Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Dotterer]

And I do greatly appreciate the help.

 

[uncleof6]

There is a difference - on an external overflow the bulkhead occurs AFTER the tee, not before. With Bean's original design, there is a vertical bulkhead, where the restriction (the 1") occurs prior to the T. In an external, there is a horizontal bulkhead, that the drop pipe comes up through, and the tee is inside the box, not outside.

Yes I know where the bulkhead is. I did a bit of the leg work for the internal/external setup when it first popped up.

So yes, Bean went for a 1.25" > 1" > 1.5"

But an External would be

1.25" > 1.5"
. . . . . . |
. . . . . . V
. . . . . . 1.5"

Where the Bold/Italic is the bulkhead. (hopefully my formatting here works)

I don't understand why you would want to restrict the flow after tee in this manner. It would basically turn then 1.5" drop in the original design into a 1"
pipe.

No. The 1" bulkhead turns the whole thing into a 1" drain. As it does in Bean's system. The pipe size (1.25" and 1.5") merely reduces the friction loss, it will flow more at a given drop, than it would using 1" pipe--because there is less friction loss. At any rate a 1" bulkhead will *not* flow more than 1660 gph with a 24" drop, if you use 1.5" pipe--or 10" pipe. Don't see why that is so hard to understand, and don't see what you are hoping to accomplish with the 1.5" bulkhead. You could use 1" pipe for the elbow and tee, (sanitary tee is not necessary) go through a 1" bulkhead, and the rest of the drop 1", (with a 24" drop) and hit 1200 gph. (--better if the drop is longer) The 1.25" and 1.5" pipe minimize the friction loss, and allow the drain to flow a bit more.


So if you would prefer a system, that may have a starting issue using a 1.5" bulkhead with a flow capacity near 3100+ gph, for a system that only needs 1250 gph give or take, and have to crank the valve darn near closed to get the system to balance, go for it. (consider that carefully.) Good luck.

 

[Dotterer]

The 1" bulkhead turns the whole thing into a 1" drain. As it does in Bean's system.

My question is, if you put a 1" elbow, it turns the whole thing into a 1" drain also, yes?

The 1.25" and 1.5" pipe minimize the friction loss, and allow the drain to flow a bit more.

That's why I was thinking the 1.5" bulkhead.

1. It makes it a more simple connection. Pipe up, through the bulkhead and into the T.
2. It leaves a 1.5" hole, and make it simple to increase flow above that 1" restriction in the future, by just removing the reducer to 1", and replacing it with a 1.5" elbow
3. It keeps the restriction near the beginining (most like the original design), which I would think would help avoid starting issues
4. the 1.5" bulkhead keeps that friction loss on the drop as high as possible

 

[chevignons]

Hi Bean:

Can you help me with my set up, I really like your Overflow Method !!!!

I have a 65 Gallons Rimless Tank ( 36" L x 18" D x 24" H )
I have drilled 3 Holes ( 3.75" from the Top edge of the tank to the center of the Hole )
I make a Glass Overflow Box (3 sides) 17" L x 4" D x 5.5' H
I use 1" Bulkhead, 1" Pipe
I ues Eheim 1262 Return Pump
I have the following question:

(1) Where do I install the Overflow Box ? in order to make the water level like 1" near the Top edge of the tank ? any other recommendation for the water level ? too high ?

Thanks !

 

[uncleof6]

Hi Bean:

Can you help me with my set up, I really like your Overflow Method !!!!

I have a 65 Gallons Rimless Tank ( 36" L x 18" D x 24" H )
I have drilled 3 Holes ( 3.75" from the Top edge of the tank to the center of the Hole )
I make a Glass Overflow Box (3 sides) 17" L x 4" D x 5.5' H
I use 1" Bulkhead, 1" Pipe
I ues Eheim 1262 Return Pump
I have the following question:

(1) Where do I install the Overflow Box ? in order to make the water level like 1" near the Top edge of the tank ? any other recommendation for the water level ? too high ?

Thanks !

Top edge of the weir, ~1.25" down from the top of the glass. Depending on flow rate, length of the weir, etc, the water level behind the weir could be .25" above the weir. (more or less.) I run my rimless tanks with the water ~1" down from the top edge of the glass. That may be too close for comfort for some however.

Just for fun, there are far better pumps than the Eheim, and the mag drives for that matter.

 

[chevignons]

Top edge of the weir, ~1.25" down from the top of the glass. Depending on flow rate, length of the weir, etc, the water level behind the weir could be .25" above the weir. (more or less.) I run my rimless tanks with the water ~1" down from the top edge of the glass. That may be too close for comfort for some however.

Just for fun, there are far better pumps than the Eheim, and the mag drives for that matter.

Thanks for your info, very helpful !!!!

I also got a Mag 7, is it better ? any other brand you like ?

 

[uncleof6]

My question is, if you put a 1" elbow, it turns the whole thing into a 1" drain also, yes?

Yes. The smallest diameter determines the flow capability. (along with the length of the drop) The rest is a matter of friction loss.

That's why I was thinking the 1.5" bulkhead.

1. It makes it a more simple connection. Pipe up, through the bulkhead and into the T.
2. It leaves a 1.5" hole, and make it simple to increase flow above that 1" restriction in the future, by just removing the reducer to 1", and replacing it with a 1.5" elbow
3. It keeps the restriction near the beginining (most like the original design), which I would think would help avoid starting issues
4. the 1.5" bulkhead keeps that friction loss on the drop as high as possible

The 1.5" (and larger) keeps the friction loss to the minimum, not as high as possible. I don't see many people increasing the flow rate, after a tank is set up and running. Yours is a 125, which isn't an ideal footprint, so there may be an advantage to increasing above your 1250 target. Personally, I don't think it really matters where the restriction is, because the more significant restriction will be the valve, and that is put anywhere between the tee and the sump, in some cases it is best as close to the sump as possible.

