the openings, you would need four 1/2 pipes to handle the volume of water going through a 1 inch pipe.

do the Pi x R squared trick.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Sky,

The design is a functional model. the actual details of the parts used matter little (within reason). I suggested threaded bulkheads so that you could play around with diffferent sized standpipes. A threaded bulkhead by be slightly more restrictive due to the slightly smaller ID of threaded fittings, but otherwise functuon the same.

You may be able to find a bulkhead threaded on the nut side and slip on the flange side. I have a few but have no idea where I got them.

Threading a street-ell onto the inside is certainly possible, but you will have to ensure proper clearance.