Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[joegoersch]

Flow Rates at Low End

Flow Rates at Low End

BeanAnimal-again thank you for your seemingly limitless patience and helpful suggestions. I've been reading this thread from the start for days and haven't made it through yet, but learning the whole time !

I'm in the process of designing a 120 gallon DT with a 30 gallon refugium/sump. I expect flow rates will be around 400 gph with a mag 5. I read how the system as you described it will handle flow in the range of 700-1200 gph +. My question is at the lower end. Will the system as you originally describe handle lower flow rates, say 300-500 gph ? I'd like to maintain the possiblity of going to higher flows, but want it to work at the lower flow rates. Any need to use all 1' tubing ?

Thanks again !:fish1:

 

[symon_say]

Thanks a lot Bean for this great idea, mine is working really nice and i can here my freshwater tank more than i can hear my saltwater tank standing next to it.

Thanks a lot.

 

[crossleymarko]

ok so i got all my parts,, a couple of questions, the air check valve is this necsscary ar can i use just an air line in the partial siphon. would my valve on the full siphon be better near the sump in the room adjacent (other side of a wall). im only putting a valve on the full siphon and return pump is this ok...

thanks all

can anyone help

 

[Newbie Aquarist]

I just a 475+ gallon tank and I want to convert it to a Bean Animal overflow. Here is a current picture of the overflow. It is a center overflow. Here is a picture of the tank.

Here is a picture of the center overflow.

It currently has 2 ea 2" drains and 2 ea 1" returns. Can it be done? Your help is greatly appreciated.

 

[TheFishMan65]

What is your expected flow rate and what will the water drop be to the sump. The 1 inch might work as the emergency, but I depends on flow and drop.

 

[Newbie Aquarist]

What is your expected flow rate and what will the water drop be to the sump. The 1 inch might work as the emergency, but I depends on flow and drop.

5 feet at the most. I had planned on using the hybrid dart with the 3600 gallon upgrade needle wheel. Unless you think I should go bigger.

 

[mc-cro]

ok so i got all my parts,, a couple of questions, the air check valve is this necsscary ar can i use just an air line in the partial siphon. would my valve on the full siphon be better near the sump in the room adjacent (other side of a wall). im only putting a valve on the full siphon and return pump is this ok...

thanks all

The air check valve is not necessary. You can just use some airline tubing, secure the open end of it at the highest water level you want before the 3rd line(emergency) kicks in. When (if) the water level reaches the open end, it will close off and create a full siphon.

The gate valve, especially at lower flow rates, is best at the sump end on the full siphon.

Yes, you really only need a valve on the return and the full siphon.

My tank is temporarily set up with a small return pump, and I am probably only getting 200gph turnover and it is working just fine.

 

[mc-cro]

5 feet at the most. I had planned on using the hybrid dart with the 3600 gallon upgrade needle wheel. Unless you think I should go bigger.

absolutely you can make it work. I would probably use the 2" for the full siphon, the second 2" as a the partial, and the 1" as the emergency.

I would also use standpipes for the partial and emergency in the overflow. I would just put a strainer in the full siphon and leave it at the bottom, no chance of air being sucked in that far down. Raising the partial overflow up toward the top will allow the water level to be higher reducing the noise from the water falling down into the overflow.

 

[BowieReefer84]

First I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. I have created two sketches in excel, and would appreciate any feedback. Drain would be 1.1/2" and return would be 3/4". Assume tank display of 120gal and sump of 40gal. I am pretty happy with the sump, and am just including it to show the position of the drain lines (1" below water) and have the gate valve low down as possible.


overflow #1 by mteske1, on Flickr


sump design #1 by mteske1, on Flickr

Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[TheFishMan65]

If use the hybrid dart (assuming I found the right chart) at 5 feet of head it will pump 2850 gallons per hours. According to the BeanAnimal flow rate calculator a inch pipe (1 inch pipes are actually slightly less) will ony flow 2636 gallons per hour.

So if you had a complete blockage of the siphon and open you could end up with a flood. Unlikely, but I would recommend more head for the pump, more vertical height for the siphon, or choke back the pump. maybe a combination of all three.

 

[mc-cro]

bowie reefer, the only thing I see is that I would not put a standpipe on the main siphon.

I would attach the strainer right to the bulkhead. If you have it high like that, it has a higher chance of creating vortex and sucking in air.

 

[TheFishMan65]

Bowie,

I asked the same question a while back (no picture) about using just pipes and did not get an answer. I don't see why it won't work, but the open may be a little noisier than if covered. I would think the siphon would be easier to form since the air has a better escape route.

But let's see what others say.

 

[mc-cro]

^that is another thing to consider, I would put an elbow on the secondary.

The 3rd doesnt neccessarily need it, as there really should not be any water in it anyways, and you probably would want to hear it if it did start flowing water.

 

[BowieReefer84]

bowie reefer, the only thing I see is that I would not put a standpipe on the main siphon.

I would attach the strainer right to the bulkhead. If you have it high like that, it has a higher chance of creating vortex and sucking in air.

Thank you. I am not sure there would be enough room in the sump if I had only a strainer on the main siphon. The scale in my drawing is clearly off, but I would lower it sufficiently beneath the open channel. Good idea on putting a 90 on the open. That would help smooth the path for the extra 5%+/- of water not drained by the full siphon.

Would you use a slip / slip bulkhead with the standpipes just pushed into the slip, and the drains glued on the bottom? I always wonder what bulkheads to get for my application...

 

[mc-cro]

I always forget about sump space on power off. I use a 100g rubbermaid in the basement and have plenty of room.

I try to use slips on the inside of an overflow. I personally never glue anything inside the overflow. You want them to be removable for cleaning, changing, mods, or even chasing the errant fish that went over the wall.

 

[crossleymarko]

so if my sump is on the other side of a wall(another room) would you put a 135deg bend on and take it through the wall as high as poss after the swept tee off course.

 

[TheFishMan65]

+1 don't glue inside the overflow only the outside

 

[Barfly]

Bowie,

I asked the same question a while back (no picture) about using just pipes and did not get an answer. I don't see why it won't work, but the open may be a little noisier than if covered. I would think the siphon would be easier to form since the air has a better escape route.

But let's see what others say.

I have a 125g peninsula style with the overflow on the right side. The drain lines go straight down to the sump. The pipes in the overflow box are all straight with no elbows. Works like a charm. All pipes are 1" and I use this ...
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1611/Mesh-Tubes-Plastic

to put over the siphon and open drains. It slips right over the pvc pipe.

HTH

 

[crossleymarko]

hope this explains through wall

 

[crossleymarko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw0VHLHf9FQ&feature=related

how does this work with 2 upturned elbows.. is this better

cheers