It is hard to evaluate the starting issue, as I said it is anecdotal. But there have been a few complaints on it, and there could well be something to it. I don't set up tanks with 1", my flow rates are above 2000 gph, with relatively short drops--2' - 4', have a lot of 1.5" bulkheads in use, and haven't had any starting issues. I am not really of a mind, however, to slow one down to find out either.

 

[Dotterer]

Thanks, Uncle. That helps. (and for correcting the high/low typo!)

 

[Fish Bowl]

After skimming a majority of the thread over late nights, I don't think I noticed an answer to a question I had so I will ask it now.

I recently acquired a brand new 240 gallon and have the option of getting it drilled and fitted with a full coast to coast with originally 1 inch holes that are at least 3 inches apart.
Some details that might be helpful: The tank is 96x24x25 and will be another FOWLR and will be on a 36in high stand.
I plan on using a Sicce Syncra 5.0 which pushes out 1321 gph (which at 5? ft of headloss, will drop rather significantly but should still be fine for a 1 in bulkhead w/1.5 fittings)
Now the primary question is, would it be okay to increase the size of the holes and close it down partially via gate valve incase I plan on getting a bigger pump in the future? or would it be unwise to do so for whatever reason that it may be.

 

[chevignons]

Does anybody know:

(1) what's the different between:

1" Bulkhead 1" Pipe & 1" Bulkhead & 1.5" Pipe

(2) where I can buy the John Guest Airline fitting ? Homedepot ? Lowes ? or something else instead ?

Thanks !

 

[BigCity]

I just ordered a new AGE 300g tank with 4-holes for 1.5" bulkheads. I had thought about doing 2 returns one for refugium and one for main drain. It will have a coast to coast external overflow and I plan on running a reeflo dart return pump. Will the 1.5" pipe be sufficient for 1500gph flow?

 

[uncleof6]

Does anybody know:

(1) what's the different between:

1" Bulkhead 1" Pipe & 1" Bulkhead & 1.5" Pipe

(2) where I can buy the John Guest Airline fitting ? Homedepot ? Lowes ? or something else instead ?

Thanks !

1) 1" bulkhead will flow a set amount at a given length of drop. For instant, with a 24" drop, it will flow around 1660 gph. In 1" pipe, due to friction loss, 1200 gph would not be unexpected. With 1.5" pipe the friction loss would be way less, and you could expect a higher flow rate, perhaps 1400 - 1500 gph, through the bulkhead, but not more than the max theoretical of 1666.94 gph. (simple application of Bernoulli's equation.) With a longer drop the numbers would go up. These numbers are just a rough estimate. There are a lot of variables.

2) This is my source for JG fittings:

http://www.h2odistributors.com/fittings-kits-and-tubing.asp

Painless to do business with them.

You can get Chinese knockoffs of JG fittings at Lowes, HD, and most Big Box hardware stores, but they are truly garbage for anything serious. It is for you to decide.

 

[chevignons]

Uncle:

Thank you for your info !!!!

 

[jmpreef]

Somewhere in this thread, somebody regretted placing the vertical part of the overflow glass on top of the bottom glass. Seeing the bottom edge did not look good from the front. It's better to overlap the bottom, hiding the edge completely.

So Thank You for the little tips as well as the major tips. It looks great on my new, drilled, tank with a cut glass coast-2-coast overflow.

With that in mind.....
Install the bulkheads and 90's before you silicone the front panel in place. You may not have enough room to insert the 90's into the bulkheads once the front overflow panel is in place.

Don't ask....

 

[BeanAnimal]

You can trim off part of the elbow (the male flange that fits into the bulkhead) to reduce the clearance needed.

 

[chevignons]

2.75' to the edge of the hole, as you have drawn, would be 3.625" to the hole center which is in between the two figures I gave. (3.25" - 4.25".) 2.75" to the center of the hole, would place your dry emergency inlet above the top of the overflow weir...





The original recommendation, concerning the starting issue you are trying to prevent by lowering the siphon, was raising the open channel ~ 1/2" give or take.....

Hi Uncle:

May I ask :

Why the middle standpipe is higher than the rest of the 2 standpipes ?

I am working on my tank now, just want to make sure everything is right, thanks !

 

[uncleof6]

It is a larger pipe size, and the fittings are larger. The bulkhead is at the same level as the others, and the same size (1".) Helps with the open channel as 1" does not work very well.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I just ordered a new AGE 300g tank with 4-holes for 1.5" bulkheads. I had thought about doing 2 returns one for refugium and one for main drain. It will have a coast to coast external overflow and I plan on running a reeflo dart return pump. Will the 1.5" pipe be sufficient for 1500gph flow?

1.5" holes or 1.5" bulkheads?

The system (as designed) is capable of 1500 GPH.

 

[BigCity]

1.5" holes or 1.5" bulkheads?

Sorry, didn't realize how unclear the question was originally. Should I run 1.5" pipe throughout the system to the sump or should I stick with adapting it to 1" as the design calls out? I think I've changed my mind to tap off the return for the refugium, but if I ever need more flow I could always connect the 4th pipe and run that to the refugium as dual returns.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The original designed used 1" bulkheads and 1.5" pipe. The 1" bulkheads were already there, as the intent was to use (3) dursos.... The failure of the dursos to perform quietly is what led me to design a better mousetrap. The system ran with 1" pipe, but the open channel was not as quiet or stable as I had wished, so I rebuilt the standpipes with 1.5" pipe.

If it were me, I would simply push all 1500 GPH through the refugium.... I had a "low flow" refugium for many years and really saw no benefit from the low flow. In fact the low flow turned it into a detritus trap